Should Jackie Bradley Jr be traded?

[cp176]

Agreed. In fact, in his inaugural season, that's exactly how he radically turned his young MLB career around. He suddenly started harnessing that raw power and pounding the ball to the opposite field.... We were having the same conversation..... "FANTASTIC CF'r, but can he hit MLB pitching?" And suddenly this fledgling GOLD GLOVER began to show us that in fact he could hit mlb.pitching. could even hit a semi-respectable .260+, while playing CF like few others ever have....... Still, he inevitably backsides for months at a time, only to get hot again. The cycle goes on & on with this kid. Well....... "This kid ain't a kid no more!" This full grown man inexplicably routinely forgets the basics of keeping his head ON THE BALL fully through the zone, and gives into the lure of swinging from his arss & pulling the s*** out of every pitch. NOW he daydreams about launch angle, and 30 bombs to DEEP RIGHT FIELD, while his rotating head rips his shoulders into Right field, while he repeatedly fans over one after the other breaking ball down & in. At least the fans down the 1st base line are regularly getting a nice breeze.

 

Well, it's back to the future.... can the 'kid.....' ah.... mature MLB cf'r remember how to hit with consistency? Can her CONSISTENTLY remember to keep his head and shoulders on the ball all the way through the zone? Can he remember to GO WITH THE PITCH and start punishing pitchers when they give him the outside of the plate? Can he pick up on the breaking ball down & in, and lay off?

 

Well..... Once again, mlb pitchers have figured out that down & in GAPING HOLE in JBJ's swing. They see that he simply can't pick up on the spin of the ball, and sees every pitch as straight inside cheese ..... like a Pavlovian mouse, Jackie can't lay off the 'whiff' of cheese..... On & on we go..... Will 'The kid's' .... mature GG'r make it back out of the maze, & remember every pitch ain't cheese????

 

It's maddening!

 

It's time for this mature MLB player to get back to the basics of a controlled swing, and give up the ghost of launch angles & right field bombs! Stop swinging from his arss every pitch. Keep his head & shoulders on the ball ALL THE WAY through the zone. Stay under control, and quiet down that swing. ....... Get that head under control & off the swivel.

 

DRIVE THE BALL under control to the opposite field!

 

Sorry to rant! Just needed to get that thesis off my chest.

 

Now go get 'em kid's! Go back to the future that kept you up for good in the bits. Drive & slap that ball opposite field.

 

I'm not sure that when Jackie took the ball to left a couple of times last week he intended to do it. I'm guessing that it was an accident. So few players in the game today hit for contact even when down 2 strikes. Controlling the bat is becoming somewhat of a lost art and that is a shame. Hit em where they ain't is still a damn good philosophy. And yes using the bunt either to move a runner over or to move the ball away from a shift should still be seen as very valuable to players. I care not one bit if when JBJ does hit the ball he hits it hard if it is right at someone. It is a waste. Rather than just flail away and hope for something good to happen I would like to see him make s better effort just to make contact and put the ball in play.A team skilled at manufacturing runs normally is a good team.

[cp176]

I don't see DD standing pat at the deadline if he feels that he can improve this team. Go big or go home might be something that could be said of this old horse trader though. You never know what big name he might be interested in. If it is Machado, he will know what he needs to do to lock him up. He won't bring him in as a rental. To date almost every trade that he has made has helped this team.

[moonslav59]

I'm thinking DD wants to stay under the $40M penalty line, so our trade options could be severely limited to what the pro-rated cost of the player we are acquiring is.

 

[vegasbob]

I don't see DD standing pat at the deadline if he feels that he can improve this team. Go big or go home might be something that could be said of this old horse trader though. You never know what big name he might be interested in. If it is Machado, he will know what he needs to do to lock him up. He won't bring him in as a rental. To date almost every trade that he has made has helped this team.

 

"almost every trade" = Carson Smith and Tyler Thornburg , or did CS predate DD?

[vegasbob]

Maybe Jackie has an inferiority complex playing between the gifted, highly compensated Mookie Betts and the golden child Andrew Benintendi. Consequently he wants his piece of fame and glory and sees it only available through the HR swing instead of being a productive #8/#9 type hitter advancing runners or "stealing" 1B with a bunt towards the 3B line. Those guys don't get paid but it would help justify carrying him for his glove.

