Red Sox Acquire Drew Pomeranz

[Jack Flap]

It should go without saying that a GM (or PBO) has to worry about both the present state of the franchise and the future, even years into the future. Saying "Who cares about the future, just win now" is not an answer, unless you want to drive your organization into the ground within a few years. A balance has to be struck between the two...whether Dombrowski has got it just right, or is erring a bit too far towards the present at the expense of the future, remains to be seen.

[Nick]

Several of us expected that DD would pick up another starter in the off season, and thought that not doing so was a mistake. That was foresight not hindsight, and we ended up being right.

 

Based on your logic we better trade for Hill right now. We don't have enough pitching.

 

It took an epic failure by Kelly and Buchholtz along with injury to E Rod to get us to where we are. Throw in regression from Owens and Johnson along with overvaluing Elias further reduced our starting corps.

[Slasher9]

I thought that Nolan Ryan popularized the use of pickle juice to prevent blisters.

 

I didn't know that one. Moises alou used to pee on his hands to toughen them up. Never used batting gloves. Me? I'm putting gloves on...

[Slasher9]

Yes, and DD has a great track record at making trades too. Now if he can only go out and trade Mookie Betts for Matt Kemp!!!

 

Lol. +1 million points.

[a700hitter]

Based on your logic we better trade for Hill right now. We don't have enough pitching.

 

It took an epic failure by Kelly and Buchholtz along with injury to E Rod to get us to where we are. Throw in regression from Owens and Johnson along with overvaluing Elias further reduced our starting corps.

How do you come to conclude that? They just added a starter addressing the need that has been there from the off season. If ERod follows up his last start with another good outing, maybe we don't need another starter.

[a700hitter]

I didn't know that one. Moises alou used to pee on his hands to toughen them up. Never used batting gloves. Me? I'm putting gloves on...

My mind is packed with over 50 years of baseball, and it is the stuff in my life that I remember best. I looked and found this to back it up:

 

http://www.yougoprobaseball.com/how-to-treat-prevent-and-cure-finger-blisters.html

[Hugh2]

It should go without saying that a GM (or PBO) has to worry about both the present state of the franchise and the future, even years into the future. Saying "Who cares about the future, just win now" is not an answer, unless you want to drive your organization into the ground within a few years. A balance has to be struck between the two...whether Dombrowski has got it just right, or is erring a bit too far towards the present at the expense of the future, remains to be seen.

 

You need balance, you really do and I think DD is fairly good at maintaining that balance. You're right though, some people want to just blindly unload the future to win now. At times, I think I've been too far on the other end of that spectrum, and I admit that.

 

Although there is one thing that scares me. As good as a track record that DD has, that has to be an indictment on his scouting department as well. There are a lot of scouts and personnel that do the leg work that ultimately go into the decision making. The Sox really liked Espinoza, but if he does turn into a stud I hope he stays in the N.L. West.

[Hugh2]

Budget constraints don't change the personnel needs. We were addressing the personnel needs. Many of us felt that they needed an additional starter, and we were right. If they didn't get a pitcher for budgetary reasons, it doesn't absolve the decision not to get a pitcher, nor does it change or eliminate the need. If they didn't have the room in the budget, that is also on them for wasting money on Castillo, Panda, and Craig. I realize that DD wasn't responsible for those mistakes, but he needed to find a way to work around it.

 

Fair enough, and if that is the case then I suppose I'm guilty. I was happy with the Price signing but I thought someone would step up to fill out the rotation. I didn't forsee the injury and step back Erod would take either.

 

However with that logic I do want to take credit for stating the Sox needed a RHH infielder who can hit lefties. Aaron Hill was a great pick up that fills a need on this team, but to be my own critic.....pitching is and has been a much bigger need.

[SoxnCycles]

Based on your logic we better trade for Hill right now. We don't have enough pitching.

 

It took an epic failure by Kelly and Buchholtz along with injury to E Rod to get us to where we are. Throw in regression from Owens and Johnson along with overvaluing Elias further reduced our starting corps.

 

Yup, the Sox waited to see what there most pressing needs would be, as the season progressed.

The back end of the rotation collapsed, but the Sox were strong enough in other areas to stay in contention.

 

If Pomeranz And Zeigler turn out to be solid contributers, the Sox got it right.

[Emp9]

For purely discussion, shits & giggle purposes... Lets take the last 3 trades for Hill, Ziegler, & Pomeranz and pretend it was all in the same deal w/ just one other team ( including what we gave up of course). Does it all look better in this light? I'm just curious what posters think...

