Red Sox Acquire Drew Pomeranz

[moonslav59]

I'm pretty sure that DD didn't actually want to do this, but felt he was forced to by the situation.

 

He "forced" himself into the situation by believing in quantity over quality concerning the 3-5 slots of our rotation last winter.

 

Your post seems to imply he had little to do with this situation arising.

[mvp 78]

Well I beg to differ, the whole point I keep going back to here is the importance of building a system and not giving away blue chip prospects lightly. That's exactly what we did here, and that's exactly what we didn't do in 2013 and initially it was said we did. So in the context of this argument I'd so it's totally relevant.

 

I never said we gave up blue chip prospects (though we did for 2007). My point was that the staff construction wasn't based on homegrown talent.

[User Name]

Not sure Pomeranz is a #2 outside of Petco, going from the most pitcher friendly park in the league to one of the more hitter friendly, and going to the best offensive division in the better offensive league, but that's fine since all we really needed is a #4 and he should be good for that.

 

If there's one thing about the whole trade that does make me legit nervous though, it's the idea that Pomeranz as a fulltime starter may be a Petco mirage. I hope not, and I don't think so, but the worry will be there until he shows up and delivers.

 

Home: 2.64 ERA, 1.11 WHIP

 

Away: 2.32 ERA, 1.01 WHIP.

 

This stuff takes 30 seconds to look up.

[greenwell]

Not sure Pomeranz is a #2 outside of Petco, going from the most pitcher friendly park in the league to one of the more hitter friendly, and going to the best offensive division in the better offensive league, but that's fine since all we really needed is a #4 and he should be good for that.

 

If there's one thing about the whole trade that does make me legit nervous though, it's the idea that Pomeranz as a fulltime starter may be a Petco mirage. I hope not, and I don't think so, but the worry will be there until he shows up and delivers.

 

Pomeranz ERA is actually higher at home than on the road.

[Dojji]

If this is it, and DD holds onto Moncada and Benintendi, and is ok trading away Espy because he wants to develop Groome and Kopech I can live with that. But if this is just a representation of everything he's done in the past and he will inevitably keep on trading away our top prospects....then I don't like it at all.

 

you do know that Jason Groome has yet to sign with the Red Sox yes?

[Dojji]

Home: 2.64 ERA, 1.11 WHIP

 

Away: 2.32 ERA, 1.01 WHIP.

 

This stuff takes 30 seconds to look up.

 

For some reason Baseball-Reference is lagging the hell out on me, too many ads or something.

[mvp 78]

When national services rank him #14 or there abouts, no grain of salt is needed.

 

I never said he wasn't a valuable pitcher.

[Bellhorn04]

He "forced" himself into the situation by believing in quantity over quality concerning the 3-5 slots of our rotation last winter.

 

Your post seems to imply he had little to do with this situation arising.

 

But if Buchholz or Kelly or Owens pitched as well as a lot of people hoped they might this situation wouldn't be what it is. There were a lot of things that led to this-most of them were inherited from Ben.

[mvp 78]

you do know that Jason Groome has yet to sign with the Red Sox yes?

 

You do know that he signed yesterday?

[mvp 78]

He "forced" himself into the situation by believing in quantity over quality concerning the 3-5 slots of our rotation last winter.

 

But I thought Kelly and Buchholz were quality arms, no?

[User Name]

There is inherent risk in pitchers that young which makes dealing them easier than dealing young position prospects. At the same time - a pitcher striking out almost a batter an inning as the youngest player in all of Low A with 95-99 velocity is pretty darn interesting ... age and performance for level is always noteworthy ... when a team signs a guy for whom the industry brings up "young Pedro" without howls of derisive laughter, you have to pause.

 

I will not many of the posters will snivel at some future point about the weakness of org pitching and where is the ceiling? I know where the ceiling went.

 

I am a bit surprised at the Hulk Smash approach taken with a Top 20 prospect and how little track record it actually brought back. Nobody is untouchable, but a big market has the luxury to keep the high ceiling guys ... especially with a vibrant farm system. This deal makes sense for Boston on a basic level - at the same time, San Diego clearly had to be thinking "you're giving us what??!!!"

