Red Sox 2012/2013 Offseason Thread

[Bellhorn04]

Ah well, f*** it...at least they're spending the money. Some of it stupidly perhaps. At least these are all short-range deals. Go prospects!

[iortiz]

We need to push fast and furious for Swisher, and why not explore what is Bourn asking.

[SoxSport]

Fox Sports has changed MLB with those huge TV contracts to the LA teams--that blow the Yankees and their Yes network out of the water. The result is both LA teams are stockpiling the biggest FAs and driving the FA price up to unreachable heights for most other teams. What will Selig do? My guess is he will double the surtax. At any rate, the game is in trouble because the playing field has never been so warped.

 

The Red Sox had a golden opportunity to upgrade their team with the Dodgers' generosity last year.

I mean really upgrade their team with prime FAs like Hamilton. But they blew it all on middling players who will have minimal impact on a team that is weak in pitching. Wait until Henry finds them still in last place next year, and wonders why.

[Dojji]

The fact that Hamilton is what this market considered a prime FA is all the reason you need to understand exactly why Cherington is saving his ammunition.

 

He's a good hitter. Probably at the Matt Holliday level or a little below. I wanted him if the price was right. But this is not a player who is going to wind up going to the Hall and he's not a player who will turn a bad team into a good one all by himself. And a 5 year contract for a player with his health and character concerns is just stupid, no other word to describe it.

[SoxSport]

For five years, they can have him. Would have been happy to have him for 4 but not for 5.

 

You have to overbid--to get a player of this stature. You make an offer he can't refuse.

He never gave Texas a last chance, as he promised, from what I've heard. The result is he held up the whole FA process--for nothing.

 

The Red Sox had the money to outbid the Angels--but they passed. They are a pussy organization.

[SoxSport]

The fact that Hamilton is what this market considered a prime FA is all the reason you need to understand exactly why Cherington is saving his ammunition.

 

saving his ammunition for what? Ellsbury? Boras will want Hamilton money if Ells hits .270next year and steals 40 bases.

 

Hamilton is one of the top 5 hitters in baseball, and his personal life has never affected his play. He's worth 5/125.

[Dojji]

Saving our ammunition to see what this team really is. Right now we're in a state of flux, and we're sure about literally nothing about our roster. Even Ortiz is hardly a sure thing anymore -- he'll perform when he's on the field but...

 

No athlete is worth 25M/year. And while getting a top 5 player for 5 years or less would be a solid deal in a normal situation, Hamilton isn't really a normal situation.

 

I'm not interested in overpaying to that extent when our core is not solid enough to take that contract and put us over the top.

 

Signing Hamilton to make us immediate World Series contenders makes a great deal of sense. Signing him to hopefully make us an adequate team is a waste of money. People are used to seeing this team think of itself as a major World Series contender and trying to load up appropriately. The last 2 years should have convinced most of us that that's not the case anymore. We need to see the youth build up our core for several years before we should be in on the really expensive FA's again. Now is not the time.

[SoxSport]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2012/12/red-sox-to-sign-ryan-dempster.html

 

Dempster deal is done... 2 years, $26.5 million

 

This one makes you gag. This guy is a stiff.

[dupree]

Hamilton gone to the Angels and we sign Dempster... the FO needs to go all out for Swisher now... im not sure that this is the best move to pass on hamilton hamilton but maybe if 2013 is a bust and they finish in last again Cherry aand the rest of the FO will be gone

 

Im extemely disappointed.. i thought 5/125 would be him and its money the red sox should have spent

[seabeachfred]

I've given up trying to figure out what the teams direction is. The offense is better but still a work in progress. But the Pitching has fallen almost into the twilight zone They say they expect bounce backs in the rotation and don't want to spend on the long term FA guys. Which is fine, I would not have an issues with them going with what they have and seeing if some of the young guys can step in. But then these damn Dempster multi year rumors come out that make no sense. Too many mixed signals and my brain hurts.

 

I'm just gonna sit back and see how the rest of the winter plays out and not get too anxious with players they do and don't get. Outside of Dempster. I don't know what they are smoking thinking he will work in Boston. I'm hoping he's using Boston just to get a better deal somewhere else.

 

That didn't turn out to be the case BSN. We have him now and I just wonder what we have. I have some concerns how he will do in the AL, but compared to the crap we s igned last winter this might be a small step in the right direction.

 

Question for you and others.....if the Napoli deal collapses who plays first base for us in 2013? Well at least Loney signed so we won't have to worry about that bum playing for us. That would have been like getting hit by a 2 by four in the head.

[seabeachfred]

You have to overbid--to get a player of this stature. You make an offer he can't refuse.

