Hanley Ramirez Option Tracker

[S5Dewey]

Hey now - you know that the sarcasm alert bell just rang!

 

Things can certainly change for sure, but when I consider Kimbrel's importance to this team, it amazes me how many here would be willing to just let him walk away. I'm not for over paying players but excellence at some point gets rewarded. His importance to his team as well the emphasis on bullpens getting more pronounced makes him one of the guys on that I would least like to see leave. Maybe some closers are easy to replace - not this one I'm afraid.

 

This goes back to the fact that some posters here don't think that having an elite closer is important, which also may go back to the old argument of "clutch".

 

If you don't think players are clutch then you don't think you need an elite closer to get them out late in the game. You can just throw any old guy out there (Kelly, Barnes, Ross) in the 9th to get the hitters out. We'll know these pitchers will be successful because the stats tell us that over the run of a season the hitters they'll be facing get a hit fewer then one time in three. Statistically one of the three hitters due up will reach base and three of the first four will make outs. Problem solved - statistically.

 

Frankly, it's beyond me why anyone could look at what the Sox did with Papelbon, Folk and Koji, the Yankees did with Rivera, what Kimbrel did last year and even what the Guardians did with Andrew Miller - who wasn't really a closer but more of a Fireman, a guy with closer ability to put out the fire and get the game to their real closer Cody Allen - and think that their team has as good a chance of winning the WS without an elite closer as they do with one.

 

We're paying David Price $30M a year because we recognize the value of an elite starter, JD Martinez almost $24M a year because we recognize the value of power in our lineup, and yet we fail to recognize the value of having an elite closer.

 

Having an elite closer isn't the only way to win but if you don't have one of those you'd better have what you do need and I don't see the Sox having the pitching, the hitting, or the defense to dominate without that closer. Some things are worth having and to get them you have to pay for them.

Edited April 10, 2018 by S5Dewey

[S5Dewey]

And if he crushes, but we don't get a parade? You'd still rather Hanley at 1B next year than Kimbrel as closer?

 

But that's the problem. We don't know how the season ends until it ends. I say that if Hanley is crushing and we're solidly in the race I don't care how many AB's (or PA's, whatever it is) Hanley gets as long as we make the playoffs. You only get a few chances at that ring and if you have a legitimate shot I say you go for it!

[Slasher9]

And if he crushes, but we don't get a parade? You'd still rather Hanley at 1B next year than Kimbrel as closer?

 

i'd rather have hanram next year and be done then have kimbrell earning $18MM per for the next 5 seasons. if you're telling me i can have kimbrell for 1 season in 2019 and then be done then i would go with kimbrell. but that aint happening.

[Kimmi]

Does anybody disagree?

 

Same with Pom vs HRam.

 

First off, it's not as simple as having one over the other.

 

Secondly, whether I'd want Kimbrel over Hanley depends.

 

I would take last year's Kimbrel over last year's Hanley, but I would take the 2016 Hanley over the 2016 Kimbrel. I don't think it's a cut and dry answer.

[Kimmi]

Truth is, we may get neither. If Kimbrel is asking for a ridiculous amount of money I would let Hanley go (I would let him go in nearly any case) and also not sign Kimbrel if it means grossly overpaying him.

 

This is true. Even if Hanley's option doesn't vest, I would not want to spend that money on Kimbrel. There are better ways to spend that money than on a relief pitcher.

[Kimmi]

Hey now - you know that the sarcasm alert bell just rang!

 

Things can certainly change for sure, but when I consider Kimbrel's importance to this team, it amazes me how many here would be willing to just let him walk away. I'm not for over paying players but excellence at some point gets rewarded. His importance to his team as well the emphasis on bullpens getting more pronounced makes him one of the guys on that I would least like to see leave. Maybe some closers are easy to replace - not this one I'm afraid.

 

Relief pitchers are the easiest pieces on the team to replace.

[Kimmi]

And I pay it.

 

I don't let HRam's option vest if that's what would keep the Sox from re-signing Kimbrel.

 

No, just no.

[moonslav59]

First off, it's not as simple as having one over the other.

 

Secondly, whether I'd want Kimbrel over Hanley depends.

 

I would take last year's Kimbrel over last year's Hanley, but I would take the 2016 Hanley over the 2016 Kimbrel. I don't think it's a cut and dry answer.

 

Of course, things might change between now and winter, but we're talking about what we know now.

 

Maybe it won't come down to HRam vs Kimbrel or Hram vs POM, but if did, I'm asking what you'd choose right now- based on what we know right now.

[Kimmi]

Of course, things might change between now and winter, but we're talking about what we know now.

 

Maybe it won't come down to HRam vs Kimbrel or Hram vs POM, but if did, I'm asking what you'd choose right now- based on what we know right now.

 

It's still not that black and white.

 

If it's winning a WS this year with Hanley playing a large part in that, then I'd gladly take Hanley over either Kimbrel or Pomeranz.

