Chad Tracy Gets 3-Year Deal

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

One 30HR/.900 OPS bat does not even keep pace with the yankees who will add judge to a team that just made us look like we are AA.

And you need to count on injuries.  Yankees lost Judge an Stanton but they have power up and down the lineup.  So guys like Bellinger and Rice made them still scary.  Do you want to be like the team who just got creamed or the team that just did the creaming?

They also had some impressive starting pitchers and SP'er depth.

The return of Judge is notable, and maybe they get better health and production from Cole, Rodon, Fried and others, but I can't help but think their ages will catch up to them at some point. (I know- I know, I've been saying this for 2-3 seasons.)

Yankee current ages: (PA)

38 Goldschmidt 380

36 Stanton 96

34 Judge 285

31 McMahon

IP

36 Hill 59, Cruz 55

35 Cole 127

34 Yarbrough 63

33 Rodon 84

33 Fulmer 10

32 Fried 113

32 Blackburn 85

32 Schreiber 11

 

The contrasting Sox...

34 Contreras 535

33 Story 266

32 Yoshida 297

32 White 60

IP

38 Chapman 52

36 Gray 169 (FA)

35 Guerrero 41

31 Weissert 61, Kelly 16

Look at how much each of these players mean to their teams and how closer they are to 40 than 30. I see this:

Gray 36 (FA) Contreras 34 & Chapman 38

vs

Judge 34, Cole 35, Rodon 33, Fried 32 & Goldschmidt 38

 

 

[drewski6]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

They also had some impressive starting pitchers and SP'er depth.

The return of Judge is notable, and maybe they get better health and production from Cole, Rodon, Fried and others, but I can't help but think their ages will catch up to them at some point. (I know- I know, I've been saying this for 2-3 seasons.)

Yankee current ages: (PA)

38 Goldschmidt 380

36 Stanton 96

34 Judge 285

31 McMahon

IP

36 Hill 59, Cruz 55

35 Cole 127

34 Yarbrough 63

33 Rodon 84

33 Fulmer 10

32 Fried 113

32 Blackburn 85

32 Schreiber 11

 

The contrasting Sox...

34 Contreras 535

33 Story 266

32 Yoshida 297

32 White 60

IP

38 Chapman 52

36 Gray 169 (FA)

35 Guerrero 41

31 Weissert 61, Kelly 16

Look at how much each of these players mean to their teams and how closer they are to 40 than 30. I see this:

Gray 36 (FA) Contreras 34 & Chapman 38

vs

Judge 34, Cole 35, Rodon 33, Fried 32 & Goldschmidt 38

 

 

They just developed an elite rookie SS and Schlittler is a beast.  And Ben Rice broke out.  Judge is too good to just fall off a cliff like that.  Hes a first ballot hall of famer.

I think next year is more of the same unless we get serious about trying to get better and squeeze some people off our roster.  And I dont mean Duran and Stroy.

[drewski6]

Right now, it feels like we have a host of problems and are not bad, but too far behind the elite teams to think of ourselves as a real threat to win it all next year.  And I dont really see an obvious path forward.  

[moonslav59]

26 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

The Red Sox absolutely put too much in the collective basket of KC, Mayer, and Roman....ANd thats largely why its been a frustrating 5-8 years.  And I do think its annoying when fans defend this approach.
 

I disagree. They did have high hopes for Mayer, but they never handed him a FT job like they did the minor league player of the year and top prospect KC. At most, Mayer became a platoon player and played more due to injuries to Story and IKF. We also went out and trade one infielder (DHam) for 3, which does not support the idea that we had a lot of faith in Mayer.

They did trust in Anthony, but again, they had solid contingency plans (that also failed.) They did not trade Duran, as they should have had they had total faith in Anthony. They also had Yoshida and several other DH platoon options in place.

I'm not going to pretend I did not expect better from the 3 you selected, but we did get more than I expected from Tolle, Bennett and Early. Also, just because these three have not produced right out of the gate, doesn't mean they will end up as duds. It also has no bearing on the chances Arias, Godbout, Gonzales and Primera do well or not.

[moonslav59]

14 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

They just developed an elite rookie SS and Schlittler is a beast.  And Ben Rice broke out.  

