Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[User Name]

However, the Rangers have tried to trade for Ellsbury before, and they have a lot of pitching in their system....

[DocHolliday]

However, the Rangers have tried to trade for Ellsbury before, and they have a lot of pitching in their system....

 

Not sure if they would trade Martin Perez, who is by far their best pitching prospect anywhere near major league ready. Holland is signed to a team friendly deal through 2016, with an option for 2017. They're pretty high on Harrison and are trying to extend him through his Arb years.

 

All 3 of these guys are LH, which would make 3 LH in the rotation if one of them joined Lester and Doubront - that's a risky proposition at Fenway Park. Not sure which of these guys I'd like to acquire the most, but right now I'm leaning towards Perez.

[jung]

I think Doubront becomes trade bait somewhere along the way but yes, 3 LH starters in Fenway does not make much sense.

[seabeachfred]

Define "on the way down". He had an awesome 2011 with a mid-800's OPS. If he had a bad hand last year, then how were his numbers on the way down if he had such a big season just before the one with the injury?

 

He hit 255 this past season, his OPS was way down from 2011, he had trouble hitting from the left side and we are not talking about his great 2011 season. We are talking about this past season-----and he was lousy this year. I saw it with my own eyes. I live in LA, remember? He stunk with the Dodgers. Grounders to the second baseman and short flies to left field by the gross. That's what I mean by down. He stunk this season, pure and simple. Hand? Maybe. Maybe not. He never complained or had it checked out so the whole thing can be one big canard. IMHO it was a bad signing.

[DocHolliday]

I think Doubront becomes trade bait somewhere along the way but yes, 3 LH starters in Fenway does not make much sense.

 

Possibly, but with Farrell on board, I think they will be hesitant to trade Doubront. Farrell was on the record in his last year as pitching coach praising Doubront and his potential. In much the same way as he was with Lester during the trade talks for Johan Santana, he may play a big role in the FO decisions regarding players leaving in any deal.

[User Name]

He hit 255 this past season, his OPS was way down from 2011, he had trouble hitting from the left side and we are not talking about his great 2011 season. We are talking about this past season-----and he was lousy this year. I saw it with my own eyes. I live in LA, remember? He stunk with the Dodgers. Grounders to the second baseman and short flies to left field by the gross. That's what I mean by down. He stunk this season, pure and simple. Hand? Maybe. Maybe not. He never complained or had it checked out so the whole thing can be one big canard. IMHO it was a bad signing.

 

You're not answering my question. "On the way down" signifies a slow, steady decline.

 

You need to be consistent here: He either had a hand injury which hampered his production last year (thus the down year) which may or may not be fully healed. Otherwise, He simply had a s***** year. Or he's in a steady decline (which he isn't) and this can be proven.

 

Where you live or how much you watched him last year is inconsequential to the discussion.

[jung]

I don't see Felix as a guy that will ever work his way past a rotation 3 for any AL team with real aspirations for going someplace. The only guys that seem to make it to FA these days with a chance to sign them are rotation 3's or worse. So, I am not convinced that they should keep Felix if he can be packaged up to really do something. However I just don't know where these guys are going any longer. Couple decent deals for bats but bats has always been where the Sox FO seems to focus to much attention anyway.

 

As I have said before if it were my FO I would turn it into the best pitching talent evaluation and acquisition team in baseball and if my ability to rate bats suffered for it...so be it. The Sox seem lost when it comes to pitching and that IMO is going to become more and more of an issue in the coming years.

[example1]

Hey, while other teams are off signing players at least the Sox are making sure that every last 'i' and every 't' is crossed on the Napoli deal that was announced 7 days ago. Wait... what's that? There might be a hold up? Well, I'm sure it is for a good reason. Probably missed an 'i' or something.

 

Christ. Get something done Red Sox.

[DocHolliday]

As I have said before if it were my FO I would turn it into the best pitching talent evaluation and acquisition team in baseball and if my ability to rate bats suffered for it...so be it. The Sox seem lost when it comes to pitching and that IMO is going to become more and more of an issue in the coming years.

 

I agree with this 100%. Historically, the Red Sox have had no problem putting players on the field who help the offense. Fenway certainly plays a role there. It's also clear that the years they have been successful have been the years when they've gotten the better pitching performances from their staff.

 

This is why it baffles me that they aren't being mentioned more in trade talks and FA negotiations for pitching improvement. My hope is that they have multiple plans for addressing the pitching and are purposely appearing quiet in the public eye to help increase their leverage.

