Red Sox Acquire Drew Pomeranz

[cp176]

I did not measure him myself, I just read the scouting reports and have heard from multiple reports that he's grown. I have zero reason to not trust that. I'm very calm, just because I have an opinion that differs from most of the people in here and wish to discuss it doesn't mean I'm otherwise.

 

Also, can you show me any proof or reason to believe they are questioning Espinozas make up? I've never heard anything bad about his make up ever, at all, not once. Where did you hear that?

 

You certainly are entitled to express yourself here Hugh. It is encouraged. It does kind of look though that you are reading the same information that most of us have read. You are entitled to your opinions but I don't think that you brought anything new to the table with respect to Espinoza. We have all seen the videos and read the reports from everything we can find on him. No one likes the fact that he is gone but the reality is that he is multiple years away from playing at the major league level. With this trade the Red sox got better not just for today but for the foreseeable future.

[croc]

Pomeranz is averaging 6 IP per start. This is a significant upgrade to the #4 & 5 starters.

 

In limited action he's done well in AL East ball parks

 

His 2016 splits are better away from SD http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/31010/drew-pomeranz

 

They have him for 3 years

[FredLynn]

Anderson is not probably 5'10 he's about 6'1 and he's put on at least 20 LB's since he's entered the organization.

 

Pablo put on 30

[Hugh2]

You certainly are entitled to express yourself here Hugh. It is encouraged. It does kind of look though that you are reading the same information that most of us have read. You are entitled to your opinions but I don't think that you brought anything new to the table with respect to Espinoza. We have all seen the videos and read the reports from everything we can find on him. No one likes the fact that he is gone but the reality is that he is multiple years away from playing at the major league level. With this trade the Red sox got better not just for today but for the foreseeable future.

 

I never said they didn't get better. And I hate arguments like this because I feel like it makes it seem like I'm taking the position that Pom makes the team worst, he doesn't. I'm excited to have him here, I just fear what we will lose in Espinoza. Yes he might not ever make it, but if we took that position with every prospect we wouldn't have the team we have now. The days of buying teams are over, you have to develop talent, and if I'm given up some of that talent which is regarded as one of the best guys in the minors with perhaps the highest ceiling.....I would have hoped for a more proven guy. Now Pom can prove me wrong, but if people think he is without risk they are mistaken.

[Hugh2]

Pablo put on 30

 

Well, Pablo should have lost 30.

[Hugh2]

This conversation is pointless and going in circles. I hate the trade, you guys like it. f*** it, it is what it is. I can get on board with being happy that the team got a guy who solidifies this rotation, and if history is any lesson he might be getting better and we have him for two years.

 

DD has made every move so far to fill every hole, this team is a legit contender for the WS now. I can get behind that, but I will remain disappointed we lost Espinoza, but I'll try to shelve those feelings until he's winning the Cy Young in 4 years from now.

[Kingface]

Well, Pablo should have lost 30.

 

...........you still are hating on fat people I see.....

[FredLynn]

So who goes now? SP now include Price, Wright, Porcello, Pomeranz, ERod, (Buchholz)....and in the pen, assuming Kelly comes back, there will be Kimbrel, Ziegler, Taz, Koji, Barnes, Ross, Layne, Kelly, Hembree, (Buchholz). Thats 5-6 SP (if you want to call Buchholz one) and 10 guys in the pen. Two too many I think. Rodriguez hasn't had enough starts to write him off just yet (6). Does Buchholz get released, finally?

[sk7326]

DD got an All Star pitcher with 2 1/2 years of control before July 15th. Not bad. Let's hope that our scouts got it right. Maybe there will be more to come. There is room for Hill.

 

An All Star whose track record is exactly one half of a season. For all the sniveling about the Porcello trade - from a valuation perspective this is quite a bit sillier.

[Hugh2]

...........you still are hating on fat people I see.....

 

I was against the Pablo signing the day it was made, you should remember that. I'll never forget that comment you made pointing out how I hate fat people by picking letters out of a mutli paragraph response. I literally spit water out of my mouth and all over my computer screen that day.

