Pedroia out with renewed left knee pain

[jacksonianmarch]

No word other than pain, but I think everyone, even the Yankee fans, don't want to see that. I said before that the injury was career threatening and I wonder if the last viewing of Dustin is limping off the field after skying to RF in Yankee Stadium

[fxkatt]

I'll bet he goes on the DL. And then a decision forthcoming about who replaces him, and who's to play second going forth. I mean with only three bench players, the Sox cannot afford to mess around, and must act quickly--thus the DL.

[jacksonianmarch]

He will definitely go on the IL, I just wonder whether he packs it in and gets the Prince Fielder or Jacoby Ellsbury treatment.

[Station 13]

He might want to give retirement consideration if he wants to walk at age 50.

[notin]

He might want to give retirement consideration if he wants to walk at age 50.

 

If he retires, he walks away from $25mill over the next two years. Not happening...

[TylerD]

Feel bad for him. He wants to play so bad and is having brutal luck with injuries. Sucks seeing this happen to players.

[Jasonbay44]

I hope I'm wrong, but I mentioned this last season and after seeing him start this season, I think Pedroia is done ever being a productive player again. He doesn't even look like the same player anymore. It sucks to see this happen to a guy like Pedroia, whose spent his whole career here and was such an elite player for the Sox during his prime.

[S5Dewey]

I'll say it again...

 

Thanks, Manny, you C/S.

[devildavid]

I hope I'm wrong, but I mentioned this last season and after seeing him start this season, I think Pedroia is done ever being a productive player again. He doesn't even look like the same player anymore. It sucks to see this happen to a guy like Pedroia, whose spent his whole career here and was such an elite player for the Sox during his prime.

 

I regretfully agree. His style of play combined with this kind of injury is a lethal combination.

[mvp 78]

Damn.

[cp176]

This was as predictable as anything that I have seen in recent years. Everyone wanted to and probably still wants to see the Pedroia situation optimistically but not reality. Sox need to pick up the pieces and move on.

[Northern Star]

If he retires, he walks away from $25mill over the next two years. Not happening...

 

I'm pretty sure that if a player is forced to retire due to injury, he doesn't lose his future salary.

[Bellhorn04]

I'll say it again...

 

Thanks, Manny, you C/S.

 

Machete.

[notin]

I'm pretty sure that if a player is forced to retire due to injury, he doesn't lose his future salary.

 

 

You are incorrect. If Pedroia retires, he is out and gets nothing more.

 

This is why Prince Fielder is technically not retired but remains in name only on the 60 day IL for the Rangers, and will for another full year. If Prince officially retired, he would have forfeited $96mill...

[S5Dewey]

Machete.

 

I don't understand why everyone isn't as outraged as I am about this. Manny Machado 'cheap shotted' one of the best players in baseball and ended his career, and there seems to be an attitude toward it of, "Well, it's part of the game".

 

Well, it's NOT part of the game - or at least it shouldn't be, and IMHO there's no room in this game for people like Machado who intentionally risk another player's career and then dismiss it with, "I'll do anything I have to do to help my team win", which is what he said after the incident with Pedroia.

[moonslav59]

I'm pretty sure that if a player is forced to retire due to injury, he doesn't lose his future salary.

 

Yes, but maybe he can restructure his deal into a longer less impactful one.

 

I mentioned a while back about Pedey maybe signing a lifetime services deal that might spread his owed money, plus a little more over 25 years.

 

Would the league allow him to retire, forgo his player salary and then sign a mega coaching/services contract like that?

[notin]

Yes, but maybe he can restructure his deal into a longer less impactful one.

 

I mentioned a while back about Pedey maybe signing a lifetime services deal that might spread his owed money, plus a little more over 25 years.

 

Would the league allow him to retire, forgo his player salary and then sign a mega coaching/services contract like that?

 

 

And why would Pedroia want to do that? I know why fans want him to, but not why Pedroia would want to...

[notin]

Yes, but maybe he can restructure his deal into a longer less impactful one.

 

I mentioned a while back about Pedey maybe signing a lifetime services deal that might spread his owed money, plus a little more over 25 years.

 

Would the league allow him to retire, forgo his player salary and then sign a mega coaching/services contract like that?

 

 

And if he retires, his contract is voided. Just like with Gil Meche and Ryan Dempster, and would be the case with Prince “Technically Still Active” Fielder...