[cp176]

"almost every trade" = Carson Smith and Tyler Thornburg , or did CS predate DD?

 

Thornburg might be the one that looks bad I guess. Although there has actually been a sighting. Giving up Miley for Smith - I'm ok with that. Worth the risk. To date the rest of the crew traded away who are actually active don't look like the ones that got away.

[cp176]

Maybe Jackie has an inferiority complex playing between the gifted, highly compensated Mookie Betts and the golden child Andrew Benintendi. Consequently he wants his piece of fame and glory and sees it only available through the HR swing instead of being a productive #8/#9 type hitter advancing runners or "stealing" 1B with a bunt towards the 3B line. Those guys don't get paid but it would help justify carrying him for his glove.

 

correcto.

[vegasbob]

x 2. eff that dude and his takeout slides.

 

Yeah Manny would be a real fan favorite at Fenway, and maybe in the clubhouse too.

[vegasbob]

He hit well last season. This year he hits like he never seen an offspeed pitch.

 

Always thought catchers should be better hitters, or at least more selective on breaking pitches and recognition in general because they see so many deliveries every day. But I guess it's a considerably different angle in the batters box and the overall fatigue (mental/physical) of long games and long seasons wear them out.

[notin]

I don't see DD standing pat at the deadline if he feels that he can improve this team. Go big or go home might be something that could be said of this old horse trader though. You never know what big name he might be interested in. If it is Machado, he will know what he needs to do to lock him up. He won't bring him in as a rental. To date almost every trade that he has made has helped this team.

 

The Sox aren't getting Machado. Not with our farm system. What would we give up? Bryan Mata and Jalen Beeks? That's not going to pry him from Baltimore.

 

In fact, the Sox are unlikely to acquire any big name this July. Maybe an infielder or a reliever, but don't expect a name bigger than Lowrie...

[moonslav59]

I don't see DD standing pat at the deadline if he feels that he can improve this team. Go big or go home might be something that could be said of this old horse trader though. You never know what big name he might be interested in. If it is Machado, he will know what he needs to do to lock him up. He won't bring him in as a rental. To date almost every trade that he has made has helped this team.

 

Here's a list of all DD's trades:

 

Kimbrel> Margot, Asuaje, Allen & Guerra

 

Smith & Elias> Miley & J Aro

 

Aaron Hill> A Wilkerson & W Rijo

 

B Ziegler> L Basabe (the other one) & J Almonte

 

Pomeranz> A Espinoza

 

F Abad> Pat Light

 

Sale> Moncada, Kopech, Basabe & V Diaz

 

Thornburg> T Shaw, M Dubon & J Pennington

 

Josh Tobias> Buchholz

 

Cash for IFA signing bonus> Longhi, I Diaz & S Espinal

 

Nunez> S Anderson & G Santos

 

A Reed> G Bautista, J Callahan & S Nogosek

 

E Filia> R Elias

 

 

 

 

Edited June 16, 2018 by moonslav59

[vegasbob]

In about a month it will be serious time to judge what it may take to finish the season atop the AL East for the third time. Don't even think that WC will be the answer.

 

The issues will come down to whether Pedroia is able to play and produce at all ; can you win it all with Leon/Vazquez ; can JBJr find a way to help at bat; absent Pedey, do you give Holt 2B vs RH pitching and save Nunez for LH'ers? This is a World Series potential team, with very good starting pitching, above average relievers , and veteran bench (x Swihart?) players. BUT, up the middle, the catchers have been weak at bat (getting better?), the CF'er is a .185 hitter with a plus glove , and 2B is held together by two good but not great utility guys. Strength up the middle, not so much right now.

 

I think when DD goes shopping in July, it could include a veteran catcher in return for Swihart or Leon plus a pitcher (Johnson/Velazquez ?), and even a 2Bman if Pedroia doesn't respond well to treatment. I also think JBJr could well be part of a multiplayer deal for a hitting OF'er, with average defense. Move Beni over to CF and go for it.

[moonslav59]

...do you give Holt 2B vs RH pitching and save Nunez for LH'ers?

 

Both have significant reverse splits for their career and this season.

