Red Sox Acquire Drew Pomeranz

[mvp 78]

That's why I didn't say it was a bad trade.

 

One more time, it's possible for it to be an acceptable trade and say it was an overpay.

 

It wasn't an overpay. It was the going rate.

[SoxnCycles]

It wasn't an overpay. It was the going rate.

 

Based on what other trade?

[mvp 78]

Based on what other trade?

 

Based on the asking price around MLB for starters.

 

Braves wanted Moncada and Espinoza and more for Teheran. A's wanted Espinoza for 4 months of Hill.

 

I can imagine that this trade was the best value out there.

[User Name]

Everything is an "overpay" to some people here. The market dictates the going rate.

[a700hitter]

Whether it was an overpay or not, and that will not get determined until this kid gets to the big leagues, kimmi hit the nail on the head when she said that it had to be done. Our starting staff has been in a shambles since Ben inexplicably gutted our starting pitching in 2014 and did nothing to rebuild it and our farm just does not have any high caliber major league ready arms. Whatever the price ends up being, DD had to pay it.

[a700hitter]

Based on the asking price around MLB for starters.

 

Braves wanted Moncada and Espinoza and more for Teheran. A's wanted Espinoza for 4 months of Hill.

 

I can imagine that this trade was the best value out there.

Oh, you believe everything you read.

[mvp 78]

Oh, you believe everything you read.

 

That's not necessarily true. I give more weight to stuff on the Fangraphs Tribune and to other reliable sources than to whatever gruel a beat reporter is trying force down my throat.

[Hugh2]

Based on the asking price around MLB for starters.

 

Braves wanted Moncada and Espinoza and more for Teheran. A's wanted Espinoza for 4 months of Hill.

 

I can imagine that this trade was the best value out there.

 

The Padres probably asked for Espinoza plus as well, perhaps. What a team asks for is a negotiation tool, in the end they'll take the highest bid, Moncada/Espinoza is probably the "buy now" price.

[moonslav59]

You hear the word "overpay" on almost every trade for a good SP'er. There are a few that say otherwise.

 

You here "it was a necessary overpay" a lot as well. To me, that speaks to the "immediate gratification" mentality that seems to dominate our current culture.

[mvp 78]

The Padres probably asked for Espinoza plus as well, perhaps. What a team asks for is a negotiation tool, in the end they'll take the highest bid, Moncada/Espinoza is probably the "buy now" price.

 

Well, the A's made a few offers and apparently they were bad enough that Dombrowski hung up the phone and looked elsewhere.

 

Now, if a comparable starter gets dealt at the deadline for a cheaper option than Espinoza, Dombrowski will have egg on his face. Right now, it looks like he paid market price for a starter.

[mvp 78]

You hear the word "overpay" on almost every trade for a good SP'er. There are a few that say otherwise.

 

You here "it was a necessary overpay" a lot as well. To me, that speaks to the "immediate gratification" mentality that seems to dominate our current culture.

 

So if every trade for a SP is an "overpay," maybe none of them are overpays? Maybe that's closer to market rate?

[moonslav59]

Based on the asking price around MLB for starters.

 

Braves wanted Moncada and Espinoza and more for Teheran. A's wanted Espinoza for 4 months of Hill.

 

I can imagine that this trade was the best value out there.

 

Sometimes the "best out there" is still not enough.

 

I get the win now, while Papi is still here idea.

 

I love the fact that Pomeranz is under control for 2 more years at a low cost.

 

I still think Espinoza was an overpay. It's not a gross overpay due to the risks involved with Espi's projected future, but I'd rather have 4-7 years of team control with Espi vs 2.4 of Pomeranz.

[a700hitter]

Sometimes the "best out there" is still not enough.

 

I get the win now, while Papi is still here idea.

 

I love the fact that Pomeranz is under control for 2 more years at a low cost.

 

I still think Espinoza was an overpay. It's not a gross overpay due to the risks involved with Espi's projected future, but I'd rather have 4-7 years of team control with Espi vs 2.4 of Pomeranz.

DD had to make a move like this now or in the off season. The pitching fairy was not going to drop major league arms at his doorstep in the offseason, and we don't have any in our organization. This was not a win now move. It was a move toward competiveness for the next few years. Edited July 20, 2016 by a700hitter

[User Name]

Pomeranz is Red Sox property for two years after this one. It's a move for long-term improvement. Saying otherwise is silly.

[moonslav59]

So if every trade for a SP is an "overpay," maybe none of them are overpays? Maybe that's closer to market rate?

 

Yes, in theory, but if the end result shows the players traded away do better than the players received over the long view, then one can argue empirically, that he deal was an "overpay".

 

It's the same with signing big-named FAs. Ultimately, they are worth what someone is willing to give them, but a great number of them don't come close to meeting projected production expectations. To me, it's an "overpay".

 

I'm not saying "overpays" are never advisable. I was okay with the Price overpay. I liked the Beckett extension. I liked the Porcello extension. I've been wrong like many GMs have been on when to selectively decide now is the time to overpay. When teams continuously "overpay" it usually comes back to bite them in the ass.

 

The Yanks paid the price. We paid the price. The Dodgers have yet to hit paydirt.

