Pedroia out with renewed left knee pain

[S5Dewey]

Although I hadn't thought of the SAG it's a good comparison.

 

The synergy between MLB and the MLBPA is different from any Union/Management arrangement I can think of because the teams are privately owned and therefore have no obligation to report profits to shareholders. IOW the PA is negotiating blindly when it comes to profit and loss of the owners.

 

That's why some of us fans are frustrated at the amount of money the elite players are getting. Most reasonable and rational people can understand that the players, the ones "making" the product, are entitled to a good piece of the pie but as in industry can't make that piece so big as to prevent the owners from making a profit. So the question is, How big is that player's piece? And a very associated question is, How much of high ticket prices is because of the player's salaries and how much of it is due to 'what the market will bear'?

 

But I'm getting way off-topic here.... I find it disturbing that a labor union which should be working for the welfare of all it's members would have the right to take away a player's right to do when it is what a player may want and is in the owner's best interest.

 

The purpose of labor unions is to protect the rights of workers - and I'd be the first to admit that sometimes happens to a fault - and improve their working conditions.

Edited May 28, 2019 by S5Dewey

[moonslav59]

Although I hadn't thought of the SAG it's a good comparison.

 

The synergy between MLB and the MLBPA is different from any Union/Management arrangement I can think of because the teams are publicly owned and therefore have no obligation to report profits to shareholders. IOW the PA is negotiating blindly when it comes to profit and loss of the owners.

 

That's why some of us fans are frustrated at the amount of money the elite players are getting. Most reasonable and rational people can understand that the players, the ones "making" the product, are entitled to a good piece of the pie but as in industry can't make that piece so big as to prevent the owners from making a profit. So the question is, How big is that player's piece? And a very associated question is, How much of high ticket prices is because of the player's salaries and how much of it is due to 'what the market will bear'?

 

But I'm getting way off-topic here.... I find it disturbing that a labor union which should be working for the welfare of all it's members would have the right to take away a player's right to do when it is what a player may want and is in the owner's best interest.

 

The purpose of labor unions is to protect the rights of workers - and I'd be the first to admit that sometimes happens to a fault - and improve their working conditions.

 

Good points, and the same can be said of ownership. They do everything they can to protect their profits- sometimes to a fault.

[Bellhorn04]

I find it disturbing that a labor union which should be working for the welfare of all it's members would have the right to take away a player's right to do when it is what a player may want and is in the owner's best interest.

 

The purpose of labor unions is to protect the rights of workers - and I'd be the first to admit that sometimes happens to a fault - and improve their working conditions.

 

It's natural that sometimes there will be conflicts between the interests of a union as a group, and the interests of one of the members as an individual. From a union's perspective, the group has to take precedence.

[S5Dewey]

Good points, and the same can be said of ownership. They do everything they can to protect their profits- sometimes to a fault.

 

The difference is that (good) labor unions have to be trying to protect both the workers and the profits of the ownership. They have to be careful not to kill that goose that's supporting the union members. At the same time most owners are trying to maximize their profits by giving the employees the absolute least they can give them and still retain them.

 

That's the biggest difference I can see between union/management relations now vs. in the 1960's - 70's. Back then most companies wanted to keep their employees happy. Now they just want to keep them.

[Bellhorn04]

The difference is that (good) labor unions have to be trying to protect both the workers and the profits of the ownership. They have to be careful not to kill that goose that's supporting the union members. At the same time most owners are trying to maximize their profits by giving the employees the absolute least they can give them and still retain them.

 

That's just one side of the equation. Owners need the revenue side too. The fans are revenue and fans want good players and wins. And good players are extremely expensive.

 

The San Diego Padres needed wins and fans so they shelled out ridiculous contracts to Hosmer and Machado.

[Slasher9]

he can always make $$$ selling "its not me" merch....

[Bellhorn04]

he can always make $$$ selling "its not me" merch....

 

Cold.

[Thunder]

Should have traded him WHEN I FIRST SAID IT.

 

I was right all along you f***ers.

 

I've been thinking about this recently... Imagine what we could have gotten for him at the deadline in 2017, right before all this happened

[jad]

Although I hadn't thought of the SAG it's a good comparison.