[mvp 78]

...........you still are hating on fat people I see.....

 

My health insuramce would be way cheaper if it wasn't for fatties.

[mvp 78]

So who goes now? SP now include Price, Wright, Porcello, Pomeranz, ERod, (Buchholz)....and in the pen, assuming Kelly comes back, there will be Kimbrel, Ziegler, Taz, Koji, Barnes, Ross, Layne, Kelly, Hembree, (Buchholz). Thats 5-6 SP (if you want to call Buchholz one) and 10 guys in the pen. Two too many I think. Rodriguez hasn't had enough starts to write him off just yet (6). Does Buchholz get released, finally?

GTFO Buchholz!

[cp176]

This is how my friend Brian frames this deal on FB.

 

" Espinoza is only 18yrs old, a good 3-4yrs away from being a big leaguer (if he even makes it)....sox fans are never happy...if the sox didn't make a big deal we would bitch, they make a big deal and we bitch....sox fans are like a woman, they're impossible to please...haha. ..but im on board with this move...they arent too far from being a serious contender, THIS YEAR!!! I'll worry about 2020 in 2020...i care more about 2016"

 

This is so so true. I think that it has to do with the long winters. f*** being happy. We just gave up a kid who has had some really good s*** written about him and if we are willing to wait 5 years may be good for a 27 year old All-star who might just be coming into his own. Our future (5+ years from now) has just been sold down the river. While Im on my rant - these 90* days make me long for 3 feet of snow in my driveway.

[Kingface]

I was against the Pablo signing the day it was made, you should remember that. I'll never forget that comment you made pointing out how I hate fat people by picking letters out of a mutli paragraph response. I literally spit water out of my mouth and all over my computer screen that day.

 

HAHAHA!!!!!! That friggn' post took me an hour to do!!!!! The Tito's and tonic's probably didn't help........

[sk7326]

This is so so true. I think that it has to do with the long winters. f*** being happy. We just gave up a kid who has had some really good s*** written about him and if we are willing to wait 5 years may be good for a 27 year old All-star who might just be coming into his own. Our future (5+ years from now) has just been sold down the river. While Im on my rant - these 90* days make me long for 3 feet of snow in my driveway.

 

the logic is fine - but the choice of pitcher is not really. A team with the big dollars the Sox has has a farm system to produce ceiling and then sell the other stuff. If you snivel about org lacking pitching star power - this is what happened.

[Jack Flap]

I was against the Pablo signing the day it was made, you should remember that. I'll never forget that comment you made pointing out how I hate fat people by picking letters out of a mutli paragraph response. I literally spit water out of my mouth and all over my computer screen that day.

 

Heh...I remember this.

 

Good to see you around, King.

[Kingface]

FWIW......I like the deal in that I think we got a solid #3 starter who seems to be on the up and up, for cheap money and have him for a few more years. I really don't like giving up Espinoza. I'm probably in the minority on this one...and it's moot for health reasons...but I would have given up a healthy Swihart for this trade over Espinoza any day without batting an eye. I have heard Devers mentioned for a trade instead of Espinoza....and I admit I'm a Devers fanboy....but he has been on fire as of late and still has the best power hit tool in the minor league system...AND is just 19.

[FredLynn]

An All Star whose track record is exactly one half of a season. For all the sniveling about the Porcello trade - from a valuation perspective this is quite a bit sillier.

 

Thats not true. His ERA+ in 2014 was 159; in 2015 it was 108; and this year it is 161. Admittedly, he seems injury prone. Thats my only concern about this deal.

[Kingface]

Heh...I remember this.

 

Good to see you around, King.

 

Good to see you too Jack. I pop in from time to time. I should make more of an effort to contribute more though.....especially now that we have something that actually looks like a team!!

[cp176]

Now I get this for sure but if the objective was to acquire a pitcher this year from the available list which included Pomeranz and Teheran for sure, it was going to take a big time prospect to get one of them or a whole bunch of really pretty good ones. Very likely could have cost us Benintendi or I shudder to think even Moncada. Both of whom are on the verge of helping us now and for many years. For the record, kopech who looks very good and is a lot closer to boston than Espinoza is still with us. The other option was to do very little or maybe nothing at all. I'm not happy that we are losing Espinoza but I understand the move. We are better now and quite possibly for the foreseeable future.