They were suspects too, until they weren't.

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

I disagree. They did have high hopes for Mayer, but they never handed him a FT job like they did the minor league player of the year and top prospect KC. At most, Mayer became a platoon player and played more due to injuries to Story and IKF. We also went out and trade one infielder (DHam) for 3, which does not support the idea that we had a lot of faith in Mayer.

They did trust in Anthony, but again, they had solid contingency plans (that also failed.) They did not trade Duran, as they should have had they had total faith in Anthony. They also had Yoshida and several other DH platoon options in place.

I'm not going to pretend I did not expect better from the 3 you selected, but we did get more than I expected from Tolle, Bennett and Early. Also, just because these three have not produced right out of the gate, doesn't mean they will end up as duds. It also has no bearing on the chances Arias, Godbout, Gonzales and Primera do well or not.

They have been painful for 5-8 years, and part of that was because they thought when the big 3 of KC, Mayer, Anthony arrived - these guys would be great.  Bloom even said it in his years. Just you wait till my prospects show up.  Fans here were quick to point to Roman as the guy who will carry the offense.

As I said to Notin, real depth is having good players 1-8.  So if some struggle or get hurt, you have other guys to pick up the pieces.  Not positionally, but thump wise.  

Thinking we didnt need 2 of Devers, Bregman and Alonso was putting too much faith in Roman and Mayer.

Ben Rice is Judges backup, as feared thumper. And thats more important than who plays what position.

[drewski6]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

They were suspects too, until they weren't.

Im not saying dont break them in.  Im saying dont spend 4 years prepping for their big arrival (Bloom) and then when they arrive, assume you are good to not retain/go-after talent to put around them.

We argued all offseason if Roman should hit first or third.  Thats not how you break in a youngster.

[drewski6]

We also got rid of Romans mentor in Bregman.

[moonslav59]

38 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Are you still super jazzed that we replaced Bregman with 0 IP Ranger Suarez?  Bregman had like 65 extra base hits this year that we like really really really could have used.  

I'm glad we didn't pay the same or more than the Cubs for Bregman, so hell yes.

I prefer Suarez, Durbin, Monasterio and Seigler to Harrison, Drohan, DHam and Bregman and this is not counting what we can do with the Bregman vs Suarez money over the next few years. This, despite Bregman surprising me with his 5.4 WAR at his age. Even with this great first season with the Cubs, Suarez was 3.8 and Durbin 3.1. (Okay, I left out Harrison & Drohan, but Bennett and Gray did just fine over them.)

In a vacuum, yes, Bregman would have been a big help. I wanted Bregman or Alonso. It's the back-end that scares me more than the 30 year old Suarez.

[drewski6]

THe problem isnt Roman, its thinking that because you have Roman - you dont need 2 of Devers, Alonso, Bregman

[drewski6]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

I'm glad we didn't pay the same or more than the Cubs for Bregman, so hell yes.

I prefer Suarez, Durbin, Monasterio and Seigler to Harrison, Drohan, DHam and Bregman and this is not counting what we can do with the Bregman vs Suarez money over the next few years. This, despite Bregman surprising me with his 5.4 WAR at his age. Even with this great first season with the Cubs, Suarez was 3.8 and Durbin 3.1. (Okay, I left out Harrison & Drohan, but Bennett and Gray did just fine over them.)

In a vacuum, yes, Bregman would have been a big help. I wanted Bregman or Alonso. It's the back-end that scares me more than the 30 year old Suarez.

Worried about the budget 4 years from now when weve won one playoff series since 2018 ended.  Letting Bregman go was the worst mistake since we let Schwarber go.  Bregman had like 65 extra base hits.  He would have been huge.  And here we are, another frustrating season.

If you want to compete today, you have to be willing to sign contracts that will be scary on the back end.  Because the Yankees do and the Dodgers do.  With average hitting, cheap fill ins like Durbin, we just cant keep pace.  

SP isnt what it use to be because we are not going to stop pulling starters after 4 2/3 in the playoffs.  Plus, its just not realistic to think you can have shut down relievers in the fifth inning.  

Plus, the Red Sox were actually a good BB/K team with the bats.  We had plenty of walks, singles, OBP.  Our K rate wasnt that bad.  But what we missed was guys who can drive the ball. Extra base hits.

