A Realistic View at 2018: Part II

[a700hitter]

Why are we comparing Devers and Moncada when the deal was for Sale, who I think has been more than satisfactory?

 

Moncada is a year older than Devers and already not as good a ballplayer--hitter, anyway--in my opinion. He is clearly a better athlete, and I am certainly worried about Devers' weight which could seriously erode his potential and even his ability to play a lot. 6 feet tall and 230 pounds (or more) is a little scary even though right now he carries it well.

I was comparing them, because I think we kept the right prospect. We were not going to get Sale without parting with Moncada or Devers.

[cp176]

We can’t call him a troll, because he has been here in good times and bad for the Yankees. He does like to troll from time to time. I guess we can call out the action, but not condem him as a troll. I just call him what I call every other Yankee fan, “douche bag.” I have more tolerance for Jackie than most Yankees fans, because he roots for his team behind enemy lines like I do.

 

I've actually learned to tolerate him. I actually find him more tolerable some who post here.LOL

[cp176]

Why are we comparing Devers and Moncada when the deal was for Sale, who I think has been more than satisfactory?

 

Moncada is a year older than Devers and already not as good a ballplayer--hitter, anyway--in my opinion. He is clearly a better athlete, and I am certainly worried about Devers' weight which could seriously erode his potential and even his ability to play a lot. 6 feet tall and 230 pounds (or more) is a little scary even though right now he carries it well.

 

You can bet your bottom dollar though Max, that there are some here who would see the Moncada, Kopeck trade for Sale in hindsight and would likley criticize DD for pushing that button. In their minds, it would be an easy fix if Pedroia does not make it back to simply slide Moncada right into second base. Just another opportunity for some to rip into the way DD does his job. Not me!

[Emp9]

You can bet your bottom dollar though Max, that there are some here who would see the Moncada, Kopeck trade for Sale in hindsight and would likley criticize DD for pushing that button. In their minds, it would be an easy fix if Pedroia does not make it back to simply slide Moncada right into second base. Just another opportunity for some to rip into the way DD does his job. Not me!

 

Not me either. It’s the only major trade I loved every aspect of from DD and really can’t find one single fault with. A+

[Emp9]

I was comparing them, because I think we kept the right prospect. We were not going to get Sale without parting with Moncada or Devers.

 

I was going to post something similar early this week, due to the almost overwhelming criticism over Devers as of late. More on the defense side of things though. Would Moncada have been a better defensive 3Bman for us? I honestly don’t know, just a question to the board. It’s tough to interpret Moncada’s 2B stats on the CWS to hypothetical nonexistent 3B stats on our Sox. I guess my question would be, does anyone think Moncada would’ve made a worse 3Bman than 2Bman (his most natural position)? And would it have been that much different than what Devers has shown us to date?

[a700hitter]

I was going to post something similar early this week, due to the almost overwhelming criticism over Devers as of late. More on the defense side of things though. Would Moncada have been a better defensive 3Bman for us? I honestly don’t know, just a question to the board. It’s tough to interpret Moncada’s 2B stats on the CWS to hypothetical nonexistent 3B stats on our Sox. I guess my question would be, does anyone think Moncada would’ve made a worse 3Bman than 2Bman (his most natural position)? And would it have been that much different than what Devers has shown us to date?

Moncada is a butcher at second base from what I have seen.

[S5Dewey]

We can’t call him a troll, because he has been here in good times and bad for the Yankees. He does like to troll from time to time. I guess we can call out the action, but not condem him as a troll. I just call him what I call every other Yankee fan, “douche bag.” I have more tolerance for Jackie than most Yankees fans, because he roots for his team behind enemy lines like I do.

 

Ok. I see where you're coming from. It's ok to point out that he's trolling but we can't call him a troll.

 

Actually I like most of his posts when he's not trolling. He provides insight into medical things, etc. as well as a Yankees point of view. I'm good with that.

[a700hitter]

Ok. I see where you're coming from. It's ok to point out that he's trolling but we can't call him a troll.

 

Actually I like most of his posts when he's not trolling. He provides insight into medical things, etc. as well as a Yankees point of view. I'm good with that.

And never forget that because he is a Yankee fan, he is a douche bag. And that is not some biased generalization. It is just true.

[Yaz Fan Since 67]

I'm glad we kept Devers, but Moncada's numbers are not that far apart.

 

Moncada (524 PAs) .226 17 47 (.707 OPS and rising) 190 Ks

 

RDevers (547 PAs) .258 22 69 (.757 OPS and falling) 136 Ks

 

 

Thanks for the comment on the back, fortunately it's not a chronic problem like so many have. Which is strange as I'm tall, a golfer, 59 and have crappy posture which all lead to back problems.

 

As for this post you are correct they are similar but the edge goes to Devers. As I said he showed last year that he can hit at this level, Moncada has yet to do that. And he's older. No I like Devers right now.

Edited June 23, 2018 by Yaz Fan Since '67

[harmony]

Moncada is a butcher at second base from what I have seen.