 

I think regardless, I'd take Hanley over Kimbrel based on my feelings about not giving large contracts to relievers.

 

Hanley over Pomeranz would be a little tougher, but if we didn't re-sign Kimbrel, we should be able to re-sign Pom.

[Slasher9]

[quote=Kimmi;1128651

 

I think regardless, I'd take Hanley over Kimbrel based on my feelings about not giving large contracts to relievers.

 

Hanley over Pomeranz would be a little tougher, but if we didn't re-sign Kimbrel, we should be able to re-sign Pom.

 

yup. i would take 1 more year of a contract than an LTC for either of those guys....

[Jack Flap]

Nice story on Hanley:

 

A healthy and re-energized Ramirez has taken the 2018 season by storm. He's batting .357 with a .417 on-base percentage, .548 slugging percentage, .964 OPS, two homers, two doubles and 12 RBIs in 48 plate appearances.

 

It's early, but Ramirez seems different on and off the field.

 

He has been tweeting messages after victories. He started during the second series in Miami. Sometimes he'll write something humorous. He seems to be trying to energize his teammates and the fans.

 

He'll blow past the 497 plate appearances required for his $22 million 2019 option to vest if he remains healthy and continues to be this kind of force as Boston's No. 3 hitter.

 

"I don't care about that. If I'm going to get paid, I'm going to paid anyways."

 

He at least says he's not concerned about his 2019 option vesting. But he does care about staying here in Boston beyond 2018. And he's showing he wants to be here by his actions (not just his slugging).

 

His tweeting is a perfect example of how he's engaged and motivated. He wants to retire as a Red Sox just like his mentor David Ortiz did.

 

"I'm going to stay here," Ramirez said. "I belong to Boston. I got drafted here. I'm not going nowhere. Don't you worry about that. I'm going to finish here."

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/04/hanley_ramirez_boston_red_soxs.html

[notin]

Hey now - you know that the sarcasm alert bell just rang!

 

Things can certainly change for sure, but when I consider Kimbrel's importance to this team, it amazes me how many here would be willing to just let him walk away. I'm not for over paying players but excellence at some point gets rewarded. His importance to his team as well the emphasis on bullpens getting more pronounced makes him one of the guys on that I would least like to see leave. Maybe some closers are easy to replace - not this one I'm afraid.

 

I think they are going to have to ley Kimbrel walk. Look what Wade Davis got this year. Undoubtedly that is Kimbrel's floor.

 

The remaining closers on the market are certainly less exciting, but even if the Sox downgrade to Cody Allen or Kelvin Herrera, it won't make this team any worse. I'd rather see Pomeranz back in the rotation and AJ Ramos closing games than Kimbrel closing and Steven Wright or Brian Johnson in the rotation...

[FredLynn]

Nice story on Hanley:

 

 

 

http://www.masslive.com/redsox/index.ssf/2018/04/hanley_ramirez_boston_red_soxs.html

 

Pretty funny, actually. Hanley, like most guys, will go where they "respect" him the most. Not saying I blame any player for going wherever they pay him the most. I would likely do the same thing. What Hanley is saying has to be taken with a grain of salt.

[moonslav59]

HRam's current pace:

 

648 PAs (497 to vest)

27 HRs

162 RBIs

[Carbo-Diem]

A little late on the update today. On pace for 598, coming down nicely. If he can do the 27 HR's and 162 RBI with 496 PA all the better.

[moonslav59]

A little late on the update today. On pace for 598, coming down nicely. If he can do the 27 HR's and 162 RBI with 496 PA all the better.

 

Yes, I was basing my numbers on 12 games not 13. My bad.

 

The 27 HRs and 162 rbis would be lower based on 13 not 12 games played.

[jad]

Yeah, he's fragile, injured all the time, no power, and obviously can't come back from injury. Just waive him.

[notin]

A little late on the update today. On pace for 598, coming down nicely. If he can do the 27 HR's and 162 RBI with 496 PA all the better.

 

Yeah why would we want a hitter like that in our lineup?

[OH FOY]

Shoulder is responding, good.

[Carbo-Diem]

Yeah why would we want a hitter like that in our lineup?

 

Because he won't be hitting like that next year so in essence he is making 44 million for this year if his option vests.

[jad]

Because he won't be hitting like that next year so in essence he is making 44 million for this year if his option vests.

 

OK. So since you can see into the future, please tell me whether the RS will win a championship this year? or next? Because I get confused some times thinking about that, and it will be much easier to follow the team once I know.

[Kimmi]

Because he won't be hitting like that next year so in essence he is making 44 million for this year if his option vests.

 

I'm not sure why you and others assume that even if he continues to hit well this year and his option vests, that he will not continue to hit well next year.

 

I realize that he's getting older, but Hanley really is a very good hitter when he's healthy.