Keep wanting these king of decisions , keep being one and done or not even making the playoffs.

[drewski6]

The Red Sox need to build the team through the bats.  We need to be top 3 in hitting or we are just unserious.

[moonslav59]

45 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

I dont mind getting excited for RA, but he was always a worm killer.  And the issue is that people were more than fine letting Bregman go for Mayer, overrating RA's hitting.  Last offseason - people wanted to count on Casas for this last year.

We replace Bregman with Durbin not Mayer.

Yes, we expected more from RA than he gave. I'm pretty sure everyone expected more.

Yes, every year we count on someone who does not come through. Welcome to MLB and every team in the league. How did McMahon do for the Yanks? Chisholm?

Wasn't Volpe hyper and overhyped?

I got Narvaez wrong, but did Austin Wells meet expectations?

The Yanks got nice help from Warren & Weathers, as we did from Bennett and rookies Tolle & Early.

Don't be surprised if one of our three bigly hyped prospects do well in 2027 and or beyond. (I doubt Mayer does, but some players take a while to come into their own.)

I'd love to see Arias as our starting SS in 2027, but I'm not projecting even a .735 OPS. (I do think .725 would be higher than Story, and Arias plays better defense.)

I'd love to see AR hit .800, which would be 250 points higher than Narvaez, but ,750 is reasonable and 200 points better.

I think Mead can easily hit .850 next year, which is 30 points better than Bregman's 2026 and 30 points under the 32 year old Alonso. I won't project it, but .780-.810 should be what sites project from him.

Anthony should not be counted on in 2027, and of course nothing from Casas. I'm writing off Duran, Story and Yoshida, but I do think we have a decent core to build around, and anything from Roman and these three vets could be a nice boost.

Rafaela, Abreu, Contreras, Durbin, Mead and AR do not need upgrades. The other 3 slots could but it's not possible unless JH gets a new MO. Instead, we will choose one of the three links as the weakest and maybe try a major fix. My guess is we put out hopes in...

LF: Anthony, Duran, Yoshida, Jones. White & Campbell

SS: Arias, Story, Monasterio & Cheng

and get a DH. (LF, if we move Anthony to DH and trade Duran- fine with me.)

We use the rest of our budget and trade capital to keep or replace Gray and keep the pen strong and deep.

[moonslav59]

50 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

Besides being a 'worm killer,' RA is soft. 

Not convinced but worried/concerned.

[notin]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

...and he attacks certain players, managers, GMs, owners mercilessly.

 

 

 

Sort of what forums like this are for.  Ive done stuff like that, even going so far as to chastise players for off-field behaviors that are in many cases just rumors…

[moonslav59]

23 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Ben Rice is Judges backup, as feared thumper. And thats more important than who plays what position.

Not really. He will be 38 year old Goldschmidt's (.763) replacement.

I totally get the point about adding offense and worry about positions afterwards, but only for a major bat or two addition. The thing that bodes well about that strategy is how we have several flexible-position players:

Mead 2B/1B/DH

Anthony or Yoshida LF/DH

Sogard 3B/1B/DH

We can add a 2Bman (B Lowe?) and move Mead to DH.

We could add a SS and have Mead DH and Arias/Story at 2B.

We can add a LF'er (Suzuki/Arozena) and move Anthony to DH.

We can add a DH and have 2B/SS three deep and LF 2-3 deep.

We could even add a corner IF'er and move Durbin to 2B (I would not) or Contreras to DH.

The only positions we should not even consider is CF, RF and Catcher.

 

[moonslav59]

11 minutes ago, notin said:

Sort of what forums like this are for.  Ive done stuff like that, even going so far as to chastise players for off-field behaviors that are in many cases just rumors…

Not non-stop and not continuous focus on who your first impression thought sucked. You will readily admit someone surprised you.

[moonslav59]

40 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Im not saying dont break them in.  Im saying dont spend 4 years prepping for their big arrival (Bloom) and then when they arrive, assume you are good to not retain/go-after talent to put around them.

We argued all offseason if Roman should hit first or third.  Thats not how you break in a youngster.

Roman did have a pretty decent first 300 PAs in MLB in 2025. I think most teams would not baby a guy after what he had shown.