[SoxnCycles]

Based on the asking price around MLB for starters.

 

Braves wanted Moncada and Espinoza and more for Teheran. A's wanted Espinoza for 4 months of Hill.

 

I can imagine that this trade was the best value out there.

 

I'm basing my opinion on what Pomeranz was traded for 7 months ago, not 'proposed' trades.

[Hugh2]

So if every trade for a SP is an "overpay," maybe none of them are overpays? Maybe that's closer to market rate?

 

you're giving up more potential future value than the present value you're getting. Which makes sense, if I was going to give you $1 today....I'd expect to be paid back more than $1 dollar 5 years from now. Espinoza has the potential to return a heck of a lot more value than Pomeranz will to us and he has too because that value will not only be realized in the future but it comes with a risk premium as well.

 

The term "overpay" is a bit misleading, or misunderstood by some because they are not factoring in that time value and risk premium associated with the player.

Edited July 20, 2016 by A Red Sox fan named Hugh

[moonslav59]

Pomeranz is Red Sox property for two years after this one. It's a move for long-term improvement. Saying otherwise is silly.

 

It's silly ignoring the fact that I clearly wrote, "I love the fact that Pomeranz is under control for 2 more years at a low cost."

 

My point has been I prefer the higher risk/reward of 4-7 years of Espi vs the risk/reward of 2.4 years of Pomeranz.

 

I like Pomeranz. The odds are great that he helps this team in a very significant way for 2.4 years. I even mentioned how his low financial cost may help us upgrade at other positions in better ways.

 

Yes, 2.4 years can be viewed as "long term". It certainly beats 0.4 years fo Hill. However, 4-7 years is even longer term.

 

 

 

[User Name]

I'm basing my opinion on what Pomeranz was traded for 7 months ago, not 'proposed' trades.

 

Your opinion is wrong then. Unfortunately, with the evolution of his repertoire and his results, he's not the same pitcher for all intents and purposes.

 

Seven months ago the Braves don't ask for Espinoza+ for Teheran.

[User Name]

It's silly ignoring the fact that I clearly wrote, "I love the fact that Pomeranz is under control for 2 more years at a low cost."

 

My point has been I prefer the higher risk/reward of 4-7 years of Espi vs the risk/reward of 2.4 years of Pomeranz.

 

I like Pomeranz. The odds are great that he helps this team in a very significant way for 2.4 years. I even mentioned how his low financial cost may help us upgrade at other positions in better ways.

 

Yes, 2.4 years can be viewed as "long term". It certainly beats 0.4 years fo Hill. However, 4-7 years is even longer term.

 

 

 

 

I'm not talking specifically about you. If I was, I would have quoted you. And your point here is based on a bunch of "what-ifs", because you're assuming that Espinoza will both make the Majors and be productive for the time a team controls him. The possibilities of that happening are significantly smaller than the possibility of Pomeranz being productive here for 2.4 years. Saying otherwise is indefensible.

[a700hitter]

His value had gone up. Pitching yourself onto an All Star team will do that.

[mvp 78]

I'm basing my opinion on what Pomeranz was traded for 7 months ago, not 'proposed' trades.

 

He's a different pitcher than he was 7 months ago.

[a700hitter]

Pomeranz is facing a tough crowd on Talk Sox tonight. Anything worse than 7 innings and 3 runs and he will get skewered. 7 innings and 3 runs will be considered a wash. Welcome to Boston.

[User Name]

Pomeranz and Price suck. Buchholz and Kelly are what this team needs. Talksox logic.

[mvp 78]

Pomeranz is Red Sox property for two years after this one. It's a move for long-term improvement. Saying otherwise is silly.

 

What was it like when we disagreed with A700 on everything and when exactly did we get dropped in this alternate dimension?

[mvp 78]

Pomeranz and Price suck. Buchholz and Kelly are what this team needs. Talksox logic.

 

No no no. If he pitches like 2016 Price, it'll be ok for Pomeranz. However if Price pitches like 2016 Price, it'll be completely sucky and unacceptable.

[User Name]

What was it like when we disagreed with A700 on everything and when exactly did we get dropped in this alternate dimension?

 

SBF got banned, and he retired, so he stopped being a grouch and now has sensible ideas. Such is life.

[mvp 78]

SBF got banned, and he retired, so he stopped being a grouch and now has sensible ideas. Such is life.

 

This as good of a theory as any.

 

Send an assassin my way if I start to talk about Red Sox themed caskets though...

[a700hitter]

What was it like when we disagreed with A700 on everything and when exactly did we get dropped in this alternate dimension?

You guys finally started making sense. LOL!

 

Seriously, I think we all just got tired of fighting and started reading each other's posts without an angry filter and started to realize that the other guy was making some good points. Nah! LOL!

 

We still disagree on a whole bunch of stuff like trading Pedey and Papelbon.

[SoxnCycles]

He's a different pitcher than he was 7 months ago.

 

That's what the Sox are betting on.

I hope they're right.

 

But, it ignores the fact he's never pitched more than 100 innings until this year.

There's no doubt he makes the team better.

Will he still make the team better after anoth 70 innings?

Again, I hope the Sox are right.

 

The rest can continue with the moronic "Pomeranz sucks" posts.