Red Sox Acquire Drew Pomeranz

[SoxnCycles]

If we win the WS then nobody will give a damn. I just hope Pomeranz's durable. He's a big guy.

 

That's the name of the game.

Winning a WS would take a lot of the sting out of losing Espinoza.

[SoxnCycles]

Not true of everybody. There is still griping about the Iggy-Peavy trade.

 

That's because the 2013 team was lucky.

[Slasher9]

The job of the GM is to trade away the right prospects. Holding onto every prospect is bad business. You need to put trust in the scouts that say whether a deal is good or not.

 

I understand that there is concern for the future, I feel the same way, but the farm system hasn't been gutted. We held onto our 3 best prospects and acquired a #2.

are you basing the #2 label on this years sample size?

[Hugh2]

You keep harping on the fact that Pomeranian has never pitched more than 150 innings in a season but you are all goo goo eyed over a kid who hasn't pitched 50 innings in A ball.

 

You should be excluded from this conversation. You're a Yankees fan and therefore have zero concept of what it is like to have a farm system and have guys come up and contribute. Just because Espinoza hasn't pitched a lot of innings doesn't mean he's not one of the most talented young pitchers in the game. There is a reason why he's one of BA's MLB.com's BP's Fangraphs and everyone elses top ranked pitching prospect. Young pitchers need to build up strength and stamina, you don't go from pitching 40-50 innings a season to pitching 200. That's how you get TJ surgey, or a blown out shoulder.

[mvp 78]

I love his curve ball. Does he throw the cut fastball?

 

Boy does he ever!

[mvp 78]

full stop. what???!!!!!!

 

In my argument, it didn't matter if the players were acquired by FA or trading, it was just that they weren't generally hoarded prospects.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

You should be excluded from this conversation. You're a Yankees fan and therefore have zero concept of what it is like to have a farm system and have guys come up and contribute.

 

What a dumbass statement.

 

See, unlike you, I have followed baseball before 2004.

 

So I do know what it's like to have guys like Jeter, Rivera, Williams, Pettite, Posada to come up through the system as well as more recent guys like Cano and Hughes.

 

Try again?

[mvp 78]

Ok, I think this may be a better way of laying out my argument. If Pomeranz had been a MLB starter his entire MLB career, and put up the numbers he's putting up this year this would be a really good trade for the Sox and I'd be on board with it, but he hasn't. He's a reliever who has converted back to a starter successfully for 1/2 a season. He has ZERO track record of holding that up in the post season let alone a 32 game season. People are acting like we got a proven commodity we didn't, DD took a risk.

 

He was a starter who was brought up as a 22 year old in Colorado and got hit around (no surprise there). He pitched well as a starter in Oakland in 2014 and was a fulltime reliever in 2015 because the A's didn't like that he had only 2 pitches. He's developed a third pitch this season and it has been great for him. He's basically a different pitcher.

 

Price has zero track record of holding up in October. Most pitchers don't have that track record.

[mvp 78]

are you basing the #2 label on this years sample size?

 

He is pitching better than Porcello right now and I believe that Wright is going to start experiencing diminishing returns. He is our 2nd best starter right now.

[TheBabeStrikesBack]

You should be excluded from this conversation. You're a Yankees fan and therefore have zero concept of what it is like to have a farm system and have guys come up and contribute. Just because Espinoza hasn't pitched a lot of innings doesn't mean he's not one of the most talented young pitchers in the game. There is a reason why he's one of BA's MLB.com's BP's Fangraphs and everyone elses top ranked pitching prospect. Young pitchers need to build up strength and stamina, you don't go from pitching 40-50 innings a season to pitching 200. That's how you get TJ surgey, or a blown out shoulder.

 

But the fact of the matter is one guy is getting it done at the major league level while the other is still a question mark at single A.

[cp176]

I love it when people think they can know everything they need to know about a prospect by looking at a box score.

 

Or reading the same reports published that we all see and read and watching the available video. Believe it or not some of us are as educated and as up to date as you are. We just might not agree with you. What I love is redundancy and condescension.

[mvp 78]

What a dumbass statement.

 

See, unlike you, I have followed baseball before 2004.

 

So I do know what it's like to have guys like Jeter, Rivera, Williams, Pettite, Posada to come up through the system as well as more recent guys like Cano and Hughes.

 

Try again?

 

If you spent less time trolling this forum, maybe people would listen to you for once?

[User Name]

Seriously Hugh, you bring great insight and I respect your POV and opinions, but the "I know more about prospects than all of you combined" schtick is really f***ing annoying. Stick to making your points without trying to diminish everyone else's knowledge about prospects. Except for the Yankees fan. He's fair game, and you can s*** on him as much as you want.

