2018 Red Sox cheating scandal

[jung]

Here's the thing: when the Sox got caught with the watch, Manfred said there would be punishment the next time.

 

You don't double up and say, okay, now I'm going to punish you for the first time too.

 

A warning is a warning.

 

We'll see what he does.

 

Good luck proving a harsher penalty for the Sox springs from that first offense. Cora has not even as yet been penalized for his part in Houston. So Cora is going to end up with Houston plus 2018 Sox. That should be a boatload of grief for him just in that.

 

As for penalties to the team, what are we really talking about here. That Manfred would go to three draft picks lost and $10M because of the 1st offense. Not likely. Most likely, the same team penalties that Houston got.

 

I don't believe the Sox get any mileage or any "credit" for not incorporating the trash can signaling into their system. Seems to me, the case can ne made that Cora just became a smarter criminal.

[moonslav59]

Fiers is the only identified squealer at this point. I imagine it was a very difficult thing for him to do.

 

One has to wonder, if Cora (or Hinch) told on other teams while being questioned.

[moonslav59]

Hinch took a baseball bat to the monitor on 2 different occasions to let his players know he was not in favor of the elctronic sign stealing and he still got a 1 year ban and fired by the owner.

WTF was apparently the architect of both the Houston scheme and the Red Sox scheme. to think he wont be more severely punished by Manfred is illogical.

As first time sign stealers via electronic means the Houston Astros lost 4 draft picks and were fined $5MM.

the Red Sox were reprimanded for #watchgate/#pedroiagate so this is there 2nd violation of cheating via electronic means. to think the red sox wont be more severly punished by Manfred is illogical.

 

Hinch heard the banging of the trash can every home game. He's more culpable than some seem to think he is.

[Slasher9]

Good luck proving a harsher penalty for the Sox springs from that first offense. Cora has not even as yet been penalized for his part in Houston. So Cora is going to end up with Houston plus 2018 Sox. That should be a boatload of grief for him just in that.

 

As for penalties to the team, what are we really talking about here. That Manfred would go to three draft picks lost and $10M because of the 1st offense. Not likely. Most likely, the same team penalties that Houston got.

 

I don't believe the Sox get any mileage or any "credit" for not incorporating the trash can signaling into their system. Seems to me, the case can ne made that Cora just became a smarter criminal.

 

the maximum a team can be fined is $5MM. so i expect that to be the fine.

i expect us to lose more draft picks then houston....

[moonslav59]

Fiers is the only identified squealer at this point. I imagine it was a very difficult thing for him to do.

 

MLBTR...

 

New Mets manager Carlos Beltran, a member of the Houston team in 2017, was part of the league’s investigation into the Astros. MLB did not issue him any punishment, however, after he was gave the league his full cooperation “and admitted to everything,” Andy Martino of SNY tweets. It seems Beltran changed his tune since the league’s investigation started in November, though, as he initially denied any knowledge of violations on the Astros’ part.

[Jack Flap]

Cora is going down no matter what at this point, it seems, but I'm also very interested in the question of what Dombrowski knew and when he knew it (which I assume Manfred's eventual report will address). Could have serious implications if he wants to work in the sport again.

[notin]

Cora is going down no matter what at this point, it seems, but I'm also very interested in the question of what Dombrowski knew and when he knew it (which I assume Manfred's eventual report will address). Could have serious implications if he wants to work in the sport again.

 

I would be surprised if Dombrowski was implicated.

 

This wasn’t a complicated plot involving camera installation and a live feed for signs. This was players possibly acting independently checking out video feeds to learn opposing signs and sequences. Since many of them have been plugged into something for a huge chunk of the last 10 years, it’s not surprising they wanted to see video. Not that it’s an excuse, but they might not even known it was illegal. You really can’t suppose that about the Astros. These two scandals are not apples and oranges; they’re apples and basketballs.

 

The only common thread is Cora, and he probably scoffed at the players doing this. “These kids today, thinking they know how to steal signs with their ‘video rooms.’ Harumph! In my day, which was last year, we set up cameras and banged garbage cans. And we liked it!!”