He never gave Texas a last chance, as he promised, from what I've heard. The result is he held up the whole FA process--for nothing.

 

The Red Sox had the money to outbid the Angels--but they passed. They are a pussy organization.

 

It's quite possible we now have the absolute worst front office in the game. Henry is a wimp who spends so much of his time with his various and sundry enterprises that he only has time for that and chasing his wife around the bed. Lucchino fancies himself as a cutting edge type of baseball guru, but truth be known, he doesn't really know s*** from shinola about talent and he has already been run out of two other towns where he helped run the team into the ground. Tom Werner raped the Padres when he owned them, trading off all his good players and then fleeing the city. Cherington? Well he still has his stubborn supporters on the board, but the guy is two pounds of turd in a one pound package and a total inept GM, and yet we have apologists for these guys here and everywhere else.

 

Are some of us super critical? Certainly, but what has this organization done the past few years to inspire confidence in them? They have turned a once model franchise into a laughing stock.

[seabeachfred]

saving his ammunition for what? Ellsbury? Boras will want Hamilton money if Ells hits .270next year and steals 40 bases.

 

Hamilton is one of the top 5 hitters in baseball, and his personal life has never affected his play. He's worth 5/125.

 

Dojji means well Sox Sport but he can't help himself. He is wedded to the bone to carry on the company line even when their incompetence just jumps out at you.

 

Saving his ammunition???? How damn ridiculous is that?

[BSN07]

That didn't turn out to be the case BSN. We have him now and I just wonder what we have. I have some concerns how he will do in the AL, but compared to the crap we s igned last winter this might be a small step in the right direction.

 

Question for you and others.....if the Napoli deal collapses who plays first base for us in 2013? Well at least Loney signed so we won't have to worry about that bum playing for us. That would have been like getting hit by a 2 by four in the head.

 

Finding an adequate 1B shouldn't be too difficult. Swisher, Laroche and Pena are still available in free agency. Morse could be available if the Nats bring back Laroche.

 

Without mentioning Napoli by name, GM Ben Cherington provided an update on the deal, Scott Lauber of the Boston Herald reports. “We’re working through some things in regards to another player,” Cherington said.

 

I think the Napoli deal will ultimately get done.

[dupree]

I think the napoli deals gets done with some contractual language getting signed

after that he and dempster could hold a joint press conference to welcome them to boston. Im not a dempster in the AL fan at all. I think he gets hammered but as was mentioned before he is better than Aaron Cook.

 

Swisher is the next best option since hamilton is gone and his versatility could give the lineup so many different options as well. Maybe they will still go after Sanchez instead of Lohse but i keep seeing Lohse's name come up a lot on writes blog talking about Boston's rotation. I still cant see an outfield of Gomes Ellsbury Victorino

i still think moves are gonna start being made quickly since the two big fish are off the board. Does anyone know what Swisher is asking price is?

[BSN07]

I think the napoli deals gets done with some contractual language getting signed

after that he and dempster could hold a joint press conference to welcome them to boston. Im not a dempster in the AL fan at all. I think he gets hammered but as was mentioned before he is better than Aaron Cook.

 

Swisher is the next best option since hamilton is gone and his versatility could give the lineup so many different options as well. Maybe they will still go after Sanchez instead of Lohse but i keep seeing Lohse's name come up a lot on writes blog talking about Boston's rotation. I still cant see an outfield of Gomes Ellsbury Victorino

i still think moves are gonna start being made quickly since the two big fish are off the board. Does anyone know what Swisher is asking price is?

 

It's most likely 4-5 years at 13-15M per.

[Glennish]

If we sign Nick Swisher then I really dont understand what our management's game plan is here...He is going to cost more than the 13 million per that we are handing out like hot dogs at a county fare not to mention the draft pick we will have to give up to sign him.

 

With Dempster on board we now have 4 number 3 starters (Clay, Lester, Lackey, and Dumpster). Not exactly a winning formula in the AL East and maybe not even in the NL Central. Its like we are overpaying for all these Journeymen to get our payroll back up and justify having the highest ticket prices in the league.

 

It is the Sox and Yankees fault that teams have to give out 7-10 year contracts for 200 plus million to get the marquee FAs, and by publicly stating they basically won't go over 3 or 4 years on anyone regardless of the situation we wont be decent until either the market adjusts to the Sox and Yankees not overpaying or our minor league players make their way to "the show"..The deal Hamilton got was legit. If you get 3 or 4 years of him hitting .300/40/100/120 over 130 games a season then I think that justifies the 1 or 2 years that he might underperform. Same deal with Greinke...Unless we have something cooking to get a guy like Felix or a Kershaw I just dont see the Sox being good for quite some time. They must be banking completely on Farrell getting Lester turned around, because as it stands this team can't compete with the pitching staff they have.