This year Yoan Moncada has 0 Defensive Runs Saved (DRS) in 568 innings at second base after posting 6 DRS in 467.1 innings last year.

 

This year Rafael Devers has -6 DRS in 639.1 innings at third base after posting -1 DRS in 507.2 innings last year.

 

This year Moncada has posted a UZR/150 of 0.7 at second base after posting -1.9 UZR/150 last year.

 

This year Devers has posted a UZR/150 of -2.3 at third base after posting -11.5 UZR/150 last year.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=17232&position=2B#fieldingadvanced

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=17350&position=3B#fieldingadvanced

 

ZiPS, Steamer and FanGraphs Depth Charts project Moncada with rest-of-season WAR of 1.2, 0.8 and 1.0 in 75, 78 and 81 games, respectively.

 

ZiPS, Steamer and FanGraphs Depth Charts project Devers with rest-of-season WAR of 1.1, 1.0 and 1.1 in 78, 73 and 77 games, respectively.

[Kimmi]

Your rotation has been very good. I'd say it's more on the strength of your back end rather than an overwhelming front end, which makes things dicier come playoffs. Your 2-5 is more like 4 3's.

 

That being said, not being worried about your offense baffles me. Your offense was awesome when Betts was hitting like Bonds circa 2012, JDM was in the running for the batting title and Mitch Moreland forgot he was Mitch Moreland and was OPS'ing over 1.000, ie your offense was unsustainably killing it with a hot top 5. Since Betts started hitting like a human being and Moreland came crashing down to earth, your offense has been pedestrian. Your offense carried an .800+OPS through June 1. Since your lineup became mortal, your team is 21st in runs scored and 19th in OPS. In the AL, your team is only ahead of KC, CWS, TB, and Baltimore in runs and only ahead of those same teams plus Detroit in OPS. In June, your team's OPS is .080 behind the Yankees, and they are slumping in June and nearly 200 points behind Houston, who is killing it. And while your starting pitching has been very good, it isn't the best in the AL (not by a long shot) and is only marginally better than your closest rivals in terms of ERA and your pen is noticeably behind your chief rival. If your pitching was like the O's circa 1971, then I'd say don't worry about it. But your pitching isn't head and shoulders above the rest and your offense has shown its colors once your top 5 stopped hitting at unsustainably ridiculous levels. Your lineup requires lengthening. If you don't lengthen it, then the chances of your team winning it all are small

 

You're killing me Jacko.

 

Stop. Just stop.

 

The Red Sox are fine. More than fine. Both offensively and pitching wise. For the regular season and for the postseason.

 

Worry about your own team.

[Kimmi]

Our 3-6 starters have been great, and you find a way to make that look like a weakness.

 

Sale has pitched great, and the team is 8-8 in his starts.

 

No matter how you spin this, our starters have done a fantastic job, and you know it. Just admit it.

 

As I've said many times, Jacko is legitimately scared of the Red Sox.

 

It's a well know fact to all of us amateur psychologists that people try to tear someone or something down in a feeble attempt to make themselves feel better.

[Kimmi]

Nice thought, but a day at Talksox isn't complete until someone makes a silly trade proposal and Harmony assaults us with mind-numbing fWAR comparisons and multiple web links.

 

Anyone who uses fWAR is all right in my book.

[Kimmi]

He can't just stay on his Yankee Game Thread, he gets lonely there.

 

Jacko is a Red Sox fan wannabe.

[Kimmi]

We can’t call him a troll, because he has been here in good times and bad for the Yankees. He does like to troll from time to time. I guess we can call out the action, but not condem him as a troll. I just call him what I call every other Yankee fan, “douche bag.” I have more tolerance for Jackie than most Yankees fans, because he roots for his team behind enemy lines like I do.

 

Jacko's all right in my book. He just can't help himself. He's a Yankees fan, after all.

[Bellhorn04]

Jacko's all right in my book. He just can't help himself. He's a Yankees fan, after all.

 

He sure gets excited when the Yankees are rolling, doesn't he?

[Spudboy]

This year Yoan Moncada has 0 Defensive Runs Saved (DRS) in 568 innings at second base after posting 6 DRS in 467.1 innings last year.

 

This year Rafael Devers has -6 DRS in 639.1 innings at third base after posting -1 DRS in 507.2 innings last year.

 

This year Moncada has posted a UZR/150 of 0.7 at second base after posting -1.9 UZR/150 last year.

 

This year Devers has posted a UZR/150 of -2.3 at third base after posting -11.5 UZR/150 last year.

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=17232&position=2B#fieldingadvanced

 

https://www.fangraphs.com/statss.aspx?playerid=17350&position=3B#fieldingadvanced

 

ZiPS, Steamer and FanGraphs Depth Charts project Moncada with rest-of-season WAR of 1.2, 0.8 and 1.0 in 75, 78 and 81 games, respectively.

 

ZiPS, Steamer and FanGraphs Depth Charts project Devers with rest-of-season WAR of 1.1, 1.0 and 1.1 in 78, 73 and 77 games, respectively.

 

So?

 

Both players have ample room for growth in their positions.

