Christian Vazquez

[Fisk]

If both Callahan and Buttrey are protected, I'd be surprised, but I wouldn't be upset if they were chosen over Cozart, Maddux or Bautista.

 

Assuming you are right about all these guys needing protection, I think the Sox might look to "clear up" space by making a 3 for 1 trade at the deadline--maybe with someone who has been on the 25 man roster already this year or prospects in need of protection but maybe looking like they are borderline being able to be protected.

 

Maybe a trade like Scott, Callahan and Lin for Frazier.

 

That Frazier trade could be possible, but think they would ask for more.

[moonslav59]

Workman and Barnes are not being converted back. Workman still hasn't fully recovered. Sheperd has always been a reliever. Beeks is the one that can step up to be starter depth.

 

Soxprospects.com has this on Shepherd:

 

Solid pitcher’s frame with minimal remaining projection. Good athlete.Began that season as a starter, but he suffered a forearm laceration on his pitching arm which caused him to miss three weeks and forced him back to the bullpen. Had Tommy John surgery after sophomore year of high school.

[moonslav59]

That Frazier trade could be possible, but think they would ask for more.

 

Like maybe Scott, Taylor and Lin? Or, Longhi, Marrero and Scott? (They will be losing Abreu this year.)

[Fisk]

Soxprospects.com has this on Shepherd:

 

Solid pitcher’s frame with minimal remaining projection. Good athlete.Began that season as a starter, but he suffered a forearm laceration on his pitching arm which caused him to miss three weeks and forced him back to the bullpen. Had Tommy John surgery after sophomore year of high school.

Out of 104 appearances 2 were starts in the minors and I'm guessing neither was longer then 3 innings.

That scouting report is from when he was drafted.

[Fisk]

Like maybe Scott, Taylor and Lin? Or, Longhi, Marrero and Scott? (They will be losing Abreu this year.)

 

I don't think the white sox would really have much use for Marrero and Scott in rebuild mode.

[moonslav59]

Out of 104 appearances 2 were starts in the minors and I'm guessing neither was longer then 3 innings.

That scouting report is from when he was drafted.

 

If we need to go beyond 7 starters next year, we'll be just like we are this year: with someone like Kendricks, Velazquez or Owens as extended depth.

 

It is concerning, but not out of the ordinary for the vast majority of ML teams- even contenders.

[moonslav59]

I don't think the white sox would really have much use for Marrero and Scott in rebuild mode.

 

They still have many years of team control, but you're probably right. They'd want players with more upside potential: maybe two from Taylor, Longhi, Lin and Callahan.

 

If we give up two for a rental, when the rental bolts, it leaves us with two more slots open to protect others. That's my point. The players are interchangeable.

[Fisk]

If we need to go beyond 7 starters next year, we'll be just like we are this year: with someone like Kendricks, Velazquez or Owens as extended depth.

 

It is concerning, but not out of the ordinary for the vast majority of ML teams- even contenders.

Yes but not ideal.

I actually have not given up on Velazquez, stuff isn't great but knows how to pitch. Has been great at Pawtucket, and would eventually give him another chance.

[Fisk]

They still have many years of team control, but you're probably right. They'd want players with more upside potential: maybe two from Taylor, Longhi, Lin and Callahan.

 

If we give up two for a rental, when the rental bolts, it leaves us with two more slots open to protect others. That's my point. The players are interchangeable.

 

Yes that was what I was getting at not enough potential with those two, any deals they make they are looking for upside.

[moonslav59]

Yes that was what I was getting at not enough potential with those two, any deals they make they are looking for upside.

 

It's hard to make these 3 for 1 deals right before the Rule 5 draft, as most teams are struggling to protect their best Rule 5 players and their 40 man roster players, so making this type of deal at the trade deadline makes more sense for two reasons:

 

1) We get a (rental) player or two that helps us win more this year.

2) We clear space on our 40 man roster for November's protection period, assuming Sox management sees a roster crunch forthcoming. (I'm not sure they do.)

[Fisk]

It's hard to make these 3 for 1 deals right before the Rule 5 draft, as most teams are struggling to protect their best Rule 5 players and their 40 man roster players, so making this type of deal at the trade deadline makes more sense for two reasons:

 

1) We get a (rental) player or two that helps us win more this year.

2) We clear space on our 40 man roster for November's protection period, assuming Sox management sees a roster crunch forthcoming. (I'm not sure they do.)

 

I think they clear the space in trades for international bonus money.

[moonslav59]

I think they clear the space in trades for international bonus money.

 

Great point. I could see that sort of trade happening as well. Either with someone like Scott (assuming Smith and/or Thornburg return soon and look good at the deadline) going to a team in need of pen depth or by trading a Rule 5 protection candidate for int'l bonus money.

[Behindenemylines]

Catching is least of the Sox concerns. Vazquez and Leon splitting the time seems to be working. They are both hitting enough and the D is pretty consistent.