 

vs RHPs

Holt .693 career (.793 in 2018)

Nunez .742 career (.700 in '18)

 

vs LHPs

Holt .719 career (1.117 in '18)

Nunez .688 career (.419 in '18)

 

[vegasbob]

Here's a list of all DD's trades:

 

Kimbrel> Margot, Asuaje, Allen & Guerra

 

Smith & Elias> Miley & J Aro

 

Aaron Hill> A Wilkerson & W Rijo

 

B Ziegler> L Basabe (the other one) & J Almonte

 

Pomeranz> A Espinoza

 

F Abad> Pat Light

 

Thornburg> T Shaw, M Dubon & J Pennington

 

Josh Tobias> Buchholz

 

Cash for IFA signing bonus> Longhi, I Diaz & S Espinal

 

Nunez> S Anderson & G Santos

 

A Reed> G Bautista, J Callahan & S Nogosek

 

E Filia> R Elias

 

 

 

 

 

Not knowing the real status, future and abilities of some of the minor leaguers moved on by Dave D., I will say there isn't someone I wish we had today. On this list of 13 acquisitions, Kimbrel is the only high achiever. Nunez has paid dividends and will continue as long as Pedroia is MIA ; Pomeranz is still a possible asset as it gets into the second half but definitely m,ore a question than an answer. Thornburg, who knows, probably learn more in July or later ; Carson Smith, a proven idiot , not in a funny way. In fact, self inflicted tantrum injuries should relieve the team of having to pay his salaryfor the duration.

 

Overall, DD has not traded for to obtain big production except Kimbrel . Pomeranz had a nice 2017 but no carryover, Nunez is still a useful utility guy, Smith is a jerk, and Thornburg is an unknown quantity. You can say that Pomeranz, Thornburg and Smith (nitwit) all came with arm issues, some of which are not yet cleared up, as well as new ones from the same guys.

 

The one criticism has been Travis Shaw's awakening in Milwaukee, but what would they have done with Devers besides leave him in Pawsox land for another year or so, and Travis was not tearing up the AL East at the time. i do think Dd has some work cut out before the deadline and will move two or more guys from the current 40 man roster to shore up one or more positions up the middle.

[cp176]

The Sox aren't getting Machado. Not with our farm system. What would we give up? Bryan Mata and Jalen Beeks? That's not going to pry him from Baltimore.

 

In fact, the Sox are unlikely to acquire any big name this July. Maybe an infielder or a reliever, but don't expect a name bigger than Lowrie...

 

I'm not advocating for him to trade for Machado. Kind of too bad that I have to say that but oh well. Obviously it would take players who are on our current roster. It is a little silly for anyone to even think for a minute that he gets traded for a bunch of guys who likely will never have an impact at the ml level. What I would say though is that anyone who just simply dismisses the idea of DD thinking big an pulling off another stunner, hasn't been paying attention.

[vegasbob]

...do you give Holt 2B vs RH pitching and save Nunez for LH'ers?

 

Both have significant reverse splits for their career and this season.

 

vs RHPs

Holt .693 career (.793 in 2018)

Nunez .742 career (.700 in '18)

 

vs LHPs

Holt .719 career (1.117 in '18)

Nunez .688 career (.419 in '18)

 

 

With these two guys, OBP may be more significant against same side pitching particularly if they are going to bat #6/7/8 and Mookie Betts will be hitting #1. But interesting numbers and appreciate the insight

[cp176]

Not knowing the real status, future and abilities of some of the minor leaguers moved on by Dave D., I will say there isn't someone I wish we had today. On this list of 13 acquisitions, Kimbrel is the only high achiever. Nunez has paid dividends and will continue as long as Pedroia is MIA ; Pomeranz is still a possible asset as it gets into the second half but definitely m,ore a question than an answer. Thornburg, who knows, probably learn more in July or later ; Carson Smith, a proven idiot , not in a funny way. In fact, self inflicted tantrum injuries should relieve the team of having to pay his salaryfor the duration.

 

Overall, DD has not traded for to obtain big production except Kimbrel . Pomeranz had a nice 2017 but no carryover, Nunez is still a useful utility guy, Smith is a jerk, and Thornburg is an unknown quantity. You can say that Pomeranz, Thornburg and Smith (nitwit) all came with arm issues, some of which are not yet cleared up, as well as new ones from the same guys.

