Chad Tracy Gets 3-Year Deal

[notin]

1 hour ago, southpaw777 said:

I hope that’s not the case. I questioned both this and Campbells premature deals. In my opinion, you wait for a FULL MLB YEAR so the pitchers can adjust then you can see how the player adjusts back. Campbell had questions with his swing but had a good first month. When they adjusted to his holes in that swing he couldn’t adjust back. Now he’s a AAA player making 7m per. Anthony looked good before they adjusted to him when he got hurt. The next year he never really got going before getting hurt again. He never adjusted back but they gave him 16.25 per regardless. 

Id have waited on both. Breslow thought he was smart getting ahead of it. Neither were any kind of guarantee and neither have really contributed at the MLB level.

 

Why? 

If you have faith in the player, pay him.  It doesn’t always work out, but if it does it pays for itself.

And there isn’t always opportunity to sign a player later.  Waiting didn’t work out so well with Mookie Betts.

Campbell remains the only Red Sox player to extend before his MLB debut, but it’s been done at least 10 other times with mixed outcomes, and a few TBD due to recency.

Some notable active non-Red Sox players that extended with less than one year include Kevin McGonigle, Konnor Griffin, Jackson Chourio, Colt Keith, Sam Basallo, Julio Rodriguez, Ronald Acuna, Michael Harris, Luis Lara, Cooper Pratt, Colt Emerson, Luis Robert Jr. Eloy Jimenez, Corbin Carroll, Tim Anderson, and Michael Harris. Lots of Braves, Brewers and White Sox.  Others, like Jackson Merrill, waited for one year.  Merrill also gor paid more than most of the players on that list, but still had very little service time.

This is not uncommon and not unwise…

[Old Red]

1 hour ago, notin said:

So the radio talking heads decided these decisions came from “geeks and nerds” and not people who know the game?

By chance how many of these radio personnel had MLB careers longer than Craig Breslow?  Or had minor league careers as long as Chad Tracy did?

The analysis on MLB are radio personnel? I would say most of the ex players had longer MLB careers than Bres, and probably not as long of minor league careers as Tracy, because they didn’t need to be, so I’ll say again if you want to have happy thoughts that Tracy, and Brez has all the knowledge on everyone else you’ve got plenty of time since Boston was two, and DONE

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Keep hanging on to those comforting thoughts about little Anthony, because that’s all you got, and maybe one day he may live up to some of the hype, and expectations you, and others has heaped on him for the past few years, but it’s going to be a long wait until next baseball season whenever that is. Now that is fantasy land.

My comments have nothing to do with my Anthony expectations. In fact, I just posted I'm counting on nothing from him in 2027.

Once again, you misunderstand what people post and think. Your "different way of looking at things" is often just plain wrong, and that's why it's so different.

[notin]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

The analysis on MLB are radio personnel? I would say most of the ex players had longer MLB careers than Bres, and probably not as long of minor league careers as Tracy, because they didn’t need to be, so I’ll say again if you want to have happy thoughts that Tracy, and Brez has all the knowledge on everyone else you’ve got plenty of time since Boston was two, and DONE

So what analysts were saying that the Sox bullpen shouldn’t be managed by “geeks and nerds”?  Let’s get some names.  Specifically the ones who said it “on the airwaves before the series started.”  Your exact words.  Can’t cite Contreras and Gray.

If you think most ex-players had longer careers than Breslow’s 12 years, you clearly have no idea how long the average MLB career is.  (Hint: Less than two years.)

We both know you won’t supply names.  You’ll give some lame excuse like always, and ignore that the MLB National guys (including the ex-players) didn’t criticize Boston for using the same analytics approach everyone else uses before this series. They did wuestion their offensive struggles.  Not the same and not ehat you saud.
 

But the Gerry Callahan/Michael Holley types that have two  brain cells between them - it really does sound like something they’d say.
 

And they’d actually think is a relevant criticism even when the Sox score 2 runs in 18 innings…

 

 

 

[southpaw777]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Was "getting ahead" a good idea" with Rafaela?

Bello's deal looked okay, then bad, and now maybe okay again.

