Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[Bellhorn04]

As best I can see, the way things are developing, the Red Sox have held the line against signing anybody who requires draft compensation, or who wants more than 3 years. That means they are getting the leftovers--not the best players. It's a pretty dumb attitude when you consider the small amount of quality FAs available. It keeps them from signing a Hamilton or a Swisher or a Sanchez.

 

It might not be that dumb in the bigger picture if you look at where they're positioned and where their prospects are. They added prospects with the Dodgers trade, now in the offseason they've held onto all the prospects and the draft picks as well.

 

I think as Sox fans we're just not used to a strategy that involves having patience for a couple of years.

[SoxSport]

It might not be that dumb in the bigger picture if you look at where they're positioned and where their prospects are. They added prospects with the Dodgers trade, now in the offseason they've held onto all the prospects and the draft picks as well.

 

I think as Sox fans we're just not used to a strategy that involves having patience for a couple of years.

 

3 years is a long timeline for the prospects they now have in AAA. They have a habit of tying up their roster with not the best FAs--which it looks like they've done this year. In the process, blocking prospects with higher upside who might have a chance to stick this year. The result is a mediocre, non-contending team. They can't win with the current team unless their pitching improves dramatically. I don't think Dempster can do that. Maybe DeLaRosa can--if given the chance.Doubt he or Wright or the other Dodger pitcher will be given a chance this year.

[Bellhorn04]

Needless to say Lester and Buchholz have to pitch well or the rest doesn't matter much. Dempster is an innings-eater type anyway.

[Bellhorn04]

Dempster won't be blocking the pitching prospects. If one of the pitching prospects is doing well he'll get his shot. A spot will open on the DL or the phantom DL.

[seabeachfred]

Needless to say Lester and Buchholz have to pitch well or the rest doesn't matter much. Dempster is an innings-eater type anyway.

 

Bingo Bellhorn----that's three of us that have said that today, you, BSN07 and me, and I would imagine the whole board is in agreement with that. The problem is neither one of them stepped up late in the 2011 season and didn't do it for a season this time around---AND THEY MUST STEP UP with no excuses or hang-dog attitudes. BSN put it best....if Lester and Buchholz pitch up to their capabilities we could actually have a good rotation, especially if Lackey comes back and pitches as he did for the Angels before his elbow trouble rendered him a liabiity. We all have to hope those things come to pass because I don't see us adding another pitcher after signing Dempster today. Let's also hope he pitches like Dempster and not Dumpster.

[dupree]

Ok ive been dwelling on this hamilton to angels since the announcement was made.

i think it was a bad move not snagging him... but it is what it is

That being said i think swisher has to be in the picture

Youk a yankee and swisher a red sox now that would be a definite rivalry game this year

talk about television...

 

I agree with all of you that if Farrell gets the pitching staff back to form of old then the top of the rotation with lester and buch is alright as far as 3 4 and 5 i think the dempster lackey and doubront with maybe some of the young home grow arms given a shot at breaking camp. Lester and Buch were home grown maybe another arm can come up and suprise all of us.

 

Also everyone is saying to trade Ellsbury and myself included thought he should be trade bait. But after thinking about it after hamilton came off the board i thought what if ells stays healthy and gets his SB and finds his power numbers back then everyone thinking he is gone would be like we need him back... ok now with 25million per was not spent on josh then we will have the flexibility to resign ellsbury if he breaks out this year

[Lucienbel]

Ok ive been dwelling on this hamilton to angels since the announcement was made.

i think it was a bad move not snagging him... but it is what it is

That being said i think swisher has to be in the picture

Youk a yankee and swisher a red sox now that would be a definite rivalry game this year

talk about television...

 

I agree with all of you that if Farrell gets the pitching staff back to form of old then the top of the rotation with lester and buch is alright as far as 3 4 and 5 i think the dempster lackey and doubront with maybe some of the young home grow arms given a shot at breaking camp. Lester and Buch were home grown maybe another arm can come up and suprise all of us.

 

Also everyone is saying to trade Ellsbury and myself included thought he should be trade bait. But after thinking about it after hamilton came off the board i thought what if ells stays healthy and gets his SB and finds his power numbers back then everyone thinking he is gone would be like we need him back... ok now with 25million per was not spent on josh then we will have the flexibility to resign ellsbury if he breaks out this year

 

I'd love to see Swisher still be in the picture. With that said, not too upset we didn't end up signing Hamilton....I don't think that that's a deal this team wanted to compete with anyway. Some good points here though, and it'll be interesting to see what the pitching staff does. Lester coming back well and Buch doing what he did the last half of the season last year would definitely be worth some wins. If Ellsbury does have a good year, they don't have to sign him necessarily....he could end up becoming worth a decent amount toward the deadline.

[dupree]

I'd love to see Swisher still be in the picture. With that said, not too upset we didn't end up signing Hamilton....I don't think that that's a deal this team wanted to compete with anyway. Some good points here though, and it'll be interesting to see what the pitching staff does. Lester coming back well and Buch doing what he did the last half of the season last year would definitely be worth some wins. If Ellsbury does have a good year, they don't have to sign him necessarily....he could end up becoming worth a decent amount toward the deadline.

