Red Sox Acquire Drew Pomeranz

[mvp 78]

The trade for Peavy didn't cost us much, relatively speaking.

 

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/07/reactions-to-the-jake-peavy-trade-1.html

 

Two years ago, the Red Sox wouldn't have made this trade, writes Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports. However, a strong desire to avoid the new Wildcard play-in game has changed the dynamic of the trade deadline. Passan goes on to write that no GM has had a better year than Ben Cherington, who has taken the Red Sox from one baseball's worst teams in 2012 to an AL East title race in 2013.

[Hugh2]

Yep, Theo did all that, but he wasn't great at everything. In season trades for pitching was one of his weaknesses, unless you think he was perfect.

 

No he wasn't perfect but he is about as good as you can get as a G.M. I also don't think that Bedard trade was that bad. The Sox had Becket, Lester, and Lackey at the top of the rotation and they really just need a guy to fill out the rotation.

[dupree]

I honestly think it's wrong to judge this deal until Drew pitches his 1st game on Wednesday. I can remember when that Casey Kelly was involved in the A-Gon trade. So much praise so much talent to send for an elite 1B who was to rake at 1B for us for years to come.

 

Well how did that work out for us?

 

Kelly was and still is a bust

 

A-Gon was a clubhouse cancer and signed for big bucks and thank God that the Dodgers who still hasnt made the big show since the trade took him off our hands.

 

Hanley was said to be a cancer but no such reports. His power is down yes but all the fears of him being a bad teammate never came about.

 

If we go to the world series and win in Papi last year it will be awesome. But if we don't we can't say that DD didn't try.

 

All I'm saying is let's see what happens before we circle the wagons. Let's no judge a book by its cover. Let's hold judgement if he gets blown up Wednesday and for the rest of the year then by all means let's talk about what a bad deal.

[User Name]

So once Pomeranz makes his first start, we'll have a clear grasp on how the trade worked out?

[a700hitter]

No he wasn't perfect but he is about as good as you can get as a G.M. I also don't think that Bedard trade was that bad. The Sox had Becket, Lester, and Lackey at the top of the rotation and they really just need a guy to fill out the rotation.

Lackey was clearly injured and refusing to get shut down because of his contract clause obligating him to play an additional year for the league minimum. He was lobbing balloons to the plate.

[a700hitter]

I honestly think it's wrong to judge this deal until Drew pitches his 1st game on Wednesday. I can remember when that Casey Kelly was involved in the A-Gon trade. So much praise so much talent to send for an elite 1B who was to rake at 1B for us for years to come.

 

Well how did that work out for us?

 

Kelly was and still is a bust

 

A-Gon was a clubhouse cancer and signed for big bucks and thank God that the Dodgers who still hasnt made the big show since the trade took him off our hands.

 

Hanley was said to be a cancer but no such reports. His power is down yes but all the fears of him being a bad teammate never came about.

 

If we go to the world series and win in Papi last year it will be awesome. But if we don't we can't say that DD didn't try.

 

All I'm saying is let's see what happens before we circle the wagons. Let's no judge a book by its cover. Let's hold judgement if he gets blown up Wednesday and for the rest of the year then by all means let's talk about what a bad deal.

The AGon trade didn't hurt us. It was the Crawford deal and the Beckett extension and lots of other stuff. AGon has been a solid producer on the field.

[Hugh2]

Lackey was clearly injured and refusing to get shut down because of his contract clause obligating him to play an additional year for the league minimum. He was lobbing balloons to the plate.

 

Yeah....right after I hit enter I regretted putting him in with those two. Lester and Beckett were good that year, both had horrible Septembers as did the entire pitching staff.

[mvp 78]

The AGon trade didn't hurt us. It was the Crawford deal and the Beckett extension and lots of other stuff. AGon has been a solid producer on the field.

 

Anthony Rizzo - 18.4 WAR since 2012

Adrian Gonzalez - 13.5 WAR since 2012

 

This team would be far better with Rizzo at 1b

[mvp 78]

So once Pomeranz makes his first start, we'll have a clear grasp on how the trade worked out?

 

Yup. Right after pitch #1.

[Nick]

I think the Pomeranz deal was made not only for this year but for next two years. I have a feeling he'll be with us for awhile.

 

We're definitely competing for 2016, 2017 and 2018 playoffs.

[Slasher9]

Ben was never ever in charge. It was LL. And that is why LL is no longer in his position of power.

[moonslav59]

Some of us also thought we should have planned for an unforeseen injury or significant struggle from a pitcher we projected doing fine this year (Price, Porcello, ERod).

