Chad Tracy Gets 3-Year Deal

[drewski6]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

They sure hit some rocket shots off Crochet... Not!

Tracy is fine.

The team has holes, but IMO not as many as some seem to think we have. I do see the point that having 7-8 just barely better than average players in the most key 15 roles may not work out well. It seems we've done a pretty good job reducing the black hole elements and building up a bench that appears to not be black holish either, but we last star power.

The only key guy we lose (possibly) is Gray.

One more control  year for Story & Yoshida might make signing a stud to a long range deal look more reasonable- budget wise.

These two games were embarrassing. That's being kind.

 

 

Well said.

[notin]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Tracy was just following Breslow's gameplan. It was actually a gameplan that many have used in the playoffs prior to this year. I think the issue is that the bullpen just didn't have the horses by the time the postseason came around. Maybe it works better if Guerrero was healthy? I think you'll see Kevin Cash and David Roberts manage very similarly. 

Not to mention roasting Tracy for the bullpen management in a game in which the offense got shut out?  Did it matter that Miller gave up runs when the Sox never even made up the ground they lost on Austin Well’ second inning single?

[drewski6]

6 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

They need to take a good hard look and determine who is going to be around for the next several years. Anyone who they can't build around for 3-4 years (and rely on!) shouldn't be a part of the plan. Make trades to extend the window. 

Players that could be gone after next season: Masa, Story, Conteras, Chapman, Whitlock, Houck, Rutschman, Oviedo

That's a huge turnover that doesn't even include a guy like Duran who people have soured on and Gray who seems like he doesn't want to be here going forward. They need to really figure out what this competitive window is and who should be included. They can't play it by ear year to year. There needs to be a real plan as their prospect pipeline has dried up and they no longer have the assets to deal from. This FO isn't able to successfully manage the FA market! How will they build the next WS team? 

Have you tried convincing yourself that Owen will be pre-injury Trout?  Can we speak/pray/voodoo that into existence?  Are there script writers we can pay off?

[notin]

15 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Pitching and defense isn't what allowed the Yankees to beat the Sox down. 

NYY 26 H

BOS 7 H

Sox went all in on pitching and defense and the pitching and defense didn't show up when it mattered. The way to actually win is to be a well rounded team. You need to be top 10 at all facets of the game, not top 5 pitching/defense and bottom 5 offense. 

It’s also two games.   The highest scoring team in MLB this year also got eliminated yesterday and scored even fewer runs than Boston this postseason…

[mvp 78]

Just now, drewski6 said:

Have you tried convincing yourself that Owen will be pre-injury Trout?  Can we speak/pray/voodoo that into existence?  Are there script writers we can pay off?

Owen Hull is years away. I'm not going to even think about him in a BOS jersey yet. 

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Also embarrassing is 73 runs in the last 26 games.  This was a team that could put up a ton of zeroes on both sides of the board.

We can't blame this on injuries, either. We got Anthony and Story back. Sure, the Mead injury hurt, but every team has a good player or more out.

[mvp 78]

Just now, notin said:

It’s also two games.   The highest scoring team in MLB this year also got eliminated yesterday and scored even fewer runs than Boston this postseason…

The Cubs losing was less surprising as that team had no pitching, but was all offense. 

[mvp 78]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

We can't blame this on injuries, either. We got Anthony and Story back. Sure, the Mead injury hurt, but every team has a good player or more out.

Anthony was still injured. He shouldn't have come back. 

[drewski6]

Just now, notin said:

It’s also two games.   The highest scoring team in MLB this year also got eliminated yesterday and scored even fewer runs than Boston this postseason…

Is it two games? Because we noodlebatted our way out of the playoffs last year, was 23rd out of 30 in runs scored this year, and were absolutely embarrassing on offense this playoffs.   I dont think its fair to paint this as small sample bad luck.  We went heavy on pitching and D.

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Well said.

Thanks. I've been countering you pretty hard, lately, but your points were very well taken by me.

We do need a bat. Counting on Mead, AR and improvements only goes so far.

[Old Red]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

We can't blame this on injuries, either. We got Anthony and Story back. Sure, the Mead injury hurt, but every team has a good player or more out.