[Nick]

For purely discussion, shits & giggle purposes... Lets take the last 3 trades for Hill, Ziegler, & Pomeranz and pretend it was all in the same deal w/ just one other team ( including what we gave up of course). Does it all look better in this light? I'm just curious what posters think...

 

Yes.....because ultimately what your house is worth is NOT determined by you but by the buyers. All you have to do is to look at the Florida housing market. One can not determine the FMV without all the factors taken into account, the economy, world unrest, etc

 

It's a Seller's Market in major leagues and most people would understand it just from their own life experiences.

 

Alternative would have been for DD to proclaim hey it's on the players and keep trotting out Kelly/Buchholtz. Is that responsible management?

 

DD has credibility with the 25 players on the roster right now. They all know that he will do what it takes to give the group the best chance to get into the playoffs.

 

Wouldn't you want a boss like that?

Edited July 18, 2016 by Nick

[mvp 78]

Teams also have budgets, we were over the cap and the market was thin. It's a lot easier to go out and get another starter if you have more space, which is something the team might have done if they didn't make such blunders recently as Panda, and Castillo. We all got opinions though and it's easy to take credit when we are right and vanish when we are wrong. But things easily could have gone the other way, making the F.O. looking like geniuses. Yes I suppose it was a mistake however, taking the side of "you can never have enough pitching" has never exactly failed anyone.

 

Then don't pick up a $13M question mark's option?

[mvp 78]

Based on your logic we better trade for Hill right now. We don't have enough pitching.

 

It took an epic failure by Kelly and Buchholtz along with injury to E Rod to get us to where we are. Throw in regression from Owens and Johnson along with overvaluing Elias further reduced our starting corps.

 

Some of us didn't trust Kelly or Buchholz. We were right not to trust them. Once ERod went down, there were 3 question marks in the starting rotation.

[Hugh2]

Then don't pick up a $13M question mark's option?

 

I would have been fine with declining Clays option and signing another pitcher last year. Of course, I wanted one of Lester/Schezer the year before which would have made that unnecessary.

[Emp9]

Yes.....because ultimately what your house is worth is NOT determined by you but by the buyers. All you have to do is to look at the Florida housing market. One can not determine the FMV without all the factors taken into account, the economy, world unrest, etc

 

It's a Seller's Market in major leagues and most people would understand it just from their own life experiences.

 

Alternative would have been for DD to proclaim hey it's on the players and keep trotting out Kelly/Buchholtz. Is that responsible management?

 

DD has credibility with the 25 players on the roster right now. They all know that he will do what it takes to give the group the best chance to get into the playoffs.

 

Wouldn't you want a boss like that?

 

Well, my question was directed at the posters that hated giving up Espinoza for Pomeranz by itself or had serious issues with it it any way. You were on board w/ it from the get go, or am I mistaken?

[a700hitter]

Yup, the Sox waited to see what there most pressing needs would be, as the season progressed.

The back end of the rotation collapsed, but the Sox were strong enough in other areas to stay in contention.

 

If Pomeranz And Zeigler turn out to be solid contributers, the Sox got it right.

DD is different than Ben. He seems to have a knack for getting deals done. I had become used to ineptness at the trading deadlines where our GMs twiddled their thumbs and did not address the needs of the team. And then they made excuses. If I had foreseen how decisively and quickly that DD would address the needs of the team at the ASB, I would not have been quite so concerned. I have no problem with a "wait and see" approach if the GM can act effectively once they see the need. Those of us here who pointed out the need in the preseason identified the need with foresight and DD addressed the need on season.

[Hugh2]

DD is different than Ben. He seems to have a knack for getting deals done. I had become used to ineptness at the trading deadlines where our GMs twiddled their thumbs and did not address the needs of the team. And then they made excuses. If I had foreseen how decisively and quickly that DD would address the needs of the team at the ASB, I would not have been quite so concerned. I have no problem with a "wait and see" approach if the GM can act effectively once they see the need. Those of us here who pointed out the need in the preseason identified the need with foresight and DD addressed the need on season.

 

What did you expect the last several years??? aside from 2013 (when we won the world series) when were we ever in a position to buy under Ben C???

[Nick]

Well, my question was directed at the posters that hated giving up Espinoza for Pomeranz by itself or had serious issues with it it any way. You were on board w/ it from the get go, or am I mistaken?

 

Yes, I was on board. So were the players (obviously).

[Emp9]

I haven't seen this posted before - apologies if it has - but here's Brian Bannister's thoughts on Pomeranz:

http://www.weei.com/sports/boston/baseball/red-sox/john-tomase/2016/07/16/concerned-about-drew-pomeranzs-red-flags-brian

 

(I know, it's Tomase, but pretty good stuff here actually.)