[jung]

No wonder so many of us were scared shitless by that Dempster move. To see the Sox basically do nothing about the pitching and then drag out that tired old Dempster yen that they have been nursing for God only knows how many years is scary as s***. That thing has been there gathering dust for something like two if not three years now. The best they can do is drag that tired old bag of bones out of the dead deal closet? These guys are really starting to scare me now. I'm serious...these guys may be in more trouble than even those of us that have not been very impressed have been thinking.

[wyo-sox]

 

This is why it baffles me that they aren't being mentioned more in trade talks and FA negotiations for pitching improvement. My hope is that they have multiple plans for addressing the pitching and are purposely appearing quiet in the public eye to help increase their leverage.

 

This has been my hope this off season. I typically am patient and trust the big boys making the big bucks know what they are doing. But every day that goes by and every deal that happens not involving Sox this feeling in my gut grows that we are not going to address the pitching. I read the Reds were looking for a leadoff man, and I really hoped our front office would get some pitching from them in a deal involving Ells..... then I see the three team deal involving the Reds yesterday....... I hope they get a couple pitchers soon.

[BSN07]

Cleveland turned one year of Shoo and some middling prospects into Trevor Bauer +? wtf? How in the name of all that is f***ing holy were the Sox not in on this? This is easily the biggest miss of the season. Theoretically the could have traded Lester for Myers and then replaced him with Bauer. I would have walked around with a raging boner until March...

 

And now the Napoli deal might fall through because of a physical? wow... I mean that's not the FO fault but fml this is getting aggravating.

[Palodios]

Cleveland turned one year of Shoo and some middling prospects into Trevor Bauer +? wtf? How in the name of all that is f***ing holy were the Sox not in on this? This is easily the biggest miss of the season. Theoretically the could have traded Lester for Myers and then replaced him with Bauer. I would have walked around with a raging boner until March...

 

And now the Napoli deal might fall through because of a physical? wow... I mean that's not the FO fault but fml this is getting aggravating.

 

The most painful part is the the Reds needed a center fielder, are a contender who was looking for a short term deal at that position.... and instead of making a deal work with them to get rid of Ellsbury, they decided to put a right fielder into the position.

[Dojji]

Every deal another team makes is not a fail on Cherington's part.

 

For the love of god, people.

[User Name]

Every deal another team makes is not a fail on Cherington's part.

 

For the love of god, people.

 

THANK YOU!

[BSN07]

I don't blame Ben. I'm voicing my frustration on the FO as a whole. Like I always do when discussing the moves. I'm not one of the one that singles cherries out

 

Listen I know Bauer is no sure thing. But he's the kind of high upside SP prospect they should be looking for if they are avoiding the pricey FA market. Cleveland gave up next to nothing for him. And yes I am aware of his issues. But he's young and still has time to get it together.

 

I'm not sure if I'm more upset about the non deal or the other deals it could have lead to. Trading Ells would have required them to get involved on Hamilton/Swisher/Ross. They would have likely had to deal Iggy in the trade so they would be in the Drew Market(him on a 2 year deal is not bad, Bogaerts should be ready by then). Bauer would have been added to the SP pool and Kalish/Stubbs and Salty would be available for another SP(if the Napoli deal goes through).

 

I supposed this snag in the Napoli deal might have kept them from getting into deep discussions...

 

edit: I'm possibly salty over not being able to add Bauer to the killer "B" group lol

[User Name]

As i said in the other thread, he would be the type of high-upside SP prospect they should be looking at if he weren't: A) Extremely wild. B ) A whiny little bitch. They should be done with prima donna pitchers after Beckett.

[BSN07]

As i said in the other thread, he would be the type of high-upside SP prospect they should be looking at if he weren't: A) Extremely wild. B ) A whiny little bitch. They should be done with prima donna pitchers after Beckett.

 

I guess I can see that. Hopefully they do something soon or announce they are just going with what they have some we have some idea of the direction they are heading in.

[a700hitter]

Every deal another team makes is not a fail on Cherington's part.

 

For the love of god, people.

You are right. His record speaks for itself.

[jung]

You can't hang all of this on BC. Do i think him a competent GM....honestly I don't. But I am not buying any of this BC, new found control over the FO bull either. The Sox and BC seem to have turned the position into something with very narrowly defined boundaries that are way inside the normal expectations for a GM....wayyyyy inside.

[jacksonianmarch]

Red Sox deep in negotiations with Dempster. I think this'd be a good move

[BSN07]

The Red Sox are in serious discussions with Ryan Dempster, reports Ken Rosenthal of FOX Sports (on Twitter). He cautions that there is no deal yet and the LSW Baseball client could still sign elsewhere.