You praise the Yanks, but they did give Volpe 550 PAs in year one at age 22 (started 2023 season at age 21.). They had him leading off by mid April his rookie year, but his struggles forced them to move him back to 8-9.

Rookie year he started:

38 games 5th or 6th

31 games 1-3

34 games 9th

29 8th

20 7th

Year 2 (like Anthony's 2026)

76 1st

26 5th or 6th

33 7th

23 8th or 9th

This was after he hit .666 his rookie year. Anthony hit over .800.

[moonslav59]

37 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Worried about the budget 4 years from now when weve won one playoff series since 2018 ended.  

Did you say this about 4 years ago, when we signed Yoshida and Story?

[moonslav59]

54 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

If you want to compete today, you have to be willing to sign contracts that will be scary on the back end.   

We did more to "compete this year" than just about any Sox GM has done in my lifetime. Some moves did not pan out as expected, but the sheer amount of moves, significant and moderately significant was stunning.

We had a playoff team and saw more turnover than anyone would have expected. While the year end budget only increased by about $8M, the CB Tax budget went up $25M, and we actually got other teams to pay parts of salaries (Gray & Contreras), instead of vice-versa (Sale and several others.) Not even counting the Crochet extension, we added (LUX TAX)

$41M Gray (-$20M STL)

$26M Suarez

$21.3M Contreras (-$4M STL)

$6M IKF

Durbin, Bennett, Monasterio, Seigler, Oviedo, 

Then, we added Mead, Miller and AR.

Name a Sox season, where we added more than this.

It turned out to not be enough. Of course we could used Bregman or Alonso's bat. I wanted one of the other, too. Instead we chose to add Suarez and Durbin, then tried to patch holes with Mead, Miller and AR. Looking at just those in-season moves, one could argue that those midseason additions had higher possibilities than we thought Schwarber & Robles had in '21 and Eovaldi & Pearce had in '18.

The 2 PAs from Mead sucked. Had we gotten 2 PAs from Schwarber and many more from Mead, which might have been more likely, maybe we'd see things differently. 

I don't blame Brez for injuries and for not trying. If anything, he tried too hard, and now we have very little trade capital to upgrade for 2027. The Gray one and done add is an example of what trying to win now can do to a team.

 

 

[moonslav59]

Gone from 2025:

Buehler, Giolito, Early, Dobbins, Bernardino, Wilson, Fitts, Newcomb, Murphy, Hicks, May, Matz, Harrison, Drohan, Winckowski, Criswell, L Guerrero, I Campbell, Hendricks, Hoppe and many other prospect pitchers 

Bregman, (Devers mid season 2025) Narvaez, Toro, Refsnyder, N Lowe, Mayer plus JH Garcia and other prospects.

[notin]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Not non-stop and not continuous focus on who your first impression thought sucked. You will readily admit someone surprised you.

Also I readily admit when I’m wrong.  Or I can just get lazy and let mvp do it for me…

[Behindenemylines]

10 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Tolle had traffic all game long. The batters that were coming up had good AB's against him. Not sure he would have fared much better than Miller TBH. 

By pulling him in the fifth you now have to get outs in the fifth, sixth, and seventh to get to Whitlock and Chappy! Who in the bullpen is going to get those outs. If you had Slaton and Guerrero for the Sixth and seventh then maybe you can bring in Miller in the fifth. I would have rolled the dice with Tolle to get out of the fifth. Probably throws 90 plus pitches by that point and then bring in Miller in the sixth.

[moonslav59]

35 minutes ago, notin said:

Also I readily admit when I’m wrong.  Or I can just get lazy and let mvp do it for me…

Too many think admitting you are wrong is a sign of weakness, when actually the opposite is true.

[southpaw777]

6 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

They stuck with the plan because it gives the best chance to keep the game 1-0 or 2-0 before the game gets out of hand. Unfortunately, the bullpen stunk. 

That's the way baseball has been heading for a while now. I understand the frustration, but when the went to Miller a second time, it's clear that it was an organizational mandate prior to the playoffs even starting. 