 

My take on it is that the general consensus among talent evaluators is that Pomeranz "broke through" when he added the cutter, and they're gushing about his makeup and fire because he basically talked his way into being considered for a rotation spot. This is a big gamble for both sides because of the volatility of prospects and Pomeranz' track record, but as I've said before, DD is rarely wrong in these types of trades.

 

On the other hand, I am willing to bet that the Padres asked for Kopech and the Sox balked, as I said before.

[Hugh2]

I never said we gave up blue chip prospects (though we did for 2007). My point was that the staff construction wasn't based on homegrown talent.

 

No it wasn't, but Lester was a HUGE part of that 2013 team. What if this team had traded Lester away in 06 or 07 for some chips....would we have had that run in 2007? There is really no way to tell but it's not a stretch to say we would not have won in 2013.

[mvp 78]

My take on it is that the general consensus among talent evaluators is that Pomeranz "broke through" when he added the cutter, and they're gushing about his makeup and fire because he basically talked his way into being considered for a rotation spot. This is a big gamble for both sides because of the volatility of prospects and Pomeranz' track record, but as I've said before, DD is rarely wrong in these types of trades.

 

On the other hand, I am willing to bet that the Padres asked for Kopech and the Sox balked, as I said before.

 

I've heard this as well.

[mvp 78]

No it wasn't, but Lester was a HUGE part of that 2013 team. What if this team had traded Lester away in 06 or 07 for some chips....would we have had that run in 2007? There is really no way to tell but it's not a stretch to say we would not have won in 2013.

 

Lester was a very minor role in 2007. They certainly could have won without him.

 

Also, Lester was already an MLB fixture by 2007. Espinoza is still years and years away.

[sk7326]

My take on it is that the general consensus among talent evaluators is that Pomeranz "broke through" when he added the cutter, and they're gushing about his makeup and fire because he basically talked his way into being considered for a rotation spot. This is a big gamble for both sides because of the volatility of prospects and Pomeranz' track record, but as I've said before, DD is rarely wrong in these types of trades.

 

On the other hand, I am willing to bet that the Padres asked for Kopech and the Sox balked, as I said before.

 

Maybe. Kopech is a little further along, but has a pretty rock solid knucklehead rap sheet.

 

As if often the case - I don't argue the acquisition (you are making a leap of faith here, certainly his work with the cutter shows some reason to believe this is not a fluke - although currently his health is an outlier to the rest of his career) so much as the price.

 

Flags fly forever and whatnot.

[Palodios]

But if Buchholz or Kelly or Owens pitched as well as a lot of people hoped they might this situation wouldn't be what it is. There were a lot of things that led to this-most of them were inherited from Ben.

 

Objectively, I don't understand how anyone can say good things about Dumbo's job so far. He's spent hundreds of millions and traded three top 50 prospects. What do we have to show for it? Third place and most of his acquisitions are on the DL.

 

For the prices he's paid, we should have two aces.

[Bellhorn04]

Objectively, I don't understand how anyone can say good things about Dumbo's job so far. He's spent hundreds of millions and traded three top 50 prospects. What do we have to show for it? Third place and most of his acquisitions are on the DL.

 

For the prices he's paid, we should have two aces.

 

Third place? That's a little disingenuous. We're actually in second, technically, 2 games out in the division, 3.5 out in the league, with almost half a season to go.

[d-money]

Well i didn't want them to deal espinoza but at least they signed groome. Lets hope that groome turns out to be the real deal.

[mvp 78]

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/drew-pomeranz-on-his-knuckle-curve/

 

Click if you want to see a GIF of Pomeranz making Ortiz look silly.

[mvp 78]

Objectively, I don't understand how anyone can say good things about Dumbo's job so far. He's spent hundreds of millions and traded three top 50 prospects. What do we have to show for it? Third place and most of his acquisitions are on the DL.

 

For the prices he's paid, we should have two aces.

 

They kept their best prospects. Aces take a larger haul than what we gave up. Guerra is also well out of the top 50 at this point.

[d-money]

I like the fact that pomeranz has some size. We going for it all. We better get on a roll now!!!!

[mvp 78]

Objectively, I don't understand how anyone can say good things about Dumbo's job so far. He's spent hundreds of millions and traded three top 50 prospects. What do we have to show for it? Third place and most of his acquisitions are on the DL.

