Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[Spitball]

As i said in the other thread, he would be the type of high-upside SP prospect they should be looking at if he weren't: A) Extremely wild. B ) A whiny little bitch. They should be done with prima donna pitchers after Beckett.

 

Whether he is another Beckett or not, there are enough stories out there to show he is already a pain in the ass. There are indicators that the Red Sox want to improve their clubhouse chemistry. This guy might not be an ideal candidate for that.

 

 

MLB trade rumors: Trevor Bauer reportedly a candidate for Dbacks to move

By Craig Powers on Dec 4, 10:01a +

 

Young Diamondbacks pitcher Trevor Bauer may be on the block at the Winter Meetings.

 

 

The Arizona Diamondbacks may be looking to trade 21-year-old right-hander Trevor Bauer, according to ESPN Insider. Bauer has been with the organization since 2011, when he was drafted with the third pick out of UCLA. He has since spent most of his time in the minors with a brief stint in the majors in 2012.

 

ESPN notes that the Diamondbacks may be growing tired of Bauer's personality and high walk totals:

 

There are some uniformed personnel in Arizona who don't believe that Bauer will ever have the command and control in the zone to live up to his potential, while others are frustrated by his stubborn nature. If the D-backs have an opportunity to trade him for a long-term solution at shortstop or third base, they're sure to listen.

 

Teams that may be interested in Bauer include the Guardians, Rangers and Nationals. Those clubs recognize that Bauer does have the pitches to become a top-level starter, as his strikeout numbers at all levels have been impressive. In 14 starts with Triple-A Reno, he averaged 10.7 strikeouts per nine innings, then fanned 9.4 per nine innings in four appearances with the Diamondbacks.

 

Unfortunately, he also walked 7.2 batters per nine innings with Arizona. He has hovered around four walks for every nine innings in the minors, and it appears the Diamondbacks are done with trying to fix his control issues.

[DocHolliday]

OK that I get Doc. Did not see that you were going back to that era of Beckett but i probably should have.

 

No worries Jung. My overall point is that sometimes you have to take chances on those types of players, particularly when you are a last place team with pieces to trade that other teams want, who aren't going to be part of your LT future.

 

The current Red Sox fit the bill of a team that should have been involved in this type of deal (market size aside, the Guardians fit the bill as well).

 

If we had more trust in the FO, I'd be willing to bet that more of us would say "oh, Bauer just wasn't their guy. We trust their judgment." Problem is they've given us multiple reasons to lose our trust in them recently. To this point in this offseason, they've done nothing to gain most of our trust in them back.

[SoxSport]

Buying high on Dempster, who is no better than what they have, is a waste of money. The Red Sox organization is dull and flaccid.

[jung]

Both your post Doc and SoxSport's post make a good deal of sense to me. I wasn't against Bauer so much as I just could not see the comparison to 2009-2010 Beckett when in fact Doc was talking about a much earlier period in Beckett's career.

[SoxFanForsyth]

If the Sox sign Dempster, I'll lose my s***.

 

I would lose my s*** if they gave him a 1 year deal. I'm hearing reports a week ago he turned down a 2 year deal. Now they're bearing down on a deal, which, to me means its going to be around a 3 year deal.

 

What in the flying hell is Cherrington thinking here?!???

 

He's going to get his freaking tits lit on fire in the AL East. We're talking a 6+ ERA.

 

This is absolutely disgusting. Any interest at all in this guy shows complete incompetence from the FO, not overall, but in this deal.

 

This guy has less than zero value to the Sox. Ugh. Makes me sick. I would rather have De La Rosa or Morales start 100 times out of 100 opportunities over Dempster, and its not close.

[jung]

Well one thing you can pretty sure of I think...Bill James must think Dempster is wonderful. Either that or the FO is misinterpreting the information they are getting from James. All by way of saying that either the FO knows James likes him or thinks he does.

 

As much as ignoring James was highly publicized I don't wonder if the Sox are now overemphasizing James projections for players.

[Palodios]

This guy has less than zero value to the Sox. Ugh. Makes me sick. I would rather have De La Rosa or Morales start 100 times out of 100 opportunities over Dempster, and its not close.

 

I'm trying to rationalize this. Trying very hard. So here are my rose-covered glasses view point:

 

The perception is that Dempster just can't get outs against elite teams, so let's look at Dempsters worst four starts of the year. Those starts pretty much killed his season. But without those four starts, he had an ERA of 2.25 and never gave up more than 4 runs. That's pretty sweet, right?

 

[table]

Oct 3-- Oakland. 1st inning -- single, single, double, one run scores. 4th inning-- A walk, a double, and two bloop singles, by Moss, Reddick, Donaldson, Smith and Dempster is out of the game. Both inherited runners score.

