Red Sox Acquire Drew Pomeranz

[S5Dewey]

You know who does have a history of disappearing in the playoffs? David bleeping Price... You know who else will probably struggle? Steven bleeping Wright...

 

This has been my concern with Price ever since Day 1. He has a history of not exactly becoming "Big Game David". However, in order to win it you have to get to it and having Price gives us a better chance of getting to it. After that we hope for the best, I guess.

[moonslav59]

Because he's 18 and facing guys 3-4 years older than him. Also 18 year olds don't throw lots of innings and are building up arm strength and still filling out, this is his very first full season of professional baseball. This is a kid who has never thrown more than 48.1 innings in a season....think about that. That can throw a guys mechanics off but scouts seem little concerned with his struggles....if anything it will make him a better pitcher one day.

 

I specifically remember soxprospects predicting he would struggle more the rest of the year yet his prospect status wouldn't drop one bit. I'll double down on that bet. In the absence of injury I'd suspect a big jump forward when he enters his second full season at 19 and lot stronger.

 

Well said, and how many 18 year old pitchers ever break into the top 14 rankings? This guy was a unique asset.

[a700hitter]

Because he's 18 and facing guys 3-4 years older than him. Also 18 year olds don't throw lots of innings and are building up arm strength and still filling out, this is his very first full season of professional baseball. This is a kid who has never thrown more than 48.1 innings in a season....think about that. That can throw a guys mechanics off but scouts seem little concerned with his struggles....if anything it will make him a better pitcher one day.

 

I specifically remember soxprospects predicting he would struggle more the rest of the year yet his prospect status wouldn't drop one bit. I'll double down on that bet. In the absence of injury I'd suspect a big jump forward when he enters his second full season at 19 and lot stronger.

Did Pedro ever struggle like that?

[mvp 78]

From the Soxprospects article: Given the team they have right now, especially on offense, and the lack of starting pitching options both at the big league level and in the high minors, the opportunity to acquire a 27-year-old pitcher who has shown the ability to be an impact starter and has two more years of team control was likely too good to pass up.

 

It comes down to: do you want your MLB team to succeed, or do you want to hoard your prospects without regard for the on-field product? I prefer a mix of both and honestly, Dombroski hasn't gutted the system.

[mvp 78]

Because he's 18 and facing guys 3-4 years older than him. Also 18 year olds don't throw lots of innings and are building up arm strength and still filling out, this is his very first full season of professional baseball. This is a kid who has never thrown more than 48.1 innings in a season....think about that. That can throw a guys mechanics off but scouts seem little concerned with his struggles....if anything it will make him a better pitcher one day.

 

That's not the concern. The guys at Soxprospects are constantly saying how he is 1 year younger than the guys he's pitching against. Any 21-22 guy still at Espinoza's level will be out of baseball in the next few years.

[Hugh2]

You know who does have a history of disappearing in the playoffs? David bleeping Price... You know who else will probably struggle? Steven bleeping Wright...

 

I agree 100% which is exactly why I'm more of a fan of trying to develop pitching. Yes all prospects don't make it, but I heard one scout say yesterday and I'm paraphrasing here "If you are trying to compare Espinoza to a past Red Sox pitching prospect you can't because there hasn't been one like him in decades"

Sure he could bust, but you keep a guy like him Kopech and Groome in your system and there is a very good chance you're going to end up with at least one good pitcher.

 

People say this team can't develop pitching, well that's because good young pitching is the rarest commodity in MLB and we don't exactly have the best reputation of trading for pitching and signing pitchers either.

[Hugh2]

That's not the concern. The guys at Soxprospects are constantly saying how he is 1 year younger than the guys he's pitching against. Any 21-22 guy still at Espinoza's level will be out of baseball in the next few years.

 

Listen I'm not telling people this team isn't better, or you have to be concerned with this trade like me. But liking this trade doesn't have to be analogous with trying to water down how good Espinoza is and what his potential is.

[mvp 78]

Listen I'm not telling people this team isn't better, or you have to be concerned with this trade like me. But liking this trade doesn't have to be analogous with trying to water down how good Espinoza is and what his potential is.

 

Espinoza is good. He has great potential. At the end of the day, it's just potential.