[Bellhorn04]

Vazquez has been great lately.

[Nick]

Catching is least of the Sox concerns. Vazquez and Leon splitting the time seems to be working. They are both hitting enough and the D is pretty consistent.

 

Bingo.....100% correct.

 

Their hitting became an issue only because we've been inadequate at so many positions. DH, 1B, SS, 3B, LF, RF (too high of expectation?). Catching is least of our concern.

 

This goes back to construction of team. Three years ago, we decided that we didn't need a true ace and went with Miley (32), Porcello (28), Kelly (25), Rodriquez (21), Buchholtz (18) and Owens (18). Clearly not a winning formula.

 

We overestimated our offense for 2017. We projected betters years from several players who in fact had their best years. Our expectation was tad high.

 

We need defense up the middle, C, SS, 2B and CF. Corner position must hit for high average or hit for power. You can't be a .260 singles hitter.

 

As much as I appreciate Moreland relative to his contract, he's settled into the player he's always been.

 

We are still in first place with Price and perhaps Carson Smith returning. We've added bullpen depth.

 

It's incredible to me that our two new 'acquisitions' hit 3rd and 5th in our batting order last night. They've given us much needed lift.

 

My guess for next year is that we'll have to live with Hanley and his $20M contract. Upgrading 1st base is a must. Hopefully that was the plan after we reset our penalty rate in 2017.

Edited August 4, 2017 by Nick

[Kimmi]

Bingo.....100% correct.

 

Their hitting became an issue only because we've been inadequate at so many positions. DH, 1B, SS, 3B, LF, RF (too high of expectation?). Catching is least of our concern.

 

This goes back to construction of team. Three years ago, we decided that we didn't need a true ace and went with Miley (32), Porcello (28), Kelly (25), Rodriquez (21), Buchholtz (18) and Owens (18). Clearly not a winning formula.

 

We overestimated our offense for 2017. We projected betters years from several players who in fact had their best years. Our expectation was tad high.

 

We need defense up the middle, C, SS, 2B and CF. Corner position must hit for high average or hit for power. You can't be a .260 singles hitter.

 

As much as I appreciate Moreland relative to his contract, he's settled into the player he's always been.

 

We are still in first place with Price and perhaps Carson Smith returning. We've added bullpen depth.

 

It's incredible to me that our two new 'acquisitions' hit 3rd and 5th in our batting order last night. They've given us much needed lift.

 

My guess for next year is that we'll have to live with Hanley and his $20M contract. Upgrading 1st base is a must. Hopefully that was the plan after we reset our penalty rate in 2017.

 

I agree completely regarding the catching situation. For me, catching has always been about defense. I would bring Varitek back if I could.

 

I don't think the FO over estimated the offense, except perhaps at 3B. But even in that case, our offense from 3B was so bad last year that it was not unreasonable to think that Pablo could provide some improvement.

 

The offense was likely not going to be as good as it was with Papi, but it also should not have been nearly as bad as it's been for a good part of the year.

[oldtimer]

Bingo.....100% correct.

 

Their hitting became an issue only because we've been inadequate at so many positions. DH, 1B, SS, 3B, LF, RF (too high of expectation?). Catching is least of our concern.

 

This goes back to construction of team. Three years ago, we decided that we didn't need a true ace and went with Miley (32), Porcello (28), Kelly (25), Rodriquez (21), Buchholtz (18) and Owens (18). Clearly not a winning formula.

 

We overestimated our offense for 2017. We projected betters years from several players who in fact had their best years. Our expectation was tad high.

 

We need defense up the middle, C, SS, 2B and CF. Corner position must hit for high average or hit for power. You can't be a .260 singles hitter.

 

As much as I appreciate Moreland relative to his contract, he's settled into the player he's always been.

 

We are still in first place with Price and perhaps Carson Smith returning. We've added bullpen depth.

 

It's incredible to me that our two new 'acquisitions' hit 3rd and 5th in our batting order last night. They've given us much needed lift.

 

My guess for next year is that we'll have to live with Hanley and his $20M contract. Upgrading 1st base is a must. Hopefully that was the plan after we reset our penalty rate in 2017.

 

No one has mentioned Ryon Healy of the Oakland A's, who is second on the depth chart behind Alonso, is a 1st baseman/DH prospect and a big guy with good home run power and reasonable OPS. He might be available for a reasonable price and is a 25 year old.

[Bellhorn04]

I know this doesn't mean much, but I love Vazquez's 'game face'. He looks like a guy who is very intense and who also loves playing the game.

[Kimmi]

I know this doesn't mean much, but I love Vazquez's 'game face'. He looks like a guy who is very intense and who also loves playing the game.

 

I've always had a soft spot in my heart for Vazquez. I love the intensity. OTOH, it's also been said that he is too intense or 'busy' behind the plate.

[jad]

I agree completely regarding the catching situation. For me, catching has always been about defense. I would bring Varitek back if I could.