 

Jesus Christ why? On a one year deal it's iffy, but I might keep my mouth shut. They already offered 2 years and he said no. In no fing way should they go 3. I am 100% against this move. This NL retread gotten eaten alive in Texas.

 

I seriously would rather they not sign anyone at all as opposed to signing Dumpster.... I'd rather the knuckleball kid get a chance and I thought the god damn days of "can anyone on the team catch a knuckleball" were finally behind us...

[BSN07]

Meanwhile teams that understand SP are doing this,

 

The Rays are nearing a deal with right-hander Roberto Hernandez, Marc Topkin of the Tampa Bay Times reports (on Twitter). The free agent pitcher would provide depth for Tampa Bay's bullpen or rotation. Jorge Brito and Charisse Espinosa-Dash represent the 32-year-old.

[a700hitter]

Cubs Claim Sandy Rosario

By Mike Axisa [December 12 at 2:04pm CST]

The Cubs have claimed right-hander Sandy Rosario off waivers from the Red Sox, reports MLB.com's Carrie Muskat (on Twitter).

This guy has bounced around like a rubber ball this off season. I think that more than half of the Red Sox transactions have involved Rosario.

[redsoxfan3]

Red Sox deep in negotiations with Dempster. I think this'd be a good move

 

I could live with signing Dempster, but I think we would still need to sign one of Jackson, Lohse, or Sanchez as well to put us in a decent situation with our rotation. We would then have one of those three, Dempster, Lester, Buchholz as our top fourr starters with Lackey, Doubront, and Morales battling for the 5th spot. Morales could go back to the pen and we would be able to teade Doubront somewhere if Lackey wins the 5th spot. Guys luke Wright and De La Rosa could be used as depth later in the season if need be and if they have good seasons in AAA.

[jung]

I think about 4/5 of the Sox rotation will likely battle for the 5 spot.:D

[DocHolliday]

As i said in the other thread, he would be the type of high-upside SP prospect they should be looking at if he weren't: A) Extremely wild. B ) A whiny little bitch. They should be done with prima donna pitchers after Beckett.

 

It's easy for all of us to remember the guy Beckett was when he left town. What we forget is that he was, at one point, very similar to where Bauer is now- where he didn't have any WS rings. Despite all of his attitude problems and location issues early in, he played a major part in winning the WS for the Marlins in '03 and basically put the Sox on his back in '07. Its not completely out of the realm of possibility that Beckett lost his competitive fire and drive in the final years in Boston (he even hinted to it in SP saying baseball was no longer his number 1 priority).

 

Hindsight makes it easy to see where the Sox made the mistake with Beckett in offering him the extension in 2010. But despite all of his attitude problems, he did a lot of good things here early on when the drive was still there. I'm sure the Guardians feel the command issues are part of maturing and the drive to win at all costs will be there despite the attitude issues.

 

Not saying Bauer is the only solution in solving the Red Sox pitching problems, but he was certainly one of the few available pieces with top of the rotation ability.

[jung]

Hindsight was not required to see that there were issues with the Beckett extension when it was signed. Don't think hindsight is an issue as there were plenty of folks on the forums that were very much against that extension.

 

Not sure there is a direct comparison to Bauer though. Not really commenting on Bauer himself but not sure there is a direct comparison between Bauer and the 2009 and 2010 Beckett.

[DocHolliday]

Hindsight was not required to see that there were issues with the Beckett extension when it was signed. Don't think hindsight is an issue as there were plenty of folks on the forums that were very much against that extension.

 

Not sure there is a direct comparison to Bauer though. Not really commenting on Bauer himself but not sure there is a direct comparison between Bauer and the 2009 and 2010 Beckett.

 

I'm comparing the current Bauer to the pre-03 Beckett. The guy who was a raw talent with no postseason success who was widely thought of as a great talent with a need to harness control and with a competitive, but arrogant and, at times, dogmatic outlook on work ethic and what needs to be done to compete at the highest level.

 

Despite all of those perceptions, Beckett, for a time, was able to step to the next level- largely because of his young age, his immense talent, and his drive to win. Once he won in Boston, I feel he lost a lot of that drive, and that loss coincided with his aging and dismissing talent. Coupled with some injury plagued seasons, we all witnessed the fall from the top at the end of 07. The FO saw the same thing, but decided to extend him in hopes that he would return to something similar to the '07 form or transform him into a pitcher capable of getting hitters with pinpoint control and execution, ala Curt Schilling.

 

Many of us were against the extension at the time, and it turned out to be worse than even the most negative views could have expected.

 

Luckily, he's the Dodgers problem now.

[jung]

OK that I get Doc. Did not see that you were going back to that era of Beckett but i probably should have.