[Slasher9]

Pedro never struggled at any level at any age.

 

pedro's 18 yo season:

Pioneer League

3.62 ERA / 77IP / 74H / 40BB / 1.48 WHIP / K-W 2.09

 

Espy's (thus far):

Greenville A Ball

4.38 ERA / 76IP / 77H / 27BB / 1.36 WHIP / K-W 2.67

[Hugh2]

pedro's 18 yo season:

Pioneer League

3.62 ERA / 77IP / 74H / 40BB / 1.48 WHIP / K-W 2.09

 

Espy's (thus far):

Greenville A Ball

4.38 ERA / 76IP / 77H / 27BB / 1.36 WHIP / K-W 2.67

 

This was the same guy who said he didn't give a s*** about his minor league stats when I pointed out Travis Shaw couldn't hit lefties. Looks like DD agreed with me there.

 

People who make these kind of statements usually aren't huge prospect followers and look at box score here and there. The most talented prospects can have bad seasons for COUNTLESS reasons that is in no way an indictment on their talent.

 

Nolan Ryan pitched 78 innings with exactly Espinozas 4.38 era in rookie ball. Randy Johnson much older in A ball (21) had a 5.93 ERA, only 27 ip though.

 

Noah Syndergaard at 21 was in AAA and in 133 innings pitched put up a 4.40 ERA but he was still a consensus top 10 prospect in all of baseball because everyone knew how talented he was. So if someone in here without any scouting references or first hand knowledge wants to tell me Espinoza doesn't have talent through the roof because of a A ball slash line at 18 with nothing else to go on.....I'm going to tell them they are full of s***.

[Slasher9]

In my argument, it didn't matter if the players were acquired by FA or trading, it was just that they weren't generally hoarded prospects.

 

got it.

[Hugh2]

What a dumbass statement.

 

See, unlike you, I have followed baseball before 2004.

 

So I do know what it's like to have guys like Jeter, Rivera, Williams, Pettite, Posada to come up through the system as well as more recent guys like Cano and Hughes.

 

Try again?

 

I've followed baseball since 1994.....go crawl back under your hole sox fans are talking.

 

Was your team not a dynasty when they developed and kept all those players???? yes they traded and signed FA's to fill the gaps over the years but it was AFTER they already had developed and kept that core of guys.

Edited July 15, 2016 by A Red Sox fan named Hugh

[Slasher9]

He is pitching better than Porcello right now and I believe that Wright is going to start experiencing diminishing returns. He is our 2nd best starter right now.

 

got it. so you meant the Red Sox #2.

[Nick]

Well Hugh, you just go tell Mookie, Brandley and Xander that we're not all in this year. We'll try again in 2020 when Espinoza is our ace. Good luck with that....

 

What if DD went to every GM and asked for their star pitcher? And they all wanted two of Mookie, Bradley and Xander along with Moncada or Benintendi? I think that would make us go backwards at this point, no? DD is a straight shooter if nothing else. How does anyone here know that he didn't exhauste all angles and THIS WAS THE BEST GET.

 

What did he get? A pitcher thought well enough few years ago that he was a top 5 draft pick. A pitcher who has come out of funk with a third pitch to supplement his plus curve ball and high spin rate fastball. A pitcher with high strike out rate and high ground ball induced rate. A pitcher who has had three decent years, albeit innings pitch are low due partially to having been a reliever. A pitcher that maybe approaching his prime years with 2 plus years of team control left.

 

Give me a plausible trade that gives us a quality pitcher without giving up something? I would have been okay with a Hill trade but we would have been in the same spot come November due to Hill being a free agent.

 

We live in a fantasy world of getting something of value for nothing. Oh wait, that's the new American way.

Edited July 15, 2016 by Nick

[mvp 78]

got it. so you meant the Red Sox #2.

 

Yes. Is he an actual "MLB #2 rotation guy?" That's up for debate, but getting into that conversation is often very derivative and silly.

 

In terms of performance and reliability, I see the rotation going forward as:

Price

Pomeranz

Porcello

Wright

Dumpster Fire

[Hugh2]

Seriously Hugh, you bring great insight and I respect your POV and opinions, but the "I know more about prospects than all of you combined" schtick is really f***ing annoying. Stick to making your points without trying to diminish everyone else's knowledge about prospects. Except for the Yankees fan. He's fair game, and you can s*** on him as much as you want.

 

I don't think I know more about prospects than other people. Some people just say some things that make it sound like they are clueless, and that does not pertain to everyone in here I've been arguing with and I apologize if some people think that.