[Meh]

Great trade, Pomeranz will be a nice #2 for you guys, and he's cost controlled. You guys are in a win mode, you've got an excellent core. Still a great farm system with two good pitching prospects. I am not a fan of Devers, but I'm a huge fan of Benintendi and Moncada. I think Dave had one more trade up his sleeve, maybe for Lucroy from the Brewers centering around Devers, Swihart, and Ockimey.

[NativeBostonian]

The Red Sox weren't going to get a pitcher like this for nothing. There wasnt much out there. We knew it was going to hurt. Just count you blessing it wasn't Benintendi and Moncada people.

[Nick]

So it's true about Sox fans...what a buch of whinny little babies......

 

Trade has to benefit both teams. It's not DD's fault that we ended up with current sorry ass rotation. It's unconscionable to let this year's productive offensive team go to waste. You really never know how many chance you get. DD did what he had to do. I bet the Sox will still go after Hill, if not now then in off season.

 

It's a great day for my Sox. We came to terms with the next Espinoza, perhaps with higher upside.

 

We also kept Momcada and Benintendi.

[sk7326]

Thats not true. His ERA+ in 2014 was 159; in 2015 it was 108; and this year it is 161. Admittedly, he seems injury prone. Thats my only concern about this deal.

 

first season with 100 IP pitched. Last three seasons in pitcher wonderlands. Pomeranz improvement might be real - Sox paid a heavy price to find out. Hey, the Dodgers liked Delino DeShields too.

[User Name]

Is it possible to love and hate a trade at the same time?

[sk7326]

Is it possible to love and hate a trade at the same time?

 

I like the spirit without liking the target. This sort of price is one I would have preferred on a bigger fish - or a Verlander sneak attack as we had posited in the past.

[Nick]

I dare anyone unhappy with the trade to go face to face with Bradley, Betts and Xander and tell them "great season, can you keep this up till 2020 when Espinoza arrives?"...Really guys? We had 5 top 50 prospects and now we still will have 5 when Gomez passes his physicals tomorrow.

 

This is on the heels of 2 last place finishes. What do you tell the owner? Be patient after I talked him into handing out $210M contract to Price? You are delusional.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Nick

[Maxbialystock]

Best talksox thread I've read, and I've read all 12 pages. Well done, everyone. I knew nothing about either pitcher, so this was very educational, but I really liked all the other considerations brought to the discussion. I am not a DD fan and have a lot of respect for moonslav, but this time I think the ayes make more sense than the nays even though I agree this is a gamble.

[sk7326]

I dare anyone unhappy with the trade to go face to face with Bradley, Betts and Xander and tell them "great season, can you keep this up till 2020 when Espinoza arrives?"...Really guys? We had 5 top 50 prospects and now we still will have 5 when Gomez passes his physicals tomorrow.

 

This is on the heels of 2 last place finishes. What do you tell the owner? Be patient after I talked him into handing out $210M contract to Price? You are delusional.

 

it's not his job to make the kiddos happy today - his job is to do best by the franchise. Now he might have done that - but nothing about Pomeranz says "give up one of the best pitching prospects in the minors". Now his improvement and durability might not be dumb luck - but the Red Sox paid a price as if it will stick, and that is a very aggressive assumption to say the least.

[a700hitter]

Casey kelly wasn't as highly regarded as Espinoza. And yes, good for you, you found an example of a prospect who busted, there are many of those. It happens. But I specifically remember people left and right bringing up Lars Anderson when I advocated to never trade away Bogaerts.

 

So yes, Espinoza could never crack a MLB rotation, he could also be a future MLB Cy Young winner. When you bet on young talent, you usually end up winning in the long run.

We have bet on lots of young talent that have made it to the majors and thrived, and we are betting on other young guys to make an impact. They are not all going to make it. maybe espinoza will make it, but not for 4 years. That is a long time for the core to for a chance to win.