[mvp 78]

I agree 100% which is exactly why I'm more of a fan of trying to develop pitching. Yes all prospects don't make it, but I heard one scout say yesterday and I'm paraphrasing here "If you are trying to compare Espinoza to a past Red Sox pitching prospect you can't because there hasn't been one like him in decades"

Sure he could bust, but you keep a guy like him Kopech and Groome in your system and there is a very good chance you're going to end up with at least one good pitcher.

 

People say this team can't develop pitching, well that's because good young pitching is the rarest commodity in MLB and we don't exactly have the best reputation of trading for pitching and signing pitchers either.

 

Funny how they won 3 WS without obtaining pitching.

[a700hitter]

Maybe the Red Sox have done an unusually masterful job of pumping and dumping a prospect before he got exposed.

[Hugh2]

Excellent point. The Red Sox have not been some pitching factory turning out top starters regularly. Until they start producing quality starters more often than once every 10 years, any high ceiling prospect is suspect to me.

 

Well if you trade away your top pitching prospects you're never going to develop a good one either. Also good young pitching is the rarest commodity in baseball, and it's very hard to draft and develop. Especially when you don't normally draft in the top 10 every year like other teams.

[mvp 78]

Did Pedro ever struggle like that?

 

Pedro threw better as a 19 year old in AAA than Espinoza is doing as an 18 year old in A. We'll see if Espinoza is pitching well in AAA next year.

[a700hitter]

If I am a Padres fan, I am saying wait, we just gave up a 27 year old pitcher who made his first All Star team for a kid in A Ball with a 4+ ERA? WTH!

 

But the naysayers of this trade are in good company with our resident Yankee Fan.

[Hugh2]

Funny how they won 3 WS without obtaining pitching.

 

It's also funny that they won the last two with pitchers they developed. And in 2004 team was headlined by two aces they acquired via trade or FA, not via trading for a somewhat unproven #2 #3 starter.

[mvp 78]

Well if you trade away your top pitching prospects you're never going to develop a good one either. Also good young pitching is the rarest commodity in baseball, and it's very hard to draft and develop. Especially when you don't normally draft in the top 10 every year like other teams.

 

Which pitching prospect did they trade away that became good?

[Bellhorn04]

Well if you trade away your top pitching prospects you're never going to develop a good one either. Also good young pitching is the rarest commodity in baseball, and it's very hard to draft and develop. Especially when you don't normally draft in the top 10 every year like other teams.

 

Unfortunately the 2016 major league rotation had big holes and guys like Owens and Johnson were no help.

[Hugh2]

If I am a Padres fan, I am saying wait, we just gave up a 27 year old pitcher who made his first All Star team for a kid in A Ball with a 4+ ERA? WTH!

 

But the naysayers of this trade are in good company with our resident Yankee Fan.

 

If you're a Padres fan you're saying that you're 19 games out of first place and you just acquired a guy you bought recently for garbage and turned him into your #1 prospect and one of the best prospects in baseball.

[Dojji]

The only two words needed to understand this trade are as follows.

 

"Sellers. Market."

 

We needed starting pitching and everyone knew it. And starting pitching is the one thing that is never out of demand. No team is going to cut us a break in that circumstance so anyone we got would cost us something we don't want to lose. Of the available guys to lose, a very high potential A baller is one of the better choices. Of the available options of who to get bent over for, Pomeranz is a surprisingly good choice, I like the way DD is thinking here, he's got the demonstrated skillset to be durable and reasonably effective, and anyone better established than Pomeranz would be even more expensive.

 

I'm also glad that we picked up someone reasonably young when we're trading top prospects away. We won't have much direct control over Pomeranz, but if it works out, he's young enough to re-sign and that's a good thing.

 

I get that Espinosa is a potential stud, but we don't need potential right now. We are in range of a playoff berth for the first time in 3 years, this is absolutely not the time to be penny wise and pound foolish with our prospect pool. We absolutely could not fail to trade for a starter, doing so would be tantamount to throwing the season away. Since we were officially desperate other teams were going to ask for the moon and stars for anyone we picked up. This is the best deal DD could make and a better one than I could have thought of if I'm being honest.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Dojji

[mvp 78]

It's also funny that they won the last two with pitchers they developed. And in 2004 team was headlined by two aces they acquired via trade or FA, not via trading for a somewhat unproven #2 #3 starter.