 

But if people think a prospect isnt' good because of his slash line at 18 in A ball, or if they think a guy like Espinoza is comparable to Henry Owens then I would at the very least say they are putting up lazy arguments.

 

But I'll back of the Sox on Sox crime for now.

[Dojji]

That's a pretty danged good rotation, especially if one of the eleven hundred options for #5 starter does eventually get his act together.

[Hugh2]

Well Hugh, you just go tell Mookie, Brandley and Xander that we're not all in this year. We'll try again in 2020 when Espinoza is our ace. Good luck with that....

 

What if DD went to every GM and asked for their star pitcher? And they all wanted two of Mookie, Bradley and Xander along with Moncada or Benintendi? DD is a straight shooter if nothing else. How does anyone here know that he didn't exhauste all angles and THIS WAS THE BEST GET.

 

What did he get? A pitcher thought well enough few years ago that he was a top 5 draft pick. A pitcher who has come out of funk with a third pitch to supplement his plus curve ball and high spin rate fastball. A pitcher with high strike out rate and high ground ball induced rate. A pitcher who has had three decent years, albeit innings pitch are low due partially to having been a reliever. A pitcher that maybe approaching his prime years with 2 plus years of team control left.

 

Give me a plausible trade that gives us a quality pitcher without giving up something?

 

We live in a fantasy world of getting something of value for nothing. Oh wait, that's the new American way.

 

Well luckily for me I don't have to go tell them that now do I?

[d-money]

Yes. Is he an actual "MLB #2 rotation guy?" That's up for debate, but getting into that conversation is often very derivative and silly.

 

In terms of performance and reliability, I see the rotation going forward as:

Price

Pomeranz

Porcello

Wright

Dumpster Fire

 

 

Do you like the bullpen right now? Are they gonna use clay out of the pen?

[mvp 78]

I don't think I know more about prospects than other people. Some people just say some things that make it sound like they are clueless, and that does not pertain to everyone in here I've been arguing with and I apologize if some people think that.

 

But if people think a prospect isnt' good because of his slash line at 18 in A ball, or if they think a guy like Espinoza is comparable to Henry Owens then I would at the very least say they are putting up lazy arguments.

 

But I'll back of the Sox on Sox crime for now.

 

There are definitely posters who don't care about prospects and only want to win now.

 

I think the best organizations trade overrated talent to supplement their MLB teams and know which prospects to hold onto.

 

I think Espinoza is a good talent. I think the Padres should trade whatever they can to for the chance to get a future ace. I think the Sox need to do whatever they can to keep the MLB roster stocked and the farm system ranked towards the top.

[Dojji]

Dumpster Fire

 

because my brain does weird things sometimes, I can't help but thing how much having a Ryan Dempster clone in the #5 slot in our roration would be a really good thing right now.

[mvp 78]

Do you like the bullpen right now? Are they gonna use clay out of the pen?

 

Too many injuries. Buccholz pitched better out of the pen. I think they need to grab an additional arm.

[User Name]

I don't think I know more about prospects than other people. Some people just say some things that make it sound like they are clueless, and that does not pertain to everyone in here I've been arguing with and I apologize if some people think that.

 

But if people think a prospect isnt' good because of his slash line at 18 in A ball, or if they think a guy like Espinoza is comparable to Henry Owens then I would at the very least say they are putting up lazy arguments.

 

But I'll back of the Sox on Sox crime for now.

 

Focus your rage on the Yankees fan. He's everything that's wrong with the world today.

[Dojji]

There are definitely posters who don't care about prospects and only want to win now.

 

I think the best organizations trade overrated talent to supplement their MLB teams and know which prospects to hold onto.

 

I think Espinoza is a good talent. I think the Padres should trade whatever they can to for the chance to get a future ace. I think the Sox need to do whatever they can to keep the MLB roster stocked and the farm system ranked towards the top.

 

If Pomeranz lives up to the billing, this trade is a win-win. We get what we need right now, to compete over a 3 year playoff window, which is about as far as you can predict playoff contention. And the Padres, who need to do a full rebuild, get a potential centerpiece of that rebuild. Both teams gave up a lot, and both teams picked up a piece that suited their needs. I think this trade was well thought out on both sides from that perspective.

[greenwell]

If Pomeranz lives up to the billing, this trade is a win-win. We get what we need right now, to compete over a 3 year playoff window, which is about as far as you can predict playoff contention. And the Padres, who need to do a full rebuild, get a potential centerpiece of that rebuild. Both teams gave up a lot, and both teams picked up a piece that suited their needs. I think this trade was well thought out on both sides from that perspective.

 

100% agree