[jacksonianmarch]

Pedey isn’t retiring. Meche and Dempster were still physically able to play, they just didn’t want to. Guys like David Wright and Fielder have injuries that preclude them from playing again. Those guys either get carried through the offseason and placed on the 60 day DL or they get bought out once they cannot play anymore. The Sox don’t insure their contracts, last I checked, so they would have no issue cutting Pedey and he will collect without housing a roster spot through the winter. The problems with Fielder and Wright were that their contracts were insured and they couldn’t be cut until the insurance company and the team settled. It’s the same with the Yanks. We’d have cut Ellsbury by now, but his contract is insured. Holding him on the sidelines saved the team $20 mil a year.

[S5Dewey]

And why would Pedroia want to do that? I know why fans want him to, but not why Pedroia would want to...

 

Why wouldn't he want to, assuming 1) he cares about the team and 2) he intends to remain in baseball to some degree?

 

Spreading the money (and more) over a longer period of time would allow him to have a guaranteed income into the future as well as free up some LT money for the FO.

 

IMO the biggest question is the one Moon asked... Would the Union allow him to do that? (Of course, in the real world he can do what he wants to do. The MLBPA can expect or pressure players to do something but they can't require it).

[moonslav59]

And why would Pedroia want to do that? I know why fans want him to, but not why Pedroia would want to...

 

1) maybe he wants to coach or be a consultant with the Sox.

2) He wouldn't lose any money.

3) He'd still make what he was going to make as a coach or consultant, anyways.

 

For example, he's due $25M after this year. Maybe he would have signed as a coach for $10-15M over 25 years. We get him to retire as a player- like Dempster. He then signs a $35-40M contract for 25 years as a coach/consultant.

 

He makes $10-15M more, and we get off the luxury tax hook for $13.75M over each of the 2020 and 2021 seasons.

 

I'm not sure, if this would be allowable, so that's why I asked.

 

(Maybe the Sox don't want him in the organization after he retires. Who knows?)

 

 

[notin]

1) maybe he wants to coach or be a consultant with the Sox.

2) He wouldn't lose any money.

3) He'd still make what he was going to make as a coach or consultant, anyways.

 

For example, he's due $25M after this year. Maybe he would have signed as a coach for $10-15M over 25 years. We get him to retire as a player- like Dempster. He then signs a $35-40M contract for 25 years as a coach/consultant.

 

He makes $10-15M more, and we get off the luxury tax hook for $13.75M over each of the 2020 and 2021 seasons.

 

I'm not sure, if this would be allowable, so that's why I asked.

 

(Maybe the Sox don't want him in the organization after he retires. Who knows?)

 

 

 

Can you imagine the uproar around other coaches on the Sox and other teams if Pedroia got $25mill for coaching?

 

That’s probably more than all the coaches in the AL East combined. And many would probably be better than the untried rookie. Like Bryan Bannister? What happens when his contract is due and he’s done a great job but is making $24.5 mill (for example) less than a less effective coach?

 

And really, no one knows if Pedroia wants to coach. We do absolutely without a shadow of a doubt know he wants to play...

[jacksonianmarch]

This is all fantasy. The time value of money makes that a stupid decision financially. He took less than market value to get a longer contract and stay in Boston. He’s earned his contract already. The Sox don’t have the cap space to play funny games with his contract, like change the final two years into a single year with all the guaranteed money or attach an option that would never vest and shift the $25 mil to the 2020 tax ledger. It benefits nobody for them to do that. What’s going to happen is this. Pedey is going to get evaluated, either get surgery or rehab and try one more time. If it doesn’t get better, he will effectively be relegated to the 60 day DL

[Maxbialystock]

Pedey isn’t retiring. Meche and Dempster were still physically able to play, they just didn’t want to. Guys like David Wright and Fielder have injuries that preclude them from playing again. Those guys either get carried through the offseason and placed on the 60 day DL or they get bought out once they cannot play anymore. The Sox don’t insure their contracts, last I checked, so they would have no issue cutting Pedey and he will collect without housing a roster spot through the winter. The problems with Fielder and Wright were that their contracts were insured and they couldn’t be cut until the insurance company and the team settled. It’s the same with the Yanks. We’d have cut Ellsbury by now, but his contract is insured. Holding him on the sidelines saved the team $20 mil a year.

 

Are you saying Ellsbury isn't getting paid despite that 7 year, $140M+ contract?