I would stick to waiting a full year no matter who it is. That’s just my way I’d do it. I don’t care about who’s worked out and who hasn’t. You’re not losing out on anything waiting a year. Or are we now complaining that the owner might have to cough up another million or two a year to play it safe? That shouldn’t be a concern for this team.

[southpaw777]

5 hours ago, Old Red said:

Good post. This was all discussed on the airwaves before the Yankees series started on if the decisions were going to be decided by the geeks, and nerds, or managed by actual people going on a feel on how the game was actually playing out. We got our answer. Lot less complaints by some  on here then out on the airwaves, which isn’t surprising. Not just callers to the shows, but analysts on ESPN, and MLB are shaking their heads at Tracy, and his pitching decisions.

Here’s a quote from a scout, which is basically what most everyone in baseball, is saying while they’re laughing at us…

"The Red Sox were beleaguered by injuries, but their mid game pitching decisions made the series a laugher," the scout said. "Seems like they are leaning so hard on the large sample size that they are ignoring what their eyes were telling them. In a must win game, the choice to never use (Aroldis) Chapman until the series was over, has had people fired for less."

in other words, as usual, the analytics nerds ignore the human element of the game and decide what the move is beforehand no matter what’s actually going on in the game. It makes no sense. Tolle was ok, and Gray was fine as well. They bring in a guy who has been struggling and promptly blows BOTH games. When in reality both starters should have been left the F**k alone.

[southpaw777]

5 hours ago, notin said:

Why? 

If you have faith in the player, pay him.  It doesn’t always work out, but if it does it pays for itself.

And there isn’t always opportunity to sign a player later.  Waiting didn’t work out so well with Mookie Betts.

Campbell remains the only Red Sox player to extend before his MLB debut, but it’s been done at least 10 other times with mixed outcomes, and a few TBD due to recency.

Some notable active non-Red Sox players that extended with less than one year include Kevin McGonigle, Konnor Griffin, Jackson Chourio, Colt Keith, Sam Basallo, Julio Rodriguez, Ronald Acuna, Michael Harris, Luis Lara, Cooper Pratt, Colt Emerson, Luis Robert Jr. Eloy Jimenez, Corbin Carroll, Tim Anderson, and Michael Harris. Lots of Braves, Brewers and White Sox.  Others, like Jackson Merrill, waited for one year.  Merrill also gor paid more than most of the players on that list, but still had very little service time.

This is not uncommon and not unwise…

It’s just my own personal preference. I don’t care if it costs a couple more million per year. That’s really the only issue with waiting a little bit, and if we’re pinching Pennie’s now in Boston…well…that’s pretty sad. 
Henry had zero intentions of giving Betts what he deserved and was going to get in FA. (30m per plus)Apples and oranges compared to the four names listed. Betts was considered a generational star where the other guys are not. 

I agree some work out and some don’t. Not all players are in the same category. All negotiations are different. I’d still wait to see the adjustment first with most every player before giving them a long term multi million dollar deal.
 

 

[notin]

2 hours ago, southpaw777 said:

It’s just my own personal preference. I don’t care if it costs a couple more million per year. That’s really the only issue with waiting a little bit, and if we’re pinching Pennie’s now in Boston…well…that’s pretty sad. 
Henry had zero intentions of giving Betts what he deserved and was going to get in FA. (30m per plus)Apples and oranges compared to the four names listed. Betts was considered a generational star where the other guys are not. 

I agree some work out and some don’t. Not all players are in the same category. All negotiations are different. I’d still wait to see the adjustment first with most every player before giving them a long term multi million dollar deal.
 

 

You’re missing the point on Betts.  Dombrowski didn’t talk extension until 2016.  But what if Betts had signed a long term extension in 2014 or 2015? And yes, teams were extending players extremely early in their career even back then.  Betts wasn’t a “generational star” that early in his career.  Don’t go confusing the year the Sox finally got around to trying to extend Betts to when it should have happened. Would he have signed? No idea.  Should the Sox have tried? Absolutely.

The risk is pretty minimal considering the alternative.  For all the complaining about Campbell, for example, his AAV is not much more than IKF got last year.

[Old Red]

8 hours ago, notin said:

So what analysts were saying that the Sox bullpen shouldn’t be managed by “geeks and nerds”?  Let’s get some names.  Specifically the ones who said it “on the airwaves before the series started.”  Your exact words.  Can’t cite Contreras and Gray.