[harmony]

MLBTR...

 

New Mets manager Carlos Beltran, a member of the Houston team in 2017, was part of the league’s investigation into the Astros. MLB did not issue him any punishment, however, after he was gave the league his full cooperation “and admitted to everything,” Andy Martino of SNY tweets. It seems Beltran changed his tune since the league’s investigation started in November, though, as he initially denied any knowledge of violations on the Astros’ part.

Not a good month for Puerto Rico.

[harmony]

Here's the thing: when the Sox got caught with the watch, Manfred said there would be punishment the next time.

 

You don't double up and say, okay, now I'm going to punish you for the first time too.

 

A warning is a warning.

 

We'll see what he does.

In the criminal justice system, a person is often placed on probation for a crime, for example, that carries a jail sentence of up to one year.

 

If the person commits a new crime, that's a probation violation that authorizes a judge to impose a jail sentence of up to one year for the first crime in addition to the punishment for the second crime.

 

If the second crime occurred after the first crime, but before the person was formally placed on probation for the first crime, that's not a probation violation (nevertheless it's part of the person's criminal history that may enhance the punishment for the second crime).

 

MLB may have a parallel system ... or not.

Edited January 14, 2020 by harmony

[notin]

In the criminal justice system, a person is often placed on probation for a crime, for example, that carries a jail sentence of up to one year.

 

If the person commits a new crime, that's a probation violation that authorizes a judge to impose a jail sentence of up to one year for the first crime in addition to the punishment for the second crime.

 

If the second crime occurred after the first crime, but before the person was formally placed on probation for the first crime, that's not a probation violation.

 

MLB may have a parallel system ... or not.

 

The legal system in that case also has a term for probation, such as one year or 5 years or whatever the judge says. And with the Red Sox, they will be treated as repeat offenders despite most of the original offenders actually not in the organization anymore or not involved this time...

[S5Dewey]

Cora is going down no matter what at this point, it seems, but I'm also very interested in the question of what Dombrowski knew and when he knew it (which I assume Manfred's eventual report will address). Could have serious implications if he wants to work in the sport again.

 

IMO there's a lot of 'plausible deniability' going on here, or in the cause of Cora, 'implausible deniability'.

 

In the case of DD I can see things being leaked upstairs and DD saying, "Wait! I don't want to hear this! I need to be able to deny that I knew any of this was going on." In the case of Cora, however, the deniability is less plausible because he was around the players and the clubhouse all the time. IMO whether he was a part of the plan or not he had to know it was happening.

[notin]

IMO there's a lot of 'plausible deniability' going on here, or in the cause of Cora, 'implausible deniability'.

 

In the case of DD I can see things being leaked upstairs and DD saying, "Wait! I don't want to hear this! I need to be able to deny that I knew any of this was going on." In the case of Cora, however, the deniability is less plausible because he was around the players and the clubhouse all the time. IMO whether he was a part of the plan or not he had to know it was happening.

 

Dombrowski has been around a long time and has a history of winning by spending heavily on star talent, which he wouldn’t need to do if he also embraced cheating. Cora has been in the dugout for two such scandals. While I doubt he implemented this “step backwards” method, that he did not put a stop to it is the problem...

[Jack Flap]

It doesn't sound like Luhnow had much knowledge of or involvement in the scheme in Houston, and he was still considered culpable. I imagine the same standards would apply to Dombrowski, who was warned in 2017 after the Apple Watch affair and thus should have been extra vigilant in ensuring nothing similar happened under his watch again.

 

And while our infractions may not have been as egregious as Houston's, somehow I don't think that's going to help us much here. I hope I'm wrong (mostly because I don't relish the thought of losing this summer's #17 pick and others), but the Sox are now a two-time offender, and Manfred/MLB seem to be out for blood here.

[Slasher9]

Not a good month for Puerto Rico.

 

not sure why bring up PR in this discussion? did we bring up some white European nation when pedroia was playing apple watch?

[harmony]

not sure why bring up PR in this discussion? did we bring up some white European nation when pedroia was playing apple watch?