 

Of course, he's a team employee, and what else is he supposed to say -- "Ehhh, yeah, not really sold on this guy myself"? -- but this does add to my (growing) hope that Pomeranz's 2016 performance is the real thing and not just a flash in the pan.

 

Thanks for this link If I haven't already said thanks for posting it. It's an interesting read and I'm trying to read between the lines on some things.

 

1) Does Bannister's recent promotion have anything to do w/ being correct in his assesment of Pomeranz's recent success? He said he kept tabs on him going back to the beginning of the season.

 

2) Are there parallels to be drawn w/ what he said of Pomeranz ( 6'-6" Lefty) to Owens ( 6'-6" Lefty)?

[mvp 78]

I would have been fine with declining Clays option and signing another pitcher last year. Of course, I wanted one of Lester/Schezer the year before which would have made that unnecessary.

 

I'm with you. I thought the Sox should have taken Lester AND Scherzer.

[Emp9]

Yes, I was on board. So were the players (obviously).

 

That's fine if you were. My point in asking you that was that you need zero convincing.

[mvp 78]

DD is different than Ben. He seems to have a knack for getting deals done. I had become used to ineptness at the trading deadlines where our GMs twiddled their thumbs and did not address the needs of the team. And then they made excuses. If I had foreseen how decisively and quickly that DD would address the needs of the team at the ASB, I would not have been quite so concerned. I have no problem with a "wait and see" approach if the GM can act effectively once they see the need. Those of us here who pointed out the need in the preseason identified the need with foresight and DD addressed the need on season.

 

Ben:

2012 - Fixed Theo's mess after the deadline

2013 - Got Peavy and Thornton, won WS

2014 - Sellers: traded Drew, Doubront, Peavy, Miller, Lackey and Lester

2015 - Last place, twiddled their thumbs (worked out better than 2014 trades)

[Dojji]

I think the job in 2015 was simply to sit pat and let the rookies develop. That mission was accomplished. BC isn't a bad GM, he did a very solid job in drafting and building up our arsenal of prospects, but I think a switch to a more aggressive go-get-your-man guy fit the need of the franchise when DD was brought in. Edited July 18, 2016 by Dojji

[User Name]

^This is on goddamn point.

[devildavid]

I realize Young has done very well for us this year, but to me, it's easier to find a decent LF'er (DMac, Nava, de Aza) mid season than a SP'er. The $6M spent on Young per season could have been used to sign someone like Hill or Fister. Even though risk was involved with either choice.

 

My own preference was to go bigger. I won't get into the whole Margot & Guerra package, but even after the Kimbrel trade, I still felt we could have gotten someone very special for Swihart, Devers plus maybe one or two from Holt/Hernandez/Marrero/Dubon, Chavis/Travis, Owens/Johnson/TBall or maybe even Kopech.

 

I have always liked Fister. He's had his ups and downs, but mostly is a decent pitcher. Plus, his contracts have been relatively cheap. He had a down year in 2015 and took a big pay cut to sign as a free agent with the Astros. I didn't like the quality of our pitching depth at the start of the season, so you are right, the money spent on Young might have been better used to sign Fister, even if for just one season. LF has been a revolving door this season anyways.

[a700hitter]

Ben:

2012 - Fixed Theo's mess after the deadline

2013 - Got Peavy and Thornton, won WS

2014 - Sellers: traded Drew, Doubront, Peavy, Miller, Lackey and Lester

2015 - Last place, twiddled their thumbs (worked out better than 2014 trades)

 

More often than not they twiddle thumbs -- Theo included. I am still shaking my head about Erik Bedard.

[Dojji]

More often than not they twiddle thumbs -- Theo included. I am still shaking my head about Erik Bedard.

 

What in particular about Bedard?

[Nick]

I think the job in 2015 was simply to sit pat and let the rookies develop. That mission was accomplished. BC isn't a bad GM, he did a very solid job in drafting and building up our arsenal of prospects, but I think a switch to a more aggressive go-get-your-man guy fit the need of the franchise when DD was brought in.

 

I agree.....no offense to 30/40 somethings on the board here, but in DD we have a grown up running the baseball side of things

[a700hitter]

What did you expect the last several years??? aside from 2013 (when we won the world series) when were we ever in a position to buy under Ben C???

I am including Theo in my statement.

[mvp 78]

More often than not they twiddle thumbs -- Theo included. I am still shaking my head about Erik Bedard.

 

Bedard had a decent career prior to coming to Boston. His numbers in Seattle that year had been good. The Sox didn't really give up anything valuable in return.