 

That does not mean that Moncada is not a butcher at second base.

 

More useless data.

[Kimmi]

He sure gets excited when the Yankees are rolling, doesn't he?

 

I'm not sure that 'excited' is the word that I'd use, but yeah. LOL

[harmony]

So?

 

Both players have ample room for growth in their positions.

 

That does not mean that Moncada is not a butcher at second base.

 

More useless data.

I posted the numbers in response to a post that read: "Moncada is a butcher at second base from what I have seen."

 

I wonder how many of Yoan Moncada's 485 chances in the field the poster has observed.

 

The DRS and UZR systems reportedly track every play.

[a700hitter]

I posted the numbers in response to a post that read: "Moncada is a butcher at second base from what I have seen."

 

I wonder how many of Yoan Moncada's 485 chances in the field the poster has observed.

 

The DRS and UZR systems reportedly track every play.

Not a lot, but enough to see that his hands are terrible and his footwork needs a lot of work. In comparing him to Devers, the only plus for Moncada is speed. I think Devers will be the better all around hitter. The metrics around this are inconclusive at this stage in their careers. They both suck in the field, and i don't think the metrics disprove that. They are both young and should improve.

[moonslav59]

We are now 13-2 in ERod starts. We were bound to lose one more eventually.

 

Let's get 'em today!

 

[oldtimer]

We are now 13-2 in ERod starts. We were bound to lose one more eventually.

 

Let's get 'em today!

 

 

That we did and we finally supported Sale. Best of all JBJ had 3 hits and it looked like he had his swing more under control. Lets hope this is the start of a more effective offensive showing from him. We don't need much offense from him, just not an automatic out.

[Larry Cook]

Sale was off the charts today. An absolute beast with the slider.

 

Best game he has thrown in a year.

[Nick]

Sale was off the charts today. An absolute beast with the slider.

 

Best game he has thrown in a year.

 

I do think ramping up slowly has been helpful. We'll have to see him August/Sept. He looked exhausted last year down the stretch.

 

I also think he loves pitching in Boston. Big crowds. Competitive team. Same goes for JD Martinez. I think he's excited to be here. Some guys embrace it, others run away from it.

 

BTW, Yankees got swept by the Rays. I don't have any stats in front of me, but the Rays have given Yankees fits over the past couple of years. Sometimes, you can throw out the record. We seem to have problems with the A's, no?

Edited June 24, 2018 by Nick

[Bellhorn04]

Great that Cora was able to get him out of the game today with a sub-100 pitch count.

[cp176]

I do think ramping up slowly has been helpful. We'll have to see him August/Sept. He looked exhausted last year down the stretch.

 

I also think he loves pitching in Boston. Big crowds. Competitive team. Same goes for JD Martinez. I think he's excited to be here. Some guys embrace it, others run away from it.

 

For the last two games his fastball has reached 100 mph. His pitches overall tend to be anywhere from 80 to 100. Throws his slider at the speed he wants. I'm not sure I understand the part about ramping up slowly though. He is certainly throwing the ball harder than we have seen him throw that is for sure. Someone suggested a few days ago on a thread here that if the playoffs started today that they might start E-Rod over Chris Sale. Anyone remember that? I'm fairly sure that it was a statistically based assumption due to the fact that in games started E-Rod has a better record and that the team tends to support him with more runs. Personally, I consider that a ridiculous assumption. Chris Sale is an ace, a true gamer. Your ace gets the ball as often and when he wants it as long as he stays healthy. I realize that some here think that his body is not built for the long haul. My retort to that is that we are all built differently and when was the last time Chris Sale was injured. Talk to him yes of course so that you know when and if he needs breaks. He is a professional and I think he knows what he can and cannot do. Red Sox fans I think just need to sit back and enjoy what we have in one of the best pitchers in the game today. Now since I am being realistic, we also have 2 of the very best hitters in the game playing for us in JD and Mookie. Enjoy them while we have them.

[moonslav59]

That we did and we finally supported Sale. Best of all JBJ had 3 hits and it looked like he had his swing more under control. Lets hope this is the start of a more effective offensive showing from him. We don't need much offense from him, just not an automatic out.

 

JBJ's hits were all line drives.

 

I'm hoping this is the start of the long awaited hot streak, and that maybe he turns it into a longer one than he's ever had.

[Bellhorn04]

I'm hoping this is the start of the long awaited hot streak, and that maybe he turns it into a longer one than he's ever had.

 

I'll drink to that.

[Maxbialystock]

JBJ's hits were all line drives.

 

I'm hoping this is the start of the long awaited hot streak, and that maybe he turns it into a longer one than he's ever had.

 

I knew you were going to say something like that after today's game.

[S5Dewey]

I knew you were going to say something like that after today's game.

 

That was a safe prediction because it's true. JBJ's been hitting the ball well lately anyway. Kimmie pointed out that .079 BAPIP of JBJ's a couple of days ago. It's just that today the balls weren't hit right at someone.

 

Sometimes all you need is one break to turn things around. The liner of the 1B glove early in the game may have been that break.