 

If ells comes out swinging and becomes the east coast version of matt kemp i have no problem with the red sox signing him long term. Give him 20 per if he goes deep for 35

 

Id like to see swisher in a boston uniform... but ii really dont know with swisher where you would hit him in this line up. With the salary that he would want it would be folish to hit him in the bottom of the order but i just dont know if you could slot him in the third spotso i would like the versatility with the different lineups he could bring and the matchups with pitchers on a day in and day out basis.

[Orange Juiced]

From MLB Trade Rumors:

 

"The Marlins could reverse their stance on trading Giancarlo Stanton, opines MLB.com's Joe Frisaro, if the Rangers are desperate to add another big bat and were willing to offer Jurickson Profar or Mike Olt in a deal. Frisaro also thinks Miami could be a trade match with the Angels as Peter Bourjos "has been on the Marlins' radar for a while."

 

http://www.mlbtrader...euXhvIBrUhvk.99

 

So, Stanton. Young, cost-controlled for many years, obviously an absolute monster, would be a huge draw and would provide 45 hr power for years and years. Total stud. If the Marlins would want Profar and Olt from the Rangers, what would be the equivalent from the Sox? I'd say maybe Bogaerts, Barnes, and maybe Jacobs....something like that. I don't like the idea of trading Bogaerts away, but holy smokes, adding Stanton would be something else.

[dupree]

From MLB Trade Rumors:

 

"The Marlins could reverse their stance on trading Giancarlo Stanton, opines MLB.com's Joe Frisaro, if the Rangers are desperate to add another big bat and were willing to offer Jurickson Profar or Mike Olt in a deal. Frisaro also thinks Miami could be a trade match with the Angels as Peter Bourjos "has been on the Marlins' radar for a while."

 

http://www.mlbtrader...euXhvIBrUhvk.99

 

So, Stanton. Young, cost-controlled for many years, obviously an absolute monster, would be a huge draw and would provide 45 hr power for years and years. Total stud. If the Marlins would want Profar and Olt from the Rangers, what would be the equivalent from the Sox? I'd say maybe Bogaerts, Barnes, and maybe Jacobs....something like that. I don't like the idea of trading Bogaerts away, but holy smokes, adding Stanton would be something else.

 

If Stanton was on the block that would be the move that would need to be made but i dont think stanton will move until mid seqson if they have a bad 1st half and shows his displeasure with the team and management then he will be trade bait at the deadline and the red sox should go after him harder than anyone else. Before the seasson starts would be awesome if it could happen and he would be the big bat that the red sox need it would be a huge move to say the least

[SoxSport]

As I said in another thread, Swisher will go elsewhere same as Hamilton because the Red Sox won't give anyone more than 3 years. They have boxed themselves in with their own stupidity.And they actually had the salary room to compete with the LA teams. But maybe Henry has selling the team and no long term commitments on his mind. I doubt winning is a priority, as long as the team remains respectable.

[SoxSport]

From MLB Trade Rumors:

 

"The Marlins could reverse their stance on trading Giancarlo Stanton, opines MLB.com's Joe Frisaro, if the Rangers are desperate to add another big bat and were willing to offer Jurickson Profar or Mike Olt in a deal. Frisaro also thinks Miami could be a trade match with the Angels as Peter Bourjos "has been on the Marlins' radar for a while."

 

http://www.mlbtrader...euXhvIBrUhvk.99

 

So, Stanton. Young, cost-controlled for many years, obviously an absolute monster, would be a huge draw and would provide 45 hr power for years and years. Total stud. If the Marlins would want Profar and Olt from the Rangers, what would be the equivalent from the Sox? I'd say maybe Bogaerts, Barnes, and maybe Jacobs....something like that. I don't like the idea of trading Bogaerts away, but holy smokes, adding Stanton would be something else.

 

Nobody mentions the Red Sox in all these trade and FA discussions. They are out of the media loop. Not considered serious players.

[jacksonianmarch]

If the sox were to match a Profar and Olt package right now, they'd have to go Bogaerts, Barnes and Bradley. After 2013, they might not have to, depending on how far Bogaerts goes

[a700hitter]

I don't think our moves so far are enough to get us out of the basement. Our pitching which has been our biggest problem for 2 off seasons will not be fixed by Ryan Dempster lighting up the gun at 86 mph. Unless there are additional moves, the only chance of us climbing out of last will be if Lester turns it around and lowers his ERA by 2 runs and/or Lackey reverts to his Angels days. The rotation is still 4 question marks and Buchholz. Unless all of those questions are answered in a positive manner, we are screwed again, because our starting pitching is only 5 deep or should I say shallow. Our other chance of rising out of the cellar would be if the O's thud back to earth. We need to make more moves to make this team worth watching.

[mvp 78]

Yeah, this isn't a playoff team unless some young arms and bats make a meteoric rise.