 

I don't think the FO over estimated the offense, except perhaps at 3B. But even in that case, our offense from 3B was so bad last year that it was not unreasonable to think that Pablo could provide some improvement.

 

The offense was likely not going to be as good as it was with Papi, but it also should not have been nearly as bad as it's been for a good part of the year.

 

Oh God no! I don't want any guys who prove their 'toughness' by cheapshotting a hitter rightly objecting to a brush-back pitch, by going after him bravely armored in full catching gear.

[a700hitter]

Oh God no! I don't want any guys who prove their 'toughness' by cheapshotting a hitter rightly objecting to a brush-back pitch, by going after him bravely armored in full catching gear.

Maybe he was concerned that ARod would hit him with his purse.

[Kimmi]

Oh God no! I don't want any guys who prove their 'toughness' by cheapshotting a hitter rightly objecting to a brush-back pitch, by going after him bravely armored in full catching gear.

 

It's all about perspective. I'll take a catcher standing up for his pitcher on my team any day of the weak.

 

As far as having full catching gear on, it's a heat of the moment situation. What is Varitek supposed to do? Hold on a moment while I remove my gear? I'm not in his head, but I am willing to bet that the decision of whether to go after ARod or not did not come down to Varitek being 'protected' by his gear.

[cp176]

I am so happy to see Vazquez swinging an acceptable and sometimes better than that bat. It just adds to a position that I think we are reasonably well off in.

[bowman]

ARod is a pussy..

[moonslav59]

Our catchers have been extremely streaky at the plate this year and in recent years.

 

Many (including myself) felt there was no way Leon could repeat 2016, but there was also little chance Vaz couldn't outhit the 2016 Vaz, Hanigan and Holaday.

 

2017 catcher OPS: .700

 

2016 catcher OPS: .665

 

[southpaw777]

AS a full time catcher Vaz will show his offense, leadership and all around game. He should be our main starter.

[Hugh2]

Our catchers have been extremely streaky at the plate this year and in recent years.

 

Many (including myself) felt there was no way Leon could repeat 2016, but there was also little chance Vaz couldn't outhit the 2016 Vaz, Hanigan and Holaday.

 

2017 catcher OPS: .700

 

2016 catcher OPS: .665

 

 

I was trying to pump the breaks big time with Leon last year. Some people just can't seem to see more than the present. I got no problem riding hot hands, and Leon is fine as a backup.

[notin]

No one has mentioned Ryon Healy of the Oakland A's, who is second on the depth chart behind Alonso, is a 1st baseman/DH prospect and a big guy with good home run power and reasonable OPS. He might be available for a reasonable price and is a 25 year old.

 

Why would he be available? And why would he be reasonable? Healy has about 4 years of control left and makes MLB minimum wage. Oakland is in no rush to move him.

 

Now Yonder Alonso, who is a free agent in 3 months, is a different story...

[notin]

I was trying to pump the breaks big time with Leon last year. Some people just can't seem to see more than the present. I got no problem riding hot hands, and Leon is fine as a backup.

 

OMG his BABIP screamed "unsustainable" so loud it could be heard at both poles simultaneously. Yet whenever I mentioned this, someone would dispute this and say something "he re-tooled his swing" or something.

 

I don't care if he learned how to channel the ghost of Ty Cobb. No way was he going to get hits on 45% of the balls he puts in play. The record is .423 held by some guy named Babe something or other. (Leon did drop a little and finish the year with a .392.)

 

(Chris Taylor of the Dodgers with his .419 BABIP this year ranks number 4 all time, behind Ruth, George Sisler and Hornsby. Not sustainable. Oddly enough, while listening to a Dodger broadcast, the radio announcer said he "re-tooled his swing." Exact words. I am starting to think "re-tooled hi swing" is sportspeak for "lucky as hell" for people in denial.)

[Kimmi]

OMG his BABIP screamed "unsustainable" so loud it could be heard at both poles simultaneously. Yet whenever I mentioned this, someone would dispute this and say something "he re-tooled his swing" or something.

 

I don't care if he learned how to channel the ghost of Ty Cobb. No way was he going to get hits on 45% of the balls he puts in play. The record is .423 held by some guy named Babe something or other. (Leon did drop a little and finish the year with a .392.)

 

(Chris Taylor of the Dodgers with his .419 BABIP this year ranks number 4 all time, behind Ruth, George Sisler and Hornsby. Not sustainable. Oddly enough, while listening to a Dodger broadcast, the radio announcer said he "re-tooled his swing." Exact words. I am starting to think "re-tooled hi swing" is sportspeak for "lucky as hell" for people in denial.)

 

To be fair (to me), I think I gave a 're-tooled his swing' argument, but I also made it very clear that he would not be able to maintain his 2016 production. I knew that Leon would not repeat 2016, but I thought with the 're-tooled' swing, he would be much better than 2015, which he is.

 

On a related note, I hesitate to even bring up Devers' and Nunez' BABIPs.