 

Sept 18 -- LAA-- 1st inning-- a pair of bloop hits and a steal led to a run. 4th inning-- single, walk, single, walk. The score is 3-3 when they pull Dempster. Two of the three inherited runs score.

 

Aug 13 -- NYY-- 1st inning was perfect, 2nd inning was perfect. 3rd inning was ugly. 4th single, out, double play. 5th was perfect. 6th-- one homer, three outs. Not a good game, but there were stretches where he did dominate the Yankee lineup. It just didn't include the 3rd inning where he gave up 5.

 

Aug 2 -- LAA-- Another ugly game. Pujols, Trumbo and Trout took advantage of him, badly.

[/table]

 

He had some bad games, but who knows, maybe he won't be a complete failure in Boston?

[jung]

three years....three years of Dempster....A one year overpay might have been palatable...a two year overpay had me gaggin' but at least he is some sort of a pitcher...three years!!!!...Holy Mother of God!

[SoxFanForsyth]

I'm trying to rationalize this. Trying very hard. So here are my rose-covered glasses view point:

 

The perception is that Dempster just can't get outs against elite teams, so let's look at Dempsters worst four starts of the year. Those starts pretty much killed his season. But without those four starts, he had an ERA of 2.25 and never gave up more than 4 runs. That's pretty sweet, right?

 

[table]

Oct 3-- Oakland. 1st inning -- single, single, double, one run scores. 4th inning-- A walk, a double, and two bloop singles, by Moss, Reddick, Donaldson, Smith and Dempster is out of the game. Both inherited runners score.

 

Sept 18 -- LAA-- 1st inning-- a pair of bloop hits and a steal led to a run. 4th inning-- single, walk, single, walk. The score is 3-3 when they pull Dempster. Two of the three inherited runs score.

 

Aug 13 -- NYY-- 1st inning was perfect, 2nd inning was perfect. 3rd inning was ugly. 4th single, out, double play. 5th was perfect. 6th-- one homer, three outs. Not a good game, but there were stretches where he did dominate the Yankee lineup. It just didn't include the 3rd inning where he gave up 5.

 

Aug 2 -- LAA-- Another ugly game. Pujols, Trumbo and Trout took advantage of him, badly.

[/table]

 

He had some bad games, but who knows, maybe he won't be a complete failure in Boston?

 

Take out Lester's 4/17 game (2 IP, 7 ER), 5/25 game (4 IP, 7 ER), 7/17 game (4 IP, 6 ER), and of course 6/22 game (4 IP, 11 ER) and you've taken out 14 IP, 31 ER.

 

That leaves him with 191.1 IP, 79 ER. And that gives him a 3.72 ERA on the season.

 

I see what you're saying, but his era jumped to a 5.09 in the move to the AL. I just hate the move.

[Palodios]

three years....three years of Dempster....A one year overpay might have been palatable...a two year overpay had me gaggin' but at least he is some sort of a pitcher...three years!!!!...Holy Mother of God!

 

Where did you hear that from? If they offer him three years, the deal is a bust before it is even signed. You don't give 3 year deals to 36 year old pitchers, no one is that stupid.... I hope.

[Palodios]

Take out Lester's 4/17 game (2 IP, 7 ER), 5/25 game (4 IP, 7 ER), 7/17 game (4 IP, 6 ER), and of course 6/22 game (4 IP, 11 ER) and you've taken out 14 IP, 31 ER.

 

That leaves him with 191.1 IP, 79 ER. And that gives him a 3.72 ERA on the season.

 

I see what you're saying, but his era jumped to a 5.09 in the move to the AL. I just hate the move.

 

In all fairness, there is a big difference between a 3.72 ERA and a 2.22 ERA. And even if Dempster is a guy who can only beat up on bad teams, there have been plenty of times lately when the Red Sox needed to go on a run against a Cleveland or a Kansas City and they simply couldn't put 3 wins together.

 

I don't like Dempster. He's mediocre in the NL, and he's 36 years old. But I'm trying to see what is there-- if anything.

[jung]

Well that rumor is posted in this thread and makes sense. They were already going to overpay him on a two year deal and he balked at that. Where do they go from there? Since they are still talkin' to him it makes sense that they are going to be left wrestling with 3 years...yikes!

[Palodios]

Well that rumor is posted in this thread and makes sense. They were already going to overpay him on a two year deal and he balked at that. Where do they go from there? Since they are still talkin' to him it makes sense that they are going to be left wrestling with 3 years...yikes!