 

Look how bad our rotation ended up being despite Wright having a break-out year- seemingly to some- out of nowhere!

 

Remember, Porcello was a question mark going into 2016 as well, even to a poster like me who had been defending him and the extension more than anyone.

 

Looking at the history of big FA SP'er signings, even Price could have been viewed as not being a slam-sunk to put up ace-like numbers in 2016, though I realize you can't get much closer to "sure bet" than Price.

 

The fact is, and this is not hindsight for me and many many other posters, we started the season with an ace (Price), a pretty good bet on two #3's (Porcello and ERod) and then 8 "wings and a prayer" gambles:

Buchholz

Kelly

Wright (some had him below everyone on the depth chart)

Owens

Johnson

Elias

Barnes

Cuevas/O'Sullivan

 

Look, I get the argument that 2 of these guys rated to do well enough to contribute enough wins to our 4-5 slots. Nobody forsaw a 7.00+ ERA from these guys combined (as starters), but I've always hated the quantity over quality mentality on structuring a rotation. I'm not trying to claim I knew more than Sox management, because I know I don't. I realize my position on quality over quantity seems to contradict my point about needing depth to cover something like the injury and struggles of ERod-someone we viewed as a solid #3 going into 2016, but depth of mediocrity (or worse) and high risk guys like Buch and Kelly never seem to work out.

 

You are right, we went into 2016 with 2 question mark rotation slots and ended up with 3 due to ERod's struggles. We were somewhat lucky that Wright more than made up for ERod, and maybe one could argue we were unlucky that nobody out of Buch, Kelly, Owens, Elias, Johnson and others stepped forward to fill even the 4 slot. I saw it then as poor planning, and I see it now as costing us a great long term prospect in Espinoza to fix the mistake made last winter.

 

I'm glad we have Pomeranz, but I'm not going to lie and say I approve of the time and way we went about getting him or someone like him.

 

We were more than "somewhat lucky" with what Wright has provided. We basically walked into a bank, grabbed a bunch of cash, fled and the bank just shrugged their shoulders.

 

I agree. Nobody saw this coming, but there were a few of us that have been supporting Wright's inclusion (or at least him being given an equal shot) in the rotation for several years.

[moonslav59]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2013/07/reactions-to-the-jake-peavy-trade-1.html

 

Two years ago, the Red Sox wouldn't have made this trade, writes Jeff Passan of Yahoo Sports. However, a strong desire to avoid the new Wildcard play-in game has changed the dynamic of the trade deadline. Passan goes on to write that no GM has had a better year than Ben Cherington, who has taken the Red Sox from one baseball's worst teams in 2012 to an AL East title race in 2013.

 

I called the Dodgers trade "perhaps the greatest trade the Sox have ever made, although I won't argue with the Pedro trade supporters or the VTek/Lowe trade.'

 

The Uehara trade was a steal as well.

 

I'm not arguing these deals outweighed the bad ones, but along with his farm building, I'm not going to look back at Ben's total body of work in a negative light.

[moonslav59]

The AGon trade didn't hurt us. It was the Crawford deal and the Beckett extension and lots of other stuff. AGon has been a solid producer on the field.

 

The AGon trade allowed us to dump CC and Beckett, so that should be part of the final equation.

 

Would anyone take Rizzo, if you had to take CC and Beckett with him? Maybe, but it's not a no-brainer.

[a700hitter]

The AGon trade allowed us to dump CC and Beckett, so that should be part of the final equation.

 

Would anyone take Rizzo, if you had to take CC and Beckett with him? Maybe, but it's not a no-brainer.

I agree.

[mvp 78]

Your point makes no sense as Gonzelez was brought in before Crawford was signed.

[Dojji]

Peavy was acquired due to Clay Buchholtz getting 'hurt'.....come to think of it, Clay has COST US a FREAKING TON...it's always covering up for the guy.

 

I seem to recall making that point a few times in the offseason when I think it was MVP started talking about how picking up Clay's option was a "no brainer."

[Kimmi]

I think the job in 2015 was simply to sit pat and let the rookies develop. That mission was accomplished. BC isn't a bad GM, he did a very solid job in drafting and building up our arsenal of prospects, but I think a switch to a more aggressive go-get-your-man guy fit the need of the franchise when DD was brought in.

 

IMO, we would have seen a more aggressive approach from Ben if he had been allowed to see his long term plan come to fruition. He had been mainly focusing on building the farm, while trying to fill in the holes with short term free agents that could keep the team competitive. This strategy worked beautifully in 2013 and failed miserably in 2014 and 2015.