Oh, I’m 100% sure this came from Breslow. I think it’s the dumbest way to play a playoff baseball game. I don’t think it gives you the best chance to win. Eric Miller looked bad down the stretch and they went to him twice. Dumb. The game wasn’t even close to out of hand. Gray was right. He’s the best starter the 3rd time through. It’s analytics BS. And Tolle is a gamer. I’d have let h8m at least finish that inning.

I guess that’s the way some teams play the game now, whatever. I’ll never agree that that’s the way you should play the game. And I don’t agree that it gives you the best chance to win the game. You shouldn’t rely on middle relievers over your top starters. Especially when some have not looked good in September. Crochet had zero business in that situation just coming off a season long injury with no real game time. Maybe if we had a lead early, but not then. Lots of stupid decisions which is concerning moving forward if Breslow is indeed calling the shots.
 

if this is they way they are going to use their starters in the playoffs going forward, then we’re gonna lose a lot of games IMO.

[southpaw777]

4 hours ago, JimEd said:

he'll probably end up like Casas and never play again. he got his money. why would he care?

I hope that’s not the case. I questioned both this and Campbells premature deals. In my opinion, you wait for a FULL MLB YEAR so the pitchers can adjust then you can see how the player adjusts back. Campbell had questions with his swing but had a good first month. When they adjusted to his holes in that swing he couldn’t adjust back. Now he’s a AAA player making 7m per. Anthony looked good before they adjusted to him when he got hurt. The next year he never really got going before getting hurt again. He never adjusted back but they gave him 16.25 per regardless. 

Id have waited on both. Breslow thought he was smart getting ahead of it. Neither were any kind of guarantee and neither have really contributed at the MLB level.

 

[moonslav59]

17 minutes ago, southpaw777 said:

Id have waited on both. Breslow thought he was smart getting ahead of it. Neither were any kind of guarantee and neither have really contributed at the MLB level.

Was "getting ahead" a good idea" with Rafaela?

Bello's deal looked okay, then bad, and now maybe okay again.

[Old Red]

7 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Fantasy land.

Keep hanging on to those comforting thoughts about little Anthony, because that’s all you got, and maybe one day he may live up to some of the hype, and expectations you, and others has heaped on him for the past few years, but it’s going to be a long wait until next baseball season whenever that is. Now that is fantasy land.

[Old Red]

59 minutes ago, southpaw777 said:

Oh, I’m 100% sure this came from Breslow. I think it’s the dumbest way to play a playoff baseball game. I don’t think it gives you the best chance to win. Eric Miller looked bad down the stretch and they went to him twice. Dumb. The game wasn’t even close to out of hand. Gray was right. He’s the best starter the 3rd time through. It’s analytics BS. And Tolle is a gamer. I’d have let h8m at least finish that inning.

I guess that’s the way some teams play the game now, whatever. I’ll never agree that that’s the way you should play the game. And I don’t agree that it gives you the best chance to win the game. You shouldn’t rely on middle relievers over your top starters. Especially when some have not looked good in September. Crochet had zero business in that situation just coming off a season long injury with no real game time. Maybe if we had a lead early, but not then. Lots of stupid decisions which is concerning moving forward if Breslow is indeed calling the shots.
 

if this is they way they are going to use their starters in the playoffs going forward, then we’re gonna lose a lot of games IMO.

Good post. This was all discussed on the airwaves before the Yankees series started on if the decisions were going to be decided by the geeks, and nerds, or managed by actual people going on a feel on how the game was actually playing out. We got our answer. Lot less complaints by some  on here then out on the airwaves, which isn’t surprising. Not just callers to the shows, but analysts on ESPN, and MLB are shaking their heads at Tracy, and his pitching decisions.

[notin]

14 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Good post. This was all discussed on the airwaves before the Yankees series started on if the decisions were going to be decided by the geeks, and nerds, or managed by actual people going on a feel on how the game was actually playing out. We got our answer. Lot less complaints by some  on here then out on the airwaves, which isn’t surprising. Not just callers to the shows, but analysts on ESPN, and MLB are shaking their heads at Tracy, and his pitching decisions.

So the radio talking heads decided these decisions came from “geeks and nerds” and not people who know the game?

By chance how many of these radio personnel had MLB careers longer than Craig Breslow?  Or had minor league careers as long as Chad Tracy did?