Yes getting NOman little Anthony back from his vacation in Florida was a real boost to the team morale, and the lineup. NOT!

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

Anthony was still injured. He shouldn't have come back. 

It looks that way. We were already playing some subs of subs, and even to the 3rd or 4th level at 2B and SS (DH.) 

Fangraphs had us at the most WAR lost due to injury, and hopefully we are not the leaders there next year, but we need to fix 2-3 slots, IMO, and not by minor differentials.

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Anthony was still injured. He shouldn't have come back. 

Bingo! His two AB against the Yankees it looked like he wasn’t ready to swing, and didn’t want to swing.

[drewski6]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Thanks. I've been countering you pretty hard, lately, but your points were very well taken by me.

We do need a bat. Counting on Mead, AR and improvements only goes so far.

There has to be some relying on returners and prospects fatigue.  Last offseason we were told by Joe Brady and Kimmi that we didnt need a big bat because Casas.  My fear is that we'll hear most of the same.  I understand that you can build a depth chart that doesnt look horrible with just returners, but it feels like running it back will most likely yield the same results.  Even if we divvy up Romans at bats.

[notin]

6 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

The Cubs losing was less surprising as that team had no pitching, but was all offense. 

And that “all offense” put together one run against Michael King and Nick Pivetta.  At least the Sox faced the Cy Young favorite and Max Fried, where getting shut down might not be acceptable, but it is at a minimum understandable….

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

Yes getting NOman little Anthony back from his vacation in Florida was a real boost to the team morale, and the lineup. NOT!

Your obsession with certain players' failures, then never letting go, needs some self-reflection at best or some serious therapy sessions.

[mvp 78]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

It looks that way. We were already playing some subs of subs, and even to the 3rd or 4th level at 2B and SS (DH.) 

Fangraphs had us at the most WAR lost due to injury, and hopefully we are not the leaders there next year, but we need to fix 2-3 slots, IMO, and not by minor differentials.

He said that he still had pain when he came back and that it got worse than ever during the WC game which is why he was shut down. I hope the Sox can get to the root of the issue and fix it. Rest didn't seem to do the trick. This guy was supposed to be the franchise and putting him out there when he was injured isn't smart to me. 

[Bellhorn04]

17 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Not when you have to face the Yankees right out of the gate even without Stanton, and JUDGE.

Sure seems that way now.  But I think going into the series most of us thought they had a shot if things broke their way.  Quite the opposite happened of course.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The Red Sox just need one bat: the one that Manny Ramirez swung from 2001 to 2008... with '01-08 Manny swinging it.

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

There has to be some relying on returners and prospects fatigue.  Last offseason we were told by Joe Brady and Kimmi that we didnt need a big bat because Casas.  My fear is that we'll hear most of the same.  I understand that you can build a depth chart that doesnt look horrible with just returners, but it feels like running it back will most likely yield the same results.  Even if we divvy up Romans at bats.

You're the Owen Hull guy, right? 

To me, I just can't rely on guys that are injured coming back healthy (Roman, Crochet, Houck, et al). I can't rely on prospects who haven't performed to replicate their MiLB performance at the MLB level. I can be excited to see them, but I'm not going to count on them to be above average regulars from day one (think Xander 2014). I can't rely on journeyman types, especially guys who have only shown brief stretches of good to great performances (Mead, Gasper, et al).  Seems like that's the majority of the roster right now unfortunately. 

[Bellhorn04]

13 minutes ago, notin said:

Not to mention roasting Tracy for the bullpen management in a game in which the offense got shut out?  Did it matter that Miller gave up runs when the Sox never even made up the ground they lost on Austin Well’ second inning single?

Sure, but that's the kind of perspective we can only have when the game is over.  The manager is in effect let off the hook because they were going to lose anyway.

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Sure, but that's the kind of perspective we can only have when the game is over.  The manager is in effect let off the hook because they were going to lose anyway.

Managers have been managing the postseason like this for several years right now. Tracy is just following Breslow's directive about starting pitchers and the 3rd time through the order in the playoffs. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Breslow has spent big on exactly one hitter: Bregman.

