Red Sox Trade The Password

[moonslav59]

Oviedo since 2022: 274 IP at ages 24-27:

3.97 ERA and 110 ERA+

4.40 FIP due to 4.2 BB/9

His K/9 has ticked up- post TJS- from 7.8 to 9.4 in a small sample size in 2025 (40 IP)

He has a 91 ERA- since '22, which is better than Joe Ryan, Pivetta, Lodolo, Bassitt, Kirby, Bello and others. (8th out of 205 pitchers with 250+ IP- tied with Cease & Rodon.) This shows he's close to #3 level, but look at his FIP....

His 4.40 FIP placed him at 147th out of 205, which is maybe #5 territory.

 

[FredLynn]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Today. 

Any time

[Nick]

Sean McAdam: “If the Red Sox were looking for someone to slot in between ace Garrett Crochet and Gray, Oviedo isn’t it, though it’s conceivable he could soon grow into that sort of role.

As I have said often, Mr. Breslow, QUIT LYING ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO.

You promised #2 starter. QUIT LYING. ARE YOU DUMB TO THINK THE TWO STARTING ACQUISITIONS ARE #2 TYPE TODAY? PERHAPS OVIEDO WILL GROW INTO ONE, BUT HE IS NOT A #2 TODAY. DO YOU THINK THE SOX FANS ARE STUPID. YEAR AFTER YEAR, YOU AND YOUR CRONIES LIE TO US. HOW TO FIX IT? JUST SHUT UP. DON'T SAY THINGS YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY. DON'T OVER PROMISE US. I THINK YOU ARE AN HONORABLE PERSON