[Carbo-Diem]

OK. So since you can see into the future, please tell me whether the RS will win a championship this year? or next? Because I get confused some times thinking about that, and it will be much easier to follow the team once I know.

 

The Sox will win it all this year as a matter of fact in another ho hum 4-0 world series against the Rockies. Hanley will blow out a knee in August with about 468 plate appearances, Swihart will be traded to the Mets for Steven Matz, Brock Holt will be joining the Panda Express after he is released when Pedey comes back. Most importantly, the street named after that evil racist Tom Yawkey will be changed to "Joe Kelly Way" after he plunks Tyler Austin once every Yankee series "just for fun" while saying "come at me bro".

[jacksonianmarch]

Would you guys be happy if he hit .250 with an .870 OPS and dropped 38 HR? Because that 1b on the FA market last year got a 1 yr $4 mil deal (Logan Morrison). Allowing his option to vest will cost you $18 mil in 2019 as the FA value has been established at $4 mil.

[Bellhorn04]

Would you guys be happy if he hit .250 with an .870 OPS and dropped 38 HR? Because that 1b on the FA market last year got a 1 yr $4 mil deal (Logan Morrison). Allowing his option to vest will cost you $18 mil in 2019 as the FA value has been established at $4 mil.

 

Your point is not totally without merit, but...

 

Morrison is actually guaranteed 6.5 million.

 

I am guessing that Morrison's value was hurt by concerns that he was a one-year wonder, as his career numbers would suggest that possibility.

 

A highly credentialed all-hit no-field guy can still make decent coin, as in J D Martinez.

 

The bottom line with Hanley is, he still seems capable of putting up a 3 WAR season.

 

And when you're the filthy rich Boston Red Sox in pursuit of a championship with a small window, you can't be concerned with f***ing around with whether Hanley's option vests. You go all out to win this year because that's what your fans expect and deserve, and if the option vests, that's show biz.

 

I'm fairly sure a Yankee team in a similar position would do the same.

[jacksonianmarch]

A Sox team up against the top penalty bracket has to worry about the cash

[Bellhorn04]

A Sox team up against the top penalty bracket has to worry about the cash

 

It's a concern of course, and you know the team has talked about it a lot and calculated all the permutations and combinations. They've got oodles of analytics people and bean-counters on the payroll. Looks like they've decided it's all secondary to going for a flag. I applaud that decision.

[Kimmi]

Your point is not totally without merit, but...

 

Morrison is actually guaranteed 6.5 million.

 

I am guessing that Morrison's value was hurt by concerns that he was a one-year wonder, as his career numbers would suggest that possibility.

 

A highly credentialed all-hit no-field guy can still make decent coin, as in J D Martinez.

 

The bottom line with Hanley is, he still seems capable of putting up a 3 WAR season.

 

And when you're the filthy rich Boston Red Sox in pursuit of a championship with a small window, you can't be concerned with f***ing around with whether Hanley's option vests. You go all out to win this year because that's what your fans expect and deserve, and if the option vests, that's show biz.

 

I'm fairly sure a Yankee team in a similar position would do the same.

 

Well said Bell. Especially the part in bold.

[Maxbialystock]

Your point is not totally without merit, but...

 

Morrison is actually guaranteed 6.5 million.

 

I am guessing that Morrison's value was hurt by concerns that he was a one-year wonder, as his career numbers would suggest that possibility.

 

A highly credentialed all-hit no-field guy can still make decent coin, as in J D Martinez.

 

The bottom line with Hanley is, he still seems capable of putting up a 3 WAR season.

 

And when you're the filthy rich Boston Red Sox in pursuit of a championship with a small window, you can't be concerned with f***ing around with whether Hanley's option vests. You go all out to win this year because that's what your fans expect and deserve, and if the option vests, that's show biz.

 

I'm fairly sure a Yankee team in a similar position would do the same.

 

Agree with Kimmi (and her bold print comment). Well said. For whatever reason, Hanley seems reborn this year. He is hitting, and he is playing with enthusiasm. I really like the movie Money Ball, but it's about a team with basically no fan base and very little money. John Henry appreciates the value of statistics, but also that there is a different kind of Money Ball that can be played.

[Natick to NC]

A Sox team up against the top penalty bracket has to worry about the cash

 

Jackson you are a bright person but you know these answers ...your stirring the s*** ....I appreciate that from a Yankee because we expect it .Hanley is a sunk cost and there are already plans well under way a year plus Infact to make sure they can go get what they want next offseason ...Harper ? No ....Machado ? Uhhhhhh hell no !! Extend Mook ? Yes...Extend Craig ? Yeah you bet .....The Yankees can Have Harper or Machado ....but I believe Harper goes to the Cubs and you folks land Manny ...terrible decision you don't need him .The guy waiting in the wings may be better for one tenth the cost .

Edited April 15, 2018 by Natick to NC