 

Overpaying him more or offering an option for the third year that he actually thinks is possible... but probably isn't.

[seabeachfred]

Where did you hear that from? If they offer him three years, the deal is a bust before it is even signed. You don't give 3 year deals to 36 year old pitchers, no one is that stupid.... I hope.

 

Well Palodios, for all your smarts and ability on the baseball front I'm still surprised that you still refuse to see that Cherington is a total incompetent. What makes matters worse is that Lucchino thinks he is a baseball demigod and he is pathetic too. When you add owner Prune Face Henry and his babbling sidekick Werner to the mix you just might have the most incompetent front office in baseball.

 

I mentioned this to 700 Hitter a few hours ago. I can think of owners who were bad, GM's who were pathetic and even CEO's that left a lot to be desired but I cannot recall any front office that was so loaded with a pack of inept asshats as the Red Sox have. It is beyond pathetic; it is tragic and the fans are going to be the ones made to suffer.

[jung]

Well they already offered him 12.5 per for 2. Ya' gotta' think he is likely looking for something like at least $2m more per year on a two year deal. That's 14.5 per for two years and a $29M total. 14.5 for 1 year would have been more like it. Honestly I don't see how they can justify him for 2 years without gagging. I suppose I could see them attempting to get him to bite at vesting deal for the 3rd year.

[BSN07]

Where did you hear that from? If they offer him three years, the deal is a bust before it is even signed. You don't give 3 year deals to 36 year old pitchers, no one is that stupid.... I hope.

 

He already turned down a 2 year offer from the Sox because he thought he could get 3. He's not signing a one year deal to build value ether. That would be idiotic of him in the AL East. So it looks at minimum to be 2 with an option/ This is the dumbest f***ing move they could make. I would literally rather they go get Wakefield or Pedro out of retirement... I'd rather see a 300 pound Schilling take the mound...

[jung]

Dempster's age combined with the AL East is what makes this deal hard to envision. He isn't going to take one year in the AL East as correctly pointed out....and 12.5 per for two is already to much money. He likely wants a nice cushy two or even better three year deal with some team where he won't have such a tough time...yet the Sox just don't seem to want to get it through their thick skulls. I just don't know what to think anymore. The Keystone Kops strike again.

 

In all likelihood Dempster will get 3 years from some team at a lower per annum for the right team....a nice cushy job is what he is lookin' for I imagine.....slumber his way into retirement.

[Palodios]

Well Palodios, for all your smarts and ability on the baseball front I'm still surprised that you still refuse to see that Cherington is a total incompetent. .

 

He's been the GM for only a year. I have liked most of his moves so far, except for the Bailey trade. Also-- he wanted nothing to do with Valentine if you recall.

[DocHolliday]

What baffles me the most about the interest in Dempster is the Sox public statements about being hesitant to commit to players after age 35. The only way this makes sense is if they sign another FA starter whose younger with more potential or they make a trade for a high ceiling pitching prospect who's awfully close to ML ready.

 

They are absolutely fooling themselves if they think the 4 guys they have in spots now will combine for 800 IP. I would not be surprised if ANY group of 4 starters from the last 5 years failed to combine to pitch 800 innings. Only in 1 season, 2004, did all 5 starters make all of their starts. On top of that, they have 1 guy returning from TJ surgery, another starter who barely topped 150 IP (and dropped off considerably after 100 IP), and another guy who has never pitched 200 innings in a season and is only a season removed from serious back issues.

 

"Deep depth" is what LL coined would be necessary for the roster for next season. To this point, I feel foolish for believing that he was speaking on behalf of the FO and stating they had finally figured out a part what it would take to get this team back on track. From what I've seen so far, this is beginning to look more like "deep s***".

[jung]

I have to admit they have me completely stumped.

 

If they do land on 3 years for Dempster that will mean that they made an all out effort to sign him. If somebody told me a year ago that they would sign Dempster I would probably say well....that makes sense. Dempster has been another one of those guys that had gotten under their skins and was going to end up a Red Sox player one day. But if you told me they would make an all out effort to sign him, I would have said you are out of your mind.

[DocHolliday]

I have to admit they have me completely stumped.

 

If they do land on 3 years for Dempster that will mean that they made an all out effort to sign him. If somebody told me a year ago that they would sign Dempster I would probably say well....that makes sense. Dempster has been another one of those guys that had gotten under their skins and was going to end up a Red Sox player one day. But if you told me they would make an all out effort to sign him, I would have said you are out of your mind.

 

Furthering my attempt to understand the interest in Dempster, they seem to have changed their view on trying to find players who are suited to fit into the pressure cooker of the Boston market. Nothing about Dempster's personality or the places he's played gives me the sense he's more or less fit for the market than any other available player.