The point may have been made if Dustin Pedroia and another player from the San Joaquin Valley were under investigation for similar behavior the month the valley experienced yet another natural disaster.

 

Or not.

[oldtimer]

It doesn't sound like Luhnow had much knowledge of or involvement in the scheme in Houston, and he was still considered culpable. I imagine the same standards would apply to Dombrowski, who was warned in 2017 after the Apple Watch affair and thus should have been extra vigilant in ensuring nothing similar happened under his watch again.

 

And while our infractions may not have been as egregious as Houston's, somehow I don't think that's going to help us much here. I hope I'm wrong (mostly because I don't relish the thought of losing this summer's #17 pick and others), but the Sox are now a two-time offender, and Manfred/MLB seem to be out for blood here.

 

In the Sox case, they were 57-24 at home and 51-30 away. Doesn't sound like the cheating had a llot to do with the outcome assuming it only occurred at home.

[jung]

In the Sox case, they were 57-24 at home and 51-30 away. Doesn't sound like the cheating had a llot to do with the outcome assuming it only occurred at home.

 

I am not sure we could say it was only at home because the Sox were not using a proprietary camera system as they were in Houston.

Edited January 15, 2020 by jung

[a700hitter]

not sure why bring up PR in this discussion? did we bring up some white European nation when pedroia was playing apple watch?

Why would you considering that Pedroia is Mexican?

[harmony]

Why would you considering that Pedroia is Mexican?

https://ethnicelebs.com/dustin-pedroia

 

In light of the injury incident, it's interesting that Dustin Pedroia's paternal grandmother was apparently born with the surname of Machado.

[Slasher9]

Why would you considering that Pedroia is Mexican?

 

send him back!

[mvp 78]

Stupidest timeline ever...

 

@awfulannouncing

Carlos Beltrán-defending “Iván B” Twitter account is linked to an “Iván Beltrán” e-mail address, which is Carlos Beltrán’s middle name

[mvp 78]

@NYPost_Mets

“Integrity” is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltran’s job at the moment.

[a700hitter]

@NYPost_Mets

“Integrity” is a huge franchise buzzword with the Mets - especially with Fred Wilpon - to the point there is legitimate concern for Carlos Beltran’s job at the moment.

When I hear the Wilpon name, integrity isn’t the first thing that comes to my mind.

[a700hitter]

https://nypost.com/2020/01/15/alex-coras-wink-to-carlos-beltran-isnt-as-it-seems-but-it-is-telling/

 

It looks like the Yankees were also dirty.

[Bellhorn04]

https://nypost.com/2020/01/15/alex-coras-wink-to-carlos-beltran-isnt-as-it-seems-but-it-is-telling/

 

It looks like the Yankees were also dirty.

 

Nice to see the New York media doing its part.

[notin]

https://nypost.com/2020/01/15/alex-coras-wink-to-carlos-beltran-isnt-as-it-seems-but-it-is-telling/

 

It looks like the Yankees were also dirty.

 

3 down. 27 to go...

[mvp 78]

https://nypost.com/2020/01/15/alex-coras-wink-to-carlos-beltran-isnt-as-it-seems-but-it-is-telling/

 

It looks like the Yankees were also dirty.

 

Duh

[Swiharts Ghost]

https://nypost.com/2020/01/15/alex-coras-wink-to-carlos-beltran-isnt-as-it-seems-but-it-is-telling/

 

It looks like the Yankees were also dirty.

Here’s how things work in sports and politics now .Point the finger and act holy when you in fact are as guilty as sin .

[jacksonianmarch]

Was it far more, as per Cora’s much-discussed wink when he first brings up Beltran’s name? I really don’t think so.

 

Direct from that article. Only an idiot says the yanks are dirty from that article

[jacksonianmarch]

Listen, if the Yanks are dirty, show me proof. That’s fine. We have the Sox system, we have the Astros system. Show me their proof and I’ll expect the same punishment. Don’t post innuendo without anything substantive. All it does is deflect the fact that the Sox cheated their asses off and are paying for it now