[a700hitter]

And the Cubs sign Sanchez for 5/$75.

[a700hitter]

Cubs Agree To Sign Anibal Sanchez

By Mark Polishuk [December 13 at 4:50pm CST]

The Cubs have given their rebuilding process a major boost by agreeing to sign free agent right-hander Anibal Sanchez to a five-year contract, reports Bob Nightengale of USA Today.* The deal could be worth $75MM, reports FOX Sports' Ken Rosenthal, who said earlier today that the two sides were close to an agreement.* The contract will become official once Sanchez passes a physical.

 

The signing is a surprise given that the Cubs were thought to be at least a year away from pursuing big-ticket free agents, instead signing such low-cost/high-upside pitchers as Scott Baker and Scott Feldman and signing Japanese closer Kyuji Fujikawa this winter.* Yet, it was Theo Epstein, Jed Hoyer and company who outbid five other teams (including the Tigers) for Sanchez's services, according to Nightengale (Twitter link).* Sanchez, 28, is young enough to be a key rotation piece for the next contending Cubs team, and Chicago now has an ace atop what looks like a very solid rotation that also includes Matt Garza, Jeff Samardzija, Baker and Feldman.

[a700hitter]

5:08pm: The deal is not yet complete, as Sanchez's agent Gene Mato tells CBS Sports' Jon Heyman that he is still talking to other teams.* Sources tell Heyman that the Tigers are still "very much in [the] mix."* (both links to Twitter)*

 

 

Read more at http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/#5emfIO4Ru7C72ROP.99

Now, the Cubs sound like us.

[seabeachfred]

Finding an adequate 1B shouldn't be too difficult. Swisher, Laroche and Pena are still available in free agency. Morse could be available if the Nats bring back Laroche.

 

 

 

I think the Napoli deal will ultimately get done.

 

I wish we would move in on Swisher now before some other team "swoops" in a takes him. The guy switch hits, can play two OF positions as well as first base and hits around 25to 28 homers a year and hits in the 260's and 270's. We all know that Salty stinks as defensive catcher and we may have to use Napoli some there, especially when Lackey pitches and that leaves first base open. LaRoche would be good too but he has not been on the Red Sox's radar and I think that makes him a gone goose. Pena? No thanks; the guy can no longer reach the Mendoza line and I'll take your word on Morse BSN because I claim ignorance on him. I know nothing about the guy.

[reYoukilis]

Get Swisher, C. Ross, make the Ellsbury + catcher trade for quality arm and Ill be excited about the up coming season. Having said that we're getting a little too right side dominant for batting.

[seabeachfred]

If we sign Nick Swisher then I really dont understand what our management's game plan is here...He is going to cost more than the 13 million per that we are handing out like hot dogs at a county fare not to mention the draft pick we will have to give up to sign him.

 

With Dempster on board we now have 4 number 3 starters (Clay, Lester, Lackey, and Dumpster). Not exactly a winning formula in the AL East and maybe not even in the NL Central. Its like we are overpaying for all these Journeymen to get our payroll back up and justify having the highest ticket prices in the league.

 

It is the Sox and Yankees fault that teams have to give out 7-10 year contracts for 200 plus million to get the marquee FAs, and by publicly stating they basically won't go over 3 or 4 years on anyone regardless of the situation we wont be decent until either the market adjusts to the Sox and Yankees not overpaying or our minor league players make their way to "the show"..The deal Hamilton got was legit. If you get 3 or 4 years of him hitting .300/40/100/120 over 130 games a season then I think that justifies the 1 or 2 years that he might underperform. Same deal with Greinke...Unless we have something cooking to get a guy like Felix or a Kershaw I just dont see the Sox being good for quite some time. They must be banking completely on Farrell getting Lester turned around, because as it stands this team can't compete with the pitching staff they have.

 

Well Glen, Felix and Kershaw are not walking through that Red Sox door, but if Lester and Buchholz would pitch like the way they are supposed to we could put together an adequate staff that could surprise some people, including us. They just need to do it and for that matter Lackey has to come back to being at least a credible pitcher. The AL East is wide open next season and that is why Cherington must move his ass to get the reinforcements we need to compete. His glacial pace is irritating, though signing Dempster MIGHT be a move in the right direction. At least he's not Cook or Germano.