 

The synergy between MLB and the MLBPA is different from any Union/Management arrangement I can think of because the teams are privately owned and therefore have no obligation to report profits to shareholders. IOW the PA is negotiating blindly when it comes to profit and loss of the owners.

 

That's why some of us fans are frustrated at the amount of money the elite players are getting. Most reasonable and rational people can understand that the players, the ones "making" the product, are entitled to a good piece of the pie but as in industry can't make that piece so big as to prevent the owners from making a profit. So the question is, How big is that player's piece? And a very associated question is, How much of high ticket prices is because of the player's salaries and how much of it is due to 'what the market will bear'?

 

But I'm getting way off-topic here.... I find it disturbing that a labor union which should be working for the welfare of all it's members would have the right to take away a player's right to do when it is what a player may want and is in the owner's best interest.

 

The purpose of labor unions is to protect the rights of workers - and I'd be the first to admit that sometimes happens to a fault - and improve their working conditions.

 

Thanks. I guess we'll disagree on a few small points here, (I'm old enough to remember the pre-free-agency days, where players were essentially chattel), also on the matter of allowing players to 'free-lance' against the CBA (this was why A-rod ended up a Yankee and we got Manny, no?). Most discussions I've heard from economists show that ticket prices have nothing directly to do w/ player salaries: they are calculated solely in terms of what will turn the highest profit. (Doesn't matter whether players make 5 million or 5 thousand--if a greater profit is turned by charging $300 for a seat, that's where the price will be set). There is likely an INDIRECT relation, as there would be in cinema, in that audiences are intrigued with the high prices players/actors get and will pay more to see them. I imagine we agree on, say, the NBA union, which was clearly run by reps (CP3) who were most interested in lining the pockets of elite players and not run-of-the-mill players. Not sure the MLB union is a whole lot better on this, since young players also are clearly getting screwed on the matter of rookie contracts etc.

[redsoxrules]

I've been thinking about this recently... Imagine what we could have gotten for him at the deadline in 2017, right before all this happened

 

Pedroia was never going to be traded. People need to get that off their head. He was always going to retire as a red sox

[notin]

The MLBPA isn’t a real union. It’s not like they have sympathy strikes to support, say, the UAW.

 

And really, the “labor struggles” in MLB boil down to about a thousand people fighting on how to divide up several billion dollars...

Edited May 28, 2019 by notin

[notin]

Pedroia was never going to be traded. People need to get that off their head. He was always going to retire as a red sox

 

Fans like loyal players who want to play for their team. Until they can’t play and their contract is an issue...

[Bellhorn04]

Fans like loyal players who want to play for their team. Until they can’t play and their contract is an issue...

 

That's when they should have been gotten rid of at the exact point in time when their value was highest!

[notin]

That's when they should have been gotten rid of at the exact point in time when their value was highest!

 

We need HG Wells as the GM!!

[Bellhorn04]

Sports fans in general have the mentality of self-centered, coldhearted, miserable, hateful pricks. They want their thrills and their championships and they really don't give a crap about anything else.

[jung]

Would Pedroia even want to coach? His kids are around 10, 7 and 5. Perhaps he’d like to see them in their own pursuits.

 

If he keeps being paid under a pure player's contract that dooms him to continued rehab stints and therapy aimed at getting him back into a MLB uni again. That will eventually be like being tied to a whipping post for Pedey if its not already. The Sox don't have to bring Pedey back again to MLB unless he PROVES he can meet Cora's standard which has been multiple MLB games in a row as a 2nd baseman. Pedey has been unable to prove that he can and IMO he can't. In fact both team and player in this instance would be tied to the same whipping post because currently the way his contract is written the Sox can only compensate him as a player. He DOES want his money and he deserves his money.

 

The franchise is not the only entity obligated in a player contract.The player has obligations to the team as well. The downside to the team to keeping any player obligations in a Pedey contract is having to keep dumping Pedey on the 60 day IL or lose a roster spot to a guy that can't play. Not even sure how long they can do that.

Edited May 28, 2019 by jung

[notin]

Pedroia’s obligation can end with an informal retirement and lengthy stint on the 60 day IL, exactly like Prince Fielder.

 

The Sox are very likely done extracting value from that contract. This is not new territory for MLB. Pedroia will not be the last player to see his playing career end due to injury while still under contract...