[jacksonianmarch]

I don't think our moves so far are enough to get us out of the basement. Our pitching which has been our biggest problem for 2 off seasons will not be fixed by Ryan Dempster lighting up the gun at 86 mph. Unless there are additional moves, the only chance of us climbing out of last will be if Lester turns it around and lowers his ERA by 2 runs and/or Lackey reverts to his Angels days. The rotation is still 4 question marks and Buchholz. Unless all of those questions are answered in a positive manner, we are screwed again, because our starting pitching is only 5 deep or should I say shallow. Our other chance of rising out of the cellar would be if the O's thud back to earth. We need to make more moves to make this team worth watching.

 

Buchholz isnt really a given either a700. If everything breaks right in the rotation, the sox should be good enough to contend for the final wild card, maybe even more. But everything breaking right rarely, if ever happens

[User Name]

Buchholz isnt really a given either a700. If everything breaks right in the rotation, the sox should be good enough to contend for the final wild card, maybe even more. But everything breaking right rarely, if ever happens

 

Unless you're the Rays or A's.

[jacksonianmarch]

The A's built to their park with pitching, defense and suddenly developed some offense. The Rays didnt have anything break right, they just eventually hit on the multitude of high draft picks they received for sucking cock for a decade. The O's are my example of everything breaking right, and that didnt even really happen since they lost Hammel for half the season

[User Name]

The A's built to their park with pitching, defense and suddenly developed some offense. The Rays didnt have anything break right, they just eventually hit on the multitude of high draft picks they received for sucking cock for a decade. The O's are my example of everything breaking right, and that didnt even really happen since they lost Hammel for half the season

 

I'd say that hitting on every offensive acquisition and every replacement for pitching injuries and trade pieces offering production is "everything breaking right". The Rays' 2008, with career years from a bunch of no-names is "everything breaking right". Agree on the O's.

[a700hitter]

Buchholz isnt really a given either a700. If everything breaks right in the rotation, the sox should be good enough to contend for the final wild card, maybe even more. But everything breaking right rarely, if ever happens

I agree, but Buchholz is the most solid guy we have.

[Station 13]

Looking at 2012 again, it cannot be said enough how bad the bullpen were with the 'late' inning option. Aceves blew 8 saves (by early August), and also had 10 losses to his credit. Melancon another stupid closer experience premise got demoted and end the season with an ERA over 6. Padilla blew a couple of big games too. And puff dough boy Andrew Bailey also blew a few and swell his ERAs to 7.04

 

If this were Bard/Papelbon as we knew, the team would be 10+ win better in 2012.

 

Red Sox had two relievers that were good: Tazawa+ Acthison, both were #2 and #3 in the AL in ERA after Rodney.

[Bellhorn04]

Red Sox had two relievers that were good: Tazawa+ Acthison, both were #2 and #3 in the AL in ERA after Rodney.

 

And in a very ironic development, Atchison was non-tendered.

[Station 13]

And in a very ironic development, Atchison was non-tendered.

 

It might be because he's 38 and had an elbow tear.

 

If he had TJS, his career might be over as he will be 40 when he could pitch again.

[BSN07]

Looks like the Cubbies came up short and Sanchez is going back to Detroit 5/80M pfffft

[Bellhorn04]

Sanchez really played the Cubbies nicely from the looks of it, using them to add an extra 5 million to the deal.

[Lucienbel]

Looks like the Cubbies came up short and Sanchez is going back to Detroit 5/80M pfffft

 

5/80 is way off what a lot of people thought that he'd be getting. Making 3 mil more than what we're giving Dempster annually.

[Laser Show]

Looks like the Cubbies came up short and Sanchez is going back to Detroit 5/80M pfffft

 

I don't think Sanchez is a $16MM pitcher, and it wasn't worth getting into a bidding war with the Tigers to pry him away.

[a700hitter]

I don't think Sanchez is a $16MM pitcher, and it wasn't worth getting into a bidding war with the Tigers to pry him away.

I agree. A guy who has had arm troubles is not worth that kind of contract. They should go for Edwin Jackson.

[SoxFanForsyth]

Yeah, this isn't a playoff team unless some young arms and bats make a meteoric rise.

 

I am content letting this thing play out while the prospects mature a bit, then go into 2014 guns blazing with Bradley, Barnes, Webster, De La Rosa, and Bogaerts.

 

Dempster didn't help this rotation at all IMO. Having said that, I do have confidence that Lester and Buchholz can return to their 2011 form (3.3-3.5 ERA pitchers), especially now that Farrell is back and will be able to filter his ideas through Nieves and get them back on track.

 

If the offense can stay healthy, which they should be able to given the nature of the injuries last year were traumatic and not chronic, then this is still one of the top offenses in the game.

 

The bullpen looks pretty solid, but largely depends on some bounce back guys. If Bard and Aceves get their act together, then we are in a good spot, with Uehara, Tazawa, Miller, Breslow, and Bailey all set.

 

In terms of talent, this team is as good as any team in the AL East. It's just a question of playing to their true talent levels.

[BSN07]

5/80 is way off what a lot of people thought that he'd be getting. Making 3 mil more than what we're giving Dempster annually.

 

Really? Most people had him pegged at 4-5 years around 15M per. Possibly 6 if he got a couple teams into a bidding war with the Dodgers had the missed out on Grienke.