[BSN07]

Well Glen, Felix and Kershaw are not walking through that Red Sox door, but if Lester and Buchholz would pitch like the way they are supposed to we could put together an adequate staff that could surprise some people, including us. They just need to do it and for that matter Lackey has to come back to being at least a credible pitcher. The AL East is wide open next season and that is why Cherington must move his ass to get the reinforcements we need to compete. His glacial pace is irritating, though signing Dempster MIGHT be a move in the right direction. At least he's not Cook or Germano.

 

If Lester and Buccholz step up the Sox could have a very good rotation. It's just a big if at this point. It seems they are hoping having Farrell back is going to be the difference maker in this staff. Not anyone they add.

 

The Sox need Doubront to step forward too. Which I think he has the talent to do. The only thing that worries me is the Verducci rule concerning pitchers making certain increases in IP and the increase in injuries. Doubront will have a huge red flag because of hs IP increase last season when Verducci prints his list. And it's usually pretty spot on.

[The Celtbot]

I like Dempster and don't mind having him for 2 years. Yes he did bad in the AL last year, but that was a small sample size. He's a groundball pitcher and should do fine either way.

[jung]

I was surprised that the Sox did not get forced to some number higher than $26.5 having been at 2/25.

 

I do think it suggests that the Sox must have already been very close to/at the limit that teams had established for how much they were willing to spend for Dempster. That is only another .75m per year. You would think Dempster was holding out for three years or two years at about 4m more than the Sox offer of 2/25.

 

You would almost prefer that the Sox make an offer and then if they really want somebody be forced to come back at a much higher number to get him. The Sox have had this annoying habit of late of making the market for players and with such a small increase to secure Dempster it would appear that they did it again here.

 

There are of course some players you cannot get a second shot at. You get one shot to close them and if you don't you may find that some other team has demanded that the player and his agent not seek counteroffers from other teams. I certainly would not think Dempster would fall into that category though.

 

Anyway they were already at 2/25 and avoided both three years and a significantly higher number than their original offer.

[jacksonianmarch]

It's a smart move by the sox. It's a short term deal for a veteran innings eater. If he sucks, then he's gone after 2014. If he doesnt, then he's a rock in the rotation

[DocHolliday]

Signing Hamilton to make us immediate World Series contenders makes a great deal of sense. Signing him to hopefully make us an adequate team is a waste of money. People are used to seeing this team think of itself as a major World Series contender and trying to load up appropriately. The last 2 years should have convinced most of us that that's not the case anymore. We need to see the youth build up our core for several years before we should be in on the really expensive FA's again. Now is not the time.

 

Very good point - and I'd argue the last 3 years should have proven this to most fans, but especially last year.

 

I have a big sigh of relief today knowing we weren't the team that went the distance for Hamilton. Several times, I expressed my issues with him and feel he isn't the difference maker most want to portray him as. Even with Hamilton, there are a lot of holes on this team that won't be filled until the prospects emerge. With fewer and fewer impact players making it to FA at the beginning of their prime years, the emphasis will be developing talent and locking that talent up early on and eliminating arbitration and early FA eligibility years.

 

Keeping the financial flexibility will allow the organization to sign core players and key veterans when their current contracts expire (Pedroia). To me, this is a much better use of resources and a much better model for remaining competitive than relying on dwindling talent in FA.

[SoxSport]

As best I can see, the way things are developing, the Red Sox have held the line against signing anybody who requires draft compensation, or who wants more than 3 years. That means they are getting the leftovers--not the best players. It's a pretty dumb attitude when you consider the small amount of quality FAs available. It keeps them from signing a Hamilton or a Swisher or a Sanchez.

Sanchez I don't mind, because his value is way overrated from what he has shown the last couple years.Forget one month at the end of the season--too small a sample size to be paying this guy a fortune. But Swisher is the kind of live wire they need on this dead team.

[SoxSport]

It's a smart move by the sox. It's a short term deal for a veteran innings eater. If he sucks, then he's gone after 2014. If he doesnt, then he's a rock in the rotation

 

And in the meantime, he's blocking a spot in the rotation for one of several prospects they have with higher upside. Dempster looks like a 4.50 ERA guy to me in Boston--the kind of ERA which will keep them in the cellar for the average hitting team they have.

[DocHolliday]

And in the meantime, he's blocking a spot in the rotation for one of several prospects they have with higher upside. Dempster looks like a 4.50 ERA guy to me in Boston--the kind of ERA which will keep them in the cellar for the average hitting team they have.

 

If one of the pitching prospects emerges over the course of that contract, they will find a spot for him in the rotation. Given all of the health questions surrounding the rotation, I wouldn't be surprised if they utilized a 6 man rotation at different times next season.

 

Still time for them to entertain trades to improve other areas of the team that could involve them trading Doubront.