If you think most ex-players had longer careers than Breslow’s 12 years, you clearly have no idea how long the average MLB career is.  (Hint: Less than two years.)

We both know you won’t supply names.  You’ll give some lame excuse like always, and ignore that the MLB National guys (including the ex-players) didn’t criticize Boston for using the same analytics approach everyone else uses before this series. They did wuestion their offensive struggles.  Not the same and not ehat you saud.
 

But the Gerry Callahan/Michael Holley types that have two  brain cells between them - it really does sound like something they’d say.
 

And they’d actually think is a relevant criticism even when the Sox score 2 runs in 18 innings…

 

 

 

You guys never cease to amaze me now questioning the credentials of everyone criticizing Tracy, and Brez. OMG! OMG! ?Tracy now will live on for years on a once in a lifetime magic carpet ride of 37 games no matter what his record on either side of that was , and then made a quick 2 game exit after a feeble attempt of managing in the postseason. If you haven’t seen, or heard any criticism of Tracy, and the Red Sox outside of me you’ve definitely stuck your head in the sand, and haven’t come up for air. Saying other people don’t have two brain cells between them, and you do is just past ridiculous, and wishful thinking on your part.. Go have some Miller Time, and enjoy the long,  long offseason, and cherish your Chad Tracy moments. You have NOTHING else.😭😂👋

[Old Red]

4 hours ago, southpaw777 said:

Here’s a quote from a scout, which is basically what most everyone in baseball, is saying while they’re laughing at us…

"The Red Sox were beleaguered by injuries, but their mid game pitching decisions made the series a laugher," the scout said. "Seems like they are leaning so hard on the large sample size that they are ignoring what their eyes were telling them. In a must win game, the choice to never use (Aroldis) Chapman until the series was over, has had people fired for less."

in other words, as usual, the analytics nerds ignore the human element of the game and decide what the move is beforehand no matter what’s actually going on in the game. It makes no sense. Tolle was ok, and Gray was fine as well. They bring in a guy who has been struggling and promptly blows BOTH games. When in reality both starters should have been left the F**k alone.

Well said, and what most people are saying in RSN, and everywhere else yet some on here still want answers, and can’t handle the truth. You don’t have to go very far for those answers either, but if you plug your ears, and close your eyes you will never find them, and just maybe if you hope long enough maybe the short stay in the postseason didn’t really happen even though most fans know it did.

[NHNative]

Yup---simply---they blew it and for no good reason.

[notin]

31 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You guys never cease to amaze me now questioning the credentials of everyone criticizing Tracy, and Brez. OMG! OMG! ?Tracy now will live on for years on a once in a lifetime magic carpet ride of 37 games no matter what his record on either side of that was , and then made a quick 2 game exit after a feeble attempt of managing in the postseason. If you haven’t seen, or heard any criticism of Tracy, and the Red Sox outside of me you’ve definitely stuck your head in the sand, and haven’t come up for air. Saying other people don’t have two brain cells between them, and you do is just past ridiculous, and wishful thinking on your part.. Go have some Miller Time, and enjoy the long,  long offseason, and cherish your Chad Tracy moments. You have NOTHING else.😭😂👋

No names? Shocking! It’s almost like I predicted it.  I’m not questioning the credentials of anyone criticizing Tracy and Breslow.  I’m questions the existence of this one particular comment.  But I guess your only defense is to turn it into something it’s not…

[NHNative]

Someone explain to me why Tolle and Gray were yanked early.

[notin]

22 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Well said, and what most people are saying in RSN, and everywhere else yet some on here still want answers, and can’t handle the truth. You don’t have to go very far for those answers either, but if you plug your ears, and close your eyes you will never find them, and just maybe if you hope long enough maybe the short stay in the postseason didn’t really happen even though most fans know it did.

I wasn’t talking about criticisms from after the game.  I was asking about the ones you talked about from before the series.  There’s a difference…

[moonslav59]

5 hours ago, southpaw777 said:

I would stick to waiting a full year no matter who it is. That’s just my way I’d do it. I don’t care about who’s worked out and who hasn’t. You’re not losing out on anything waiting a year. Or are we now complaining that the owner might have to cough up another million or two a year to play it safe? That shouldn’t be a concern for this team.