 

Maybe the other guys on the FA are less suited to play in Boston? In either case, I'd say there's not enough to sway Dempster as the better fit, even if he was far and away better suited from a character standpoint.

[RedSoxfanforlife305]

Every deal another team makes is not a fail on Cherington's part.

 

For the love of god, people.

 

This.

[RedSoxNC84]

Red Sox deep in negotiations with Dempster. I think this'd be a good move

 

Of course

[BSN07]

I've given up trying to figure out what the teams direction is. The offense is better but still a work in progress. But the Pitching has fallen almost into the twilight zone They say they expect bounce backs in the rotation and don't want to spend on the long term FA guys. Which is fine, I would not have an issues with them going with what they have and seeing if some of the young guys can step in. But then these damn Dempster multi year rumors come out that make no sense. Too many mixed signals and my brain hurts.

 

I'm just gonna sit back and see how the rest of the winter plays out and not get too anxious with players they do and don't get. Outside of Dempster. I don't know what they are smoking thinking he will work in Boston. I'm hoping he's using Boston just to get a better deal somewhere else.

[jung]

I don't think there is any chance of Dempster coming here 07 unless they made him an offer he could not refuse and how stupid would that be????

 

Yet if I am not mistaken the other guys competing for his services are not the usual suspects that the Sox might want to cause difficulties. So I have to believe they are actually still pursuing him AFTER he turned down 2/$25. Yikes!

[BSN07]

I don't think there is any chance of Dempster coming here 07 unless they made him an offer he could not refuse and how stupid would that be????

 

Yet if I am not mistaken the other guys competing for his services are not the usual suspects that the Sox might want to cause difficulties. So I have to believe they are actually still pursuing him AFTER he turned down 2/$25. Yikes!

 

I'll cheer for him when he takes the mound and probably bitch about him the other 4 days

[jacksonianmarch]

Of course

 

He had some personal issues this yr and was off to a Cy Young type start in Chicago. He goes to Texas, had to leave the team for a period of time and came back a shell of himself. His K rate actually rose in Texas, but his walk rate, BA and HR rate skyrocketed. Prior to 2012, he has thrown 200IP 4 yrs in a row and he was well on his way when he moved to Texas. The guys isnt a bum. He's older, which is always a concern. But he will give you innings, and will likely be more of a hybrid between the two extremes next yr. In Boston, I bet he throws 190-200IP and has an ERA near 4, which is exactly what you need

[jung]

Morning radio talking heads musing that Hamilton's agent is doing him a disservice...not creating enough buzz around his client which is creating something of a gap between what Josh wants and what teams are offering.

 

don't think it is quite the year that some think it is for the everyday ballplayer. If Prince came out this year I don't think he gets the number of years he got from Detroit. I am not even sure Albert gets the number of years he got.

 

I still think the early comment by the Rangers regarding the max years they would offer really put a damper on Hamilton dealings that he and his agent are having a very hard time overcoming which is in part why I think there is an opportunity here that you normally don't see.

 

I said at the time that I was surprised that the Ranger's comment did not draw immediate fire from the players association.

[redsoxrules]

The Red Sox are close to a deal with Ryan Dempster, Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports reports (on Twitter). Rosenthal reported yesterday that the Red Sox were in serious talks with Dempster. LSW Baseball represents the free agent right-hander.

 

Dempster, 35, posted a 3.38 ERA with 8.0 K/9, 2.7 BB/9 and a 43.5% ground ball rate in 173 innings for the Cubs and Rangers in 2012. The 15-year veteran saw his average fastball velocity dip below 90 mph, but he continued generating swings and misses. His 10.4% swinging strike rate was right around his career mark of 10.8%. He's not linked to draft pick compensation, which means the Red Sox won't have to surrender a pick to complete a deal

[User Name]

He had some personal issues this yr and was off to a Cy Young type start in Chicago. He goes to Texas, had to leave the team for a period of time and came back a shell of himself. His K rate actually rose in Texas, but his walk rate, BA and HR rate skyrocketed. Prior to 2012, he has thrown 200IP 4 yrs in a row and he was well on his way when he moved to Texas. The guys isnt a bum. He's older, which is always a concern. But he will give you innings, and will likely be more of a hybrid between the two extremes next yr. In Boston, I bet he throws 190-200IP and has an ERA near 4, which is exactly what you need

 

....but he's 35, and coming from a very ineffective stint in the AL. Even if he's effective next year, there's the possibility of him falling off a cliff afterwards with his diminishing velocity. Let's see the parameters of the deal first.