And some poster thinks that overpay was entirely worth it to ownership for one year in a master plan to dump the 10 year contract of their only established HR power.

[notin]

2 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

There has to be some relying on returners and prospects fatigue.  Last offseason we were told by Joe Brady and Kimmi that we didnt need a big bat because Casas.  My fear is that we'll hear most of the same.  I understand that you can build a depth chart that doesnt look horrible with just returners, but it feels like running it back will most likely yield the same results.  Even if we divvy up Romans at bats.

Getting a big bat is easier said than done.  The free agent market will have names like Arozarena and Suzuki (who probably re-signs with Chicago) and not much else. Ryan Jeffers is a top 5 slugger at a minimum there, and might even be top three. I think Josh Bell, a quietly good hitter, is available, but is also the slugger equivalent of vanilla ice cream.

Once the CBA cloud settles, trade?  Would you trade Abreu, Arias, and Bennett for Fernando Tatis (8 yrs $270mill and still somehow only 27 years old for what seems like 4 years now)?  If SD is looking to shed payroll, would they do this? (They are looking to shed payroll, but Jake Cronenworth is the payroll they prefer to move.)

That does seem like a good package for Tatis.  I think it makes them think hard, but not so sure they go for it…

[notin]

7 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

You're the Owen Hull guy, right? 

To me, I just can't rely on guys that are injured coming back healthy (Roman, Crochet, Houck, et al). I can't rely on prospects who haven't performed to replicate their MiLB performance at the MLB level. I can be excited to see them, but I'm not going to count on them to be above average regulars from day one (think Xander 2014). I can't rely on journeyman types, especially guys who have only shown brief stretches of good to great performances (Mead, Gasper, et al).  Seems like that's the majority of the roster right now unfortunately. 

Mead isn’t really a journeyman type.  He’s 25 (26 on Monday) and at least had a solid prospect pedigree, and his role in Washington was largely weak side platoon (at which he excelled) but he found his way to being a full timer.

Gasper is next up in the Morgan Burkhart/ Darnell McDonald procession…

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

That does seem like a good package for Tatis.  I think it makes them think hard, but not so sure they go for it…

We've talked about Tatis for years, but the Sox haven't tried to swing an offer. The Sox were looking to get Elly at the deadline. I think that's more likely this offseason. 

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, notin said:

Mead isn’t really a journeyman type.  He’s 25 (26 on Monday) and at least had a solid prospect pedigree, and his role in Washington was largely weak side platoon (at which he excelled) but he found his way to being a full timer.

Gasper is next up in the Morgan Burkhart/ Darnell McDonald procession…

26 and in his 4th organization = journeyman

The list of guys who followed that path and worked out is low. 

[drewski6]

18 minutes ago, notin said:

And that “all offense” put together one run against Michael King and Nick Pivetta.  At least the Sox faced the Cy Young favorite and Max Fried, where getting shut down might not be acceptable, but it is at a minimum understandable….

Fried was hanging cures and throwing fastballs middle-middle quite a bit.

[drewski6]

17 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

The Red Sox just need one bat: the one that Manny Ramirez swung from 2001 to 2008... with '01-08 Manny swinging it.

Well the Yankees just blew us out and added an even better bat to their team in Judge.

[drewski6]

14 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

You're the Owen Hull guy, right? 

To me, I just can't rely on guys that are injured coming back healthy (Roman, Crochet, Houck, et al). I can't rely on prospects who haven't performed to replicate their MiLB performance at the MLB level. I can be excited to see them, but I'm not going to count on them to be above average regulars from day one (think Xander 2014). I can't rely on journeyman types, especially guys who have only shown brief stretches of good to great performances (Mead, Gasper, et al).  Seems like that's the majority of the roster right now unfortunately. 

I agree : relying on KC, Mayer and Anthony is the problem.  YOu should never rely on a rookie for a top 5 batting order spot.  The season was lost when we didnt get Bregman and Alonso.  Because then you can survive Roman injuries and Duran struggling, and Story injuries...

True depth is having good hitters 1 through 9. Not by having good backups.  Ben Rice is Judges backup for feared thumper, which is more important than any position defensively.