 

For the prices he's paid, we should have two aces.

 

Objectively, we're not in last place this year which is a large step up from 2014 and 2015.

[greenwell]

Objectively, I don't understand how anyone can say good things about Dumbo's job so far. He's spent hundreds of millions and traded three top 50 prospects. What do we have to show for it? Third place and most of his acquisitions are on the DL.

 

For the prices he's paid, we should have two aces.

 

4th place in the league and no gm would have predicted Price's first half season being this bad or the injuries to Kimbrel and Smith. Their offense is the best in baseball and it's not even close. The pitching is closer to the middle than the bottom and it's largely due to the horrendous numbers put up by 4-5. This trade could have a drastic effect if Pomeranz is just decent.

[southpaw777]

Why are people saying this guy is over his innings hes ever pitched before..or at least close...

You guys might want to add Milb IP as well...they do count you know..

2011 - 119.1IP

2012 - 147.1IP

2013 - 112.2IP

2014 - 115.1IP

Now i understand he had an injury and was a swingman..point is hes pitched almost 150 one year and has been hanging around 120 betewwen starts and the pen. It may have been a few years ago, but the point remains he has pitched more ininngs than people are saying. minor league counts as well. Hes a big kid at 6'6 and 240lbs. Im guessing he can handle more than some think. Is there a concern? sure, but not nearly as much as those saying there is.

Edited July 15, 2016 by southpaw777

[Hugh2]

Why are people saying this guy is over his innings hes ever pitched before..or at least close...

You guys might want to add Milb IP as well...they do count you know..

2011 - 119.1IP

2012 - 147.1IP

2013 - 112.2IP

2014 - 115.1IP

Now i understand he had an injury and was a swingman..point is hes pitched almost 150 one year and has been hanging around 120 betewwen starts and the pen. It may have been a few years ago, but the point remains he has pitched more ininngs than people are saying. minor league counts as well. Hes a big kid at 6'6 and 240lbs. Im guessing he can handle more than some think. Is there a concern?msure, but not nearly as much as those saying there is.

 

I've specifically said he's never pitched over 102 in the big leagues and 150 in a MLB season. 147 is his high??? and there is zero concern if he can go 200+ and into the post season???

[SoxnCycles]

I like the spirit without liking the target. This sort of price is one I would have preferred on a bigger fish - or a Verlander sneak attack as we had posited in the past.

 

This.

 

Looks like another overpay, but if Pomeranz doesn't hit the wall, innings-wise and his numbers aren't propped up by west coast venues, this should get the sox the division.

 

I guess we'll know by Oct if DD knows what he's doing.

[d-money]

That concerns me. I hope he's durable. He has good stuff. Well this team won't have anymore excuses. Are they done making moves? Can they get a bullpen arm?

[Hugh2]

Lester was a very minor role in 2007. They certainly could have won without him.

 

Also, Lester was already an MLB fixture by 2007. Espinoza is still years and years away.

 

Yes he was already a fixture because they held onto him and let him develop. Also as pointed out earlier trading away a top prospect helped them win in 2004 so I'm not against ever trading top prospects I just A.) don't want to be fleeced and B.) don't want to go overboard and gut the system.

 

With this trade I do think we overpaid but we haven't gut the system, and I understand it's a sellers market and this is the price you pay. But Warrent Buffett didn't become rich from always buying at the top and selling on the bottom, if trades like this is the norm and teams always go for it at all cost there will come a day when your team is s***.

[mvp 78]

This.

 

Looks like another overpay, but if Pomeranz doesn't hit the wall, innings-wise and his numbers aren't propped up by west coast venues, this should get the sox the division.

 

I guess we'll know by Oct if DD knows what he's doing.

 

My first reaction was that it was an overpay. After sleeping on it, I feel a little better.

 

I'm always amused by the "well they shoulda grabbed this other guy" or "they shoulda just given worse prospects for this guy" crowd. We'll never really know what was available and who the other teams want.

 

At the end of the day, you either want to upgrade your starting rotation or you don't.

[d-money]

Where's casey kelley these days? Nobody knows what espinoza will become