[mvp 78]

I've been thinking about this recently... Imagine what we could have gotten for him at the deadline in 2017, right before all this happened

 

Not that much, honestly. I wanted him gone years before then.

[mvp 78]

Pedroia was never going to be traded. People need to get that off their head. He was always going to retire as a red sox

 

Which is dumb.

[Bellhorn04]

Not that much, honestly. I wanted him gone years before then.

 

What was the year you first wanted him gone?

[mvp 78]

What was the year you first wanted him gone?

 

I believe it was 2015. He was still a very good player then and I believed you would have gotten a decent package for him. I wanted to be proactive in moving him because I was worried his injuries would catch up to him at some point. I know it was prior to the BDC posters coming over.

[sk7326]

That's just one side of the equation. Owners need the revenue side too. The fans are revenue and fans want good players and wins. And good players are extremely expensive.

 

The San Diego Padres needed wins and fans so they shelled out ridiculous contracts to Hosmer and Machado.

 

Half of those contracts were ridiculous

[jung]

Pedroia’s obligation can end with an informal retirement and lengthy stint on the 60 day IL, exactly like Prince Fielder.

 

The Sox are very likely done extracting value from that contract. This is not new territory for MLB. Pedroia will not be the last player to see his playing career end due to injury while still under contract...

 

Thats fine too if it works. Not sure if Fielder's contract was insured the way all these contracts are insured now and not sure how much of a factor that is. Actually, now that I think about it, Fielder's contact must have been insured.

 

i suspect Pedey will need a lengthy detox from being a true MLB player. i suspect based on what we saw yesterday and for a multitude of reasons the team is willing to do just about anything not to see Pedey go through this any longer. I don't know what that lengthly detox is going to look like. But you could knock me over with a feather if Pedey won't need one that does not include endless therapy and endless rehab stints in Pawtucket or Portland or wherever. Maybe a final 60 days around the actual MLB club will be enough. I kinda' doubt it though.

[Bellhorn04]

Thats fine too if it works. Not sure if Fielder's contract was insured the way all these contracts are insured now and not sure how much of a factor that is. Actually, now that I think about it, Fielder's contact must have been insured.

 

I don't think the Red Sox insure any of their contracts, because the premiums, of course, are exorbitant, as they should be.

[jacksonianmarch]

Pedroia has a “joint preservation” surgery on his knee. Whatever that means

[notin]

Pedroia has a “joint preservation” surgery on his knee. Whatever that means

 

They’re replacing his kneecap with grape jelly...

[vegasbob]

Pedroia's latest knee woes would be disappointing enough, if it wasn't such an indictment of the doctors who thought they were fixing him the first and second time. Maybe Dustin in his haste to return overworked the damaged joint too much, but the medical processes didn't help.

 

Strictly guessing but the joint preservation procedure might have been a partial knee replacement where only the inside or outside parts of the leg bones were capped with a metal/"teflon" type insert to eliminate the bone on bone condition. I have seen that done on older people when the stem cell-PRP treatment fails to generate new cartilage to rebuild a more natural knee. I doubt he will make anything but a token effort, to play again . But the Sox will get to pay for at least 2020's contract sum.

[jacksonianmarch]

That’s a joint replacement or what the call a Makoplasty. You can’t play professional baseball with a Makoplasty. My guess is they did the micro fracture surgery again.

[illinoisredsox]

That’s a joint replacement or what the call a Makoplasty. You can’t play professional baseball with a Makoplasty. My guess is they did the micro fracture surgery again.

 

From Boston.com:

 

Dr. Christopher Geary, an orthopedic surgeon at Tufts Medical Center who has not treated Pedroia, described this type of operation as “a much bigger procedure’’ than anything Pedroia has had to this point.

 

“If he was 16, they do either knee replacement or a partial knee replacement,’’ said Geary. “But because of his age [35], there’s a relatively newer technique where they take what’s called a mega allograft. They take it from a cadaver and plug it in where the cartilage is no good.”

 

https://www.boston.com/sports/boston-red-sox/2019/08/07/dustin-pedroia-knee-surgery-2

 

It goes on to say that this is a day to day living procedure, not a get back to playing sports procedure.

Edited August 7, 2019 by illinoisredsox

[dannycater]

This sad story of 2019 just gets sadder by the minute for Sox.