 

The one criticism has been Travis Shaw's awakening in Milwaukee, but what would they have done with Devers besides leave him in Pawsox land for another year or so, and Travis was not tearing up the AL East at the time. i do think Dd has some work cut out before the deadline and will move two or more guys from the current 40 man roster to shore up one or more positions up the middle.

 

Chris Sale

[moonslav59]

With these two guys, OBP may be more significant against same side pitching particularly if they are going to bat #6/7/8 and Mookie Betts will be hitting #1. But interesting numbers and appreciate the insight

 

OBP vs RHP

Career

.328 Nunez

.328 Holt

2018

.368 Holt

.293 Nunez

 

OBP vs LHP

Career

.353 Holt

.289 Nunez

2018

.571 Holt (14 PAs)

.219 Nunez

 

[vegasbob]

OBP vs RHP

Career

.328 Nunez

.328 Holt

2018

.368 Holt

.293 Nunez

 

OBP vs LHP

Career

.353 Holt

.289 Nunez

2018

.571 Holt (14 PAs)

.219 Nunez

 

 

Thanks again. Tells me to play Holt for now against RHP and probably lefties too.

[Slasher9]

Thanks again. Tells me to play Holt for now against RHP and probably lefties too.

 

Exactly. Until DD gets us a real 2bman holt is our best option defensively and his o numbers are better too. Nunez is playing thru an injury IMO

[Station 13]

Exactly. Until DD gets us a real 2bman holt is our best option defensively and his o numbers are better too. Nunez is playing thru an injury IMO

 

It is incomprehensible to start Nunez this much with a better option available. I agree we need to get a real 2B soon.

[moonslav59]

It is incomprehensible to start Nunez this much with a better option available. I agree we need to get a real 2B soon.

 

Holt has started 14 of our last 18 games. We're 12-6 in those games.)

 

Nunez has started 15 of the last 18- 4 as a DH.

[Bellhorn04]

Holt has started 14 of our last 18 games. We're 12-6 in those games.)

 

Nunez has started 15 of the last 18- 4 as a DH.

 

Also, the book on Holt's offense is that he fades as the season goes on or as he's being used regularly.

[Kimmi]

The problem with Holt, Nunez, and Moreland to a lesser extent, is that they are not meant to be everyday players. Their value and also their production shines best when they are used in bench/platoon roles.

[a700hitter]

The problem with Holt, Nunez, and Moreland to a lesser extent, is that they are not meant to be everyday players. Their value and also their production shines best when they are used in bench/platoon roles.

Add that to the fact that Swihart has no business on an MLB roster and you have a dept problem

[jung]

The problem with Holt, Nunez, and Moreland to a lesser extent, is that they are not meant to be everyday players. Their value and also their production shines best when they are used in bench/platoon roles.

 

That is very true and its also true that Swihart does not belong on this team at all. I think the Sox have got to hope that JBJ goes on a run somewhere in here. I just don't see the rational for trading him at this point. In the off season...gladly...but now, I don't think there is an option to hoping he has a serious hot streak somewhere in here.

 

In my opinion Beni and Devers are a bit too young still to be as under the gun as they are on this team. Beni needs one more year anyway and Devers needs two at least. But here they are...Beni is always in the two hole if not batting lead off if Mookie is out and Devers was cleanup tonight for God sake. So we have two left hand hitters that are basically in diapers batting from 2 and 4 tonight against a LH pitcher and I am not sure I can argue with Cora about that because what choice does he really have?

Edited June 17, 2018 by jung

[oldtimer]

That is very true and its also true that Swihart does not belong on this team at all. I think the Sox have got to hope that JBJ goes on a run somewhere in here. I just don't see the rational for trading him at this point. In the off season...gladly...but now, I don't think there is an option to hoping he has a serious hot streak somewhere in here.

 

In my opinion Beni and Devers are a bit too young still to be as under the gun as they are on this team. Beni needs one more year anyway and Devers needs two at least. But here they are...Beni is always in the two hole if not batting lead off if Mookie is out and Devers was cleanup tonight for God sake. So we have two left hand hitters that are basically in diapers batting from 2 and 4 tonight against a LH pitcher and I am not sure I can argue with Cora about that because what choice does he really have?

 

Swihart has not produced and we should be able to do better. I agree with Kimmi that neither Holt nor Nunez should be considered every day players and Moreland is in a tailspin now, maybe because he is wearing down.