[notin]

This is all fantasy. The time value of money makes that a stupid decision financially. He took less than market value to get a longer contract and stay in Boston. He’s earned his contract already. The Sox don’t have the cap space to play funny games with his contract, like change the final two years into a single year with all the guaranteed money or attach an option that would never vest and shift the $25 mil to the 2020 tax ledger. It benefits nobody for them to do that. What’s going to happen is this. Pedey is going to get evaluated, either get surgery or rehab and try one more time. If it doesn’t get better, he will effectively be relegated to the 60 day DL

 

 

The only other option is a DFA, where he will/should go unclaimed and collect his full guaranteed salary. But the 60 day IL accomplished the same results with the addition of ensuring he retires as a member of the Red Sox...

[notin]

Are you saying Ellsbury isn't getting paid despite that 7 year, $140M+ contract?

 

I think he’s saying Ellsbury is paid less than his estimate of the settlement with the insurance company...

[oldtimer]

This was as predictable as anything that I have seen in recent years. Everyone wanted to and probably still wants to see the Pedroia situation optimistically but not reality. Sox need to pick up the pieces and move on.

 

Dustin was a special player for the Sox and sentimentality prevailed when they offered him a long term contract, which some have said was a discounted bargain for the Sox. The reality is the contract was high risk in that few if any players have returned to form after undergoing that injury and repair surgery, especially when 35 years old. it does look like Dustin may be permanently lost to the team and if so that is too bad for the team and for him. The bottom line is we will no doubt have to carry his salary as dead money against the luxury tax ceiling. We do need to make a move to bring in a younger and at least average level player to fill in the void. Maybe Chavis could do that or we look for another Kinsler. Nunez and Holt are already covering too many positions.

[notin]

Dustin was a special player for the Sox and sentimentality prevailed when they offered him a long term contract, which some have said was a discounted bargain for the Sox. The reality is the contract was high risk in that few if any players have returned to form after undergoing that injury and repair surgery, especially when 35 years old. it does look like Dustin may be permanently lost to the team and if so that is too bad for the team and for him. The bottom line is we will no doubt have to carry his salary as dead money against the luxury tax ceiling. We do need to make a move to bring in a younger and at least average level player to fill in the void. Maybe Chavis could do that or we look for another Kinsler. Nunez and Holt are already covering too many positions.

 

 

It might be time to move on, at least short term.

 

At this point in a season, trades are unlikely, since no one is really out of it yet, not even the Sox. So internal options for 2b get the first shot. Also, unlike trades, if an internal option doesn’t work out, it’s easily undone.

 

But we might have a different case here. The Sox don’t have any 2b prospects knocking on the door, except the minimally-experienced Chavis. Lin is the only other possibility, and really, the most likely candidate if they move quickly off Nunez/Holt.

 

I’d like to see another 2b option beyond Lin. I’d like to see the Sox offer Swihart to the Astros for 2b Jack Mayfield.

 

No idea if Houston would want Swihart, but if they do, getting via waiver claim is unlikely. Their starting catcher is Robinson Chirinos, who, while better than Swihart, is a sketchy player. He is off to a good start however. The same cannot be said for their backup Max Stassi and his .161 OPS. And really, Swihart need not be relegated to a BUC role anyway.

 

And they clearly don’t want Mayfield. He’s a 28yo career minor leaguer blocked by a former MVP. But he is a good defensive infielder and is sporting an insane 1.140 OPS so far, albeit in the notoriously hitter-friendly PCL. Mayfield might not solve the Sox 2b problem, but he needs a good chance he won’t get in Houston. And if the cost is a player already on DFA, why not?

 

Neither Houston nor Boston has a full 40-man roster, so there is no ancillary damage for either team....

Edited April 18, 2019 by notin

[dgalehouse]

There is a name for the kind of useless , figurehead position some are trying to find for Pedroia . It is called " Special Assistant ."

[moonslav59]

Can you imagine the uproar around other coaches on the Sox and other teams if Pedroia got $25mill for coaching?

 

That’s probably more than all the coaches in the AL East combined. And many would probably be better than the untried rookie. Like Bryan Bannister? What happens when his contract is due and he’s done a great job but is making $24.5 mill (for example) less than a less effective coach?

 

And really, no one knows if Pedroia wants to coach. We do absolutely without a shadow of a doubt know he wants to play...

 

Everyone would "know" it wasn't for coaching. It would be for his remaining contract he gave up to save the team from taxes.

 

The issue would be league or union acceptance, not coaches acceptance.

Edited April 18, 2019 by moonslav59