 

Ben was more or less following Theo's blueprint in Chicago. He just wasn't allowed to see it through, unfortunately.

[Kimmi]

Plus, my recollection is that far better pitchers moved at the 2011 trading deadline than Bedard. I could be wrong, but it isn't worth my time to research facts to support a throw away line. I stand by my opinion that DD is more decisive when it comes to making deals to fill needs.

 

Dombrowski is only able to make his acquisitions because of the Farm that Ben Built. Those things take time.

[Kimmi]

I think the Pomeranz deal was made not only for this year but for next two years. I have a feeling he'll be with us for awhile.

 

We're definitely competing for 2016, 2017 and 2018 playoffs.

 

It is an absolutely great feeling to think that our starting rotation could be set for the next two years, not to mention most of our position players.

[Bellhorn04]

Anthony Rizzo - 18.4 WAR since 2012

Adrian Gonzalez - 13.5 WAR since 2012

 

This team would be far better with Rizzo at 1b

 

When you talk about trading Rizzo you're talking about the inherent risk of any trade of good prospects. Usually the other team gets squat, but sometimes they get the golden nugget.

 

The really bizarre part is that the Padres gave up on him after a rough debut and let him slip away.

 

Meanwhile we give up on Lars Anderson after he loses most of his value and trade him for a knuckleballer who's our best starter this year.

[Bellhorn04]

Dombrowski is only able to make his acquisitions because of the Farm that Ben Built. Those things take time.

 

Ben was a nurturer.

[moonslav59]

Your point makes no sense as Gonzelez was brought in before Crawford was signed.

 

Come on, of course it makes sense. If we didn't have AGon, regardless of when we signed CC, we would not have been able to dump CC and Beckett.

[FredLynn]

Dombrowski is only able to make his acquisitions because of the Farm that Ben Built. Those things take time.

 

True. And its one of the reasons Theo Epstein has such a good club in Chicago right now. He didn't build that farm system. Someone else did, benefiting from some horrible finishes and good drafting of pick high in the pecking order.

[moonslav59]

True. And its one of the reasons Theo Epstein has such a good club in Chicago right now. He didn't build that farm system. Someone else did, benefiting from some horrible finishes and good drafting of pick high in the pecking order.

 

...and Dan D built the farm that allowed Theo to trade for Schill and others.

 

I just hope DD doesn't continue trading our quality prospects. I'm glad he kept Moncada and Benintendi. I am happy with our roster and projected future roster. Yes, we have some real duds dragging us down somewhat, but despite those issues, we look to have a path to continued success.

[Bellhorn04]

I called the Dodgers trade "perhaps the greatest trade the Sox have ever made, although I won't argue with the Pedro trade supporters or the VTek/Lowe trade.'

 

The Uehara trade was a steal as well.

 

I'm not arguing these deals outweighed the bad ones, but along with his farm building, I'm not going to look back at Ben's total body of work in a negative light.

 

I always respectfully disagree with you about the AGon trade being one of the great trades. To me it was a great salary dump, that's it. We got nothing in return except financial relief - and it's questionable whether we made good use of that relief. Maybe I'm a purist in some ways, but I think in a great trade you get back a player who helps you a lot.

[User Name]

That roster and salary relief led directly to a WS victory. How exactly is that questionable?

[Jack Flap]

I always respectfully disagree with you about the AGon trade being one of the great trades. To me it was a great salary dump, that's it. We got nothing in return except financial relief - and it's questionable whether we made good use of that relief. Maybe I'm a purist in some ways, but I think in a great trade you get back a player who helps you a lot.

 

A great salary dump can still be a great trade. In this case, it was 1000% necessary to clear the swamp (the thought that we could still be paying Carl Crawford gives me the heebie-jeebies), and doing so paved the way for the 2013 title by allowing us to add the likes of Napoli, Victorino, and the rest.

 

I wouldn't say we got nothing in return, either. It's easy to forget now, but De La Rosa and Webster were promising arms at one point, the former of which has stuck in the majors as a back-of-the-rotation type starter. Those two helped us get Miley, who had a decent season and then got us Carson Smith. I think the other two guys went to Pittsburgh in the Hanrahan/Holt deal.

[Bellhorn04]

That roster and salary relief led directly to a WS victory. How exactly is that questionable?

 

Yeah, I realize I'm on somewhat shaky ground with that statement. The short-term benefits were definitely there. But did any of those benefits extend beyond 2013?

[User Name]

Flags fly forever.