 

I think Beni is one of the best hitters on the team and he can and will adjust to hitting left hand pitching. Devers on the other hand is a free swinging power hitter who has a lot of trouble making regular contact and he is not a good choice as a cleanup hitter. Maybe there are enough dinged up players to force Cora to do that with him.

 

We only had 2 hits last night so the pitching befuddled the entire lineup.. No need to single out specific players. The real question is what can DD do to improve the team with the constraints he is under?

[jung]

Swihart has not produced and we should be able to do better. I agree with Kimmi that neither Holt nor Nunez should be considered every day players and Moreland is in a tailspin now, maybe because he is wearing down.

 

I think Beni is one of the best hitters on the team and he can and will adjust to hitting left hand pitching. Devers on the other hand is a free swinging power hitter who has a lot of trouble making regular contact and he is not a good choice as a cleanup hitter. Maybe there are enough dinged up players to force Cora to do that with him.

 

We only had 2 hits last night so the pitching befuddled the entire lineup.. No need to single out specific players. The real question is what can DD do to improve the team with the constraints he is under?

 

Last night was last night. Putting players as young as Beni and Rafi in positions where they literally have to carry such a heavy load for 162 games is a deal with the devil. It has been a deal with the devil since the Sox PR machine started advertising these guys as the second coming of Jesus Christ. It is barely fine to have players this young playing with really no back up of any consequence for 162 games. To have them there anticipating that they are going to get you successfully through 162 AND into a deep post season run is frankly a little delusional. By season end, the weaknesses of these two young players will be fully understood and will be exploited by what will inevitably be the best rotations in baseball because this game has always been and continues to be about pitching in the main.

 

I suppose we might muse that one day this burden we are making them carry will pay off in a faster maturation and we can hold onto that. We have to hold onto that. But considering it a plus in this year is what is a bit delusional. They will have valleys that are disturbing and peaks that are wonderful. But their valleys during the course of 162 will be deeper and more problematic than we like which is particularly true of Devers. To be frank, this should be Beni's first year in the bigs and Devers should still be learning the game somewhere other than the pinnacle of the game.

 

You add to that the obvious lineup issues presented by Moreland and Holt (both very professional baseball players) and nunez, the enigmatic JBJ and the utterly useless Swihart and you begin to realize that the reason we win so many games is because of our rotation and because the bulk of the teams we face are utter and complete trash masquerading as ML baseball teams. All wonderful until the day when we are only facing teams that are actual ML baseball teams like we are. We all know when that day comes.

[Bellhorn04]

Last night was last night. Putting players as young as Beni and Rafi in positions where they literally have to carry such a heavy load for 162 games is a deal with the devil. It has been a deal with the devil since the Sox PR machine started advertising these guys as the second coming of Jesus Christ. It is barely fine to have players this young playing with really no back up of any consequence for 162 games. To have them there anticipating that they are going to get you successfully through 162 AND into a deep post season run is frankly a little delusional. By season end, the weaknesses of these two young players will be fully understood and will be exploited by what will inevitably be the best rotations in baseball because this game has always been and continues to be about pitching in the main.

 

I suppose we might muse that one day this burden we are making them carry will pay off in a faster maturation and we can hold onto that. We have to hold onto that. But considering it a plus in this year is what is a bit delusional. They will have valleys that are disturbing and peaks that are wonderful. But their valleys during the course of 162 will be deeper and more problematic than we like which is particularly true of Devers. To be frank, this should be Beni's first year in the bigs and Devers should still be learning the game somewhere other than the pinnacle of the game.

 

You add to that the obvious lineup issues presented by Moreland and Holt (both very professional baseball players) and nunez, the enigmatic JBJ and the utterly useless Swihart and you begin to realize that the reason we win so many games is because of our rotation and because the bulk of the teams we face are utter and complete trash masquerading as ML baseball teams. All wonderful until the day when we are only facing teams that are actual ML baseball teams like we are. We all know when that day comes.

 

Holy crap, jung. You really have a flair for the melodramatic.

[Slasher9]

The problem with Holt, Nunez, and Moreland to a lesser extent, is that they are not meant to be everyday players. Their value and also their production shines best when they are used in bench/platoon roles.

 

That is a BINGO