You do care, and it does cause concern for you.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

I wasn’t talking about criticisms from after the game.  I was asking about the ones you talked about from before the series.  There’s a difference…

Yup, and who wasn't concerned before the series?

Nobody was deaf to the problems. When you ask them who specifically they can't find even one example.

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, NHNative said:

Someone explain to me why Tolle and Gray were yanked early.

Just listen to AJ P who explains it pretty well that Tracy was just following the playbook handed to him by the front office, and the geeks, and nerds before the Yankee series started.

[Old Red]

22 minutes ago, NHNative said:

Yup---simply---they blew it and for no good reason.

They blew the pitching decisions no doubt.

[mvp 78]

3 hours ago, notin said:

You’re missing the point on Betts.  Dombrowski didn’t talk extension until 2016.  But what if Betts had signed a long term extension in 2014 or 2015?

They would have had Betts through '21 or '22 and we'd probably be in the same spot or still in rebuild mode. 

[mvp 78]

29 minutes ago, NHNative said:

Someone explain to me why Tolle and Gray were yanked early.

Pitchers generally get worse the third time through the order. Breslow has decided that the bullpen would be more effective in those situations. Maybe getting their doors blown off by the Yankees this year will change that determination next time? 

[mvp 78]

19 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Just listen to AJ P who explains it pretty well that Tracy was just following the playbook handed to him by the front office, and the geeks, and nerds before the Yankee series started.

The geeks and nerds brought you 04, 07, 13 and 18 thank you very much. 

[NHNative]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Pitchers generally get worse the third time through the order. Breslow has decided that the bullpen would be more effective in those situations. Maybe getting their doors blown off by the Yankees this year will change that determination next time? 

makes no sense to me. They were doing fine and just getting warmed up.

[mvp 78]

Just now, NHNative said:

makes no sense to me. They were doing fine and just getting warmed up.

Some baseball teams have headed in that direction. As long as the bullpen is good enough, it typically works out. This pen had a really bad series. 

[Old Red]

9 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The geeks and nerds brought you 04, 07, 13 and 18 thank you very much. 

That’s your thinking? Manny, Papi, Schilling, Betts, and many others had a lot more to do with it than any. Geeks, and nerds.Come on man!🙈🤭

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Some baseball teams have headed in that direction. As long as the bullpen is good enough, it typically works out. This pen had a really bad series. 

You think? You still think Miller Time was the best option both times in a 1-0 game? Was it because he had pitched so well the last two weeks of the season?🤮

[NHNative]

I am not getting down on the team. I think Chad has brought something special to the Sox. Seems we just need to smooth a few wrinkles in the offense. Just hope the owners and players can agree in Dec. and take the unknown away.

[Old Red]

17 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Pitchers generally get worse the third time through the order. Breslow has decided that the bullpen would be more effective in those situations. Maybe getting their doors blown off by the Yankees this year will change that determination next time? 

So with the season on the line, and your best pitcher on the mound, and something the Red Sox hadn’t done all year long it was time for Sonny Gray  who had only thrown 71 pitches to come out, and  bring in the always reliable Miller Time, because he was a better, and best option?

[JimEd]

56 minutes ago, NHNative said:

Someone explain to me why Tolle and Gray were yanked early.

because Tracy is not a manager and has no feel for the game. he is just a placeholder for a bunch of AI (Anal Itics) nerds who tell him what moves to make and when.

[Old Red]

6 minutes ago, NHNative said:

I am not getting down on the team. I think Chad has brought something special to the Sox. Seems we just need to smooth a few wrinkles in the offense. Just hope the owners and players can agree in Dec. and take the unknown away.

Don’t get to caught up in the 37 game magic carpet ride. There was a lot more to the season than that.

[mvp 78]

12 minutes ago, Old Red said:

That’s your thinking? Manny, Papi, Schilling, Betts, and many others had a lot more to do with it than any. Geeks, and nerds.Come on man!🙈🤭

You guys have been whining about geeks ruining baseball going back to the Dan Duquette days. At some point, you'll need to find a new hobby horse.