 

The 2013 staff was Lester, trade, trade, trade, Buchholz (who was injured). The bullpen was FA and trades aside from Taz, Doubront and Workman. Less than 50% was homegrown.

[mvp 78]

If you're a Padres fan you're saying that you're 19 games out of first place and you just acquired a guy you bought recently for garbage and turned him into your #1 prospect and one of the best prospects in baseball.

 

I agree with this. These are the moves the Padres need to make, not the garbage pail collection of OFers they've been going for the past 2 years.

[Bellhorn04]

If you're a Padres fan you're saying that you're 19 games out of first place and you just acquired a guy you bought recently for garbage and turned him into your #1 prospect and one of the best prospects in baseball.

 

So maybe you can look forward to good times in 2020.

[moonslav59]

http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/prospects/rankings/top-100-prospects/2006/26660.html

 

Here's the list from 10 years ago. Sure seems like there is a lot of hit or miss guys in here and many that could have been used to acquire a #2 starter.

 

Umm, I think your list supports my position more than yours. These are the pitchers ranked 14 or higher:

6) Liriano

7) Billingsley

8) Verlander

10) Cain

 

How about 2007?

1) Dice-K

4) P Hughes

5) H Bailey

10) Miller

11) Lincecum

16) Gallardo

 

2004?

2) Felix

7) Kazmir

13) Cain

16) A Miller

 

2008:

3) Chamberlain

4) Buchholz

7) Kershaw

8) F Morales

9) Bailey

10) D Price

15) Jake McGee

17) Wade Davis

 

Yes, some did not do all that great, but many more did very well. Even the ones who did not do all that well may easily end up with a much better 5-8 initial years than Pomeranz will put up.

[Hugh2]

While a few don't like it, it seems like the consensus is that most Padres fans really like this deal.

 

http://forums.sandiegouniontribune.com/showthread.php?t=132594&page=15

 

http://www.forums.mlb.com/discussions/San_Diego_Padres/General/Pomeranz_to_BoSox/ml-padres/43223.1?nav=messages

 

Also if you go back further, most Padre fans knew they were out of contention and calling for their team to be sellers. They knew they were sellers and knew Pomeranz was their best chip.

[mvp 78]

But most of those guys didn't pitch as well as Pomeranz has this season.

 

I see Kershaw, Price, Felix, Lincecum and Verlander (maybe Cain) as the only guys it would have been dumb to trade for when they were 18 and 4 years away from starting. The majority of those guys are expendable at age 18 for Pomeranz.

[Hugh2]

So maybe you can look forward to good times in 2020.

 

If you're a Padres fan you sure can.

[mvp 78]

While a few don't like it, it seems like the consensus is that most Padres fans really like this deal.

 

http://forums.sandiegouniontribune.com/showthread.php?t=132594&page=15

 

http://www.forums.mlb.com/discussions/San_Diego_Padres/General/Pomeranz_to_BoSox/ml-padres/43223.1?nav=messages

 

Also if you go back further, most Padre fans knew they were out of contention and calling for their team to be sellers. They knew they were sellers and knew Pomeranz was their best chip.

 

I think they made out well. Not every trade has to involve a winner and a loser.

[mvp 78]

If you're a Padres fan you sure can.

 

They have nothing else.

[Dojji]

Funny how they won 3 WS without obtaining pitching.

 

Funny how 2 of those WS were on the backs of traded-for pitchers. 04 Schilling, 07 Beckett

[SoxnCycles]

All true, but he was traded for a guy who's never sniffed anything above Class A yet. At least Pomeratz has a track record.

 

I haven't seen Espinoza pitch and I was 'fired up' about him based on what I heard, but at the end of the day he's still a prospect. Granted, a good prospect, but he got traded for an established ML player, someone who's proven he can at least get to the ML's.

 

This trade may turn around and bite us on the ass in five years. Who knows? But for right now we got an established pitcher and gave up one who's three steps below Major League Baseball. Given the failure rate for prospects that's a gamble I'm willing to take.

 

I'm already seeing a "clever" nickname for Pomeranz, should he bomb in boston.

[Bellhorn04]

Funny how 2 of those WS were on the backs of traded-for pitchers. 04 Schilling, 07 Beckett

 

The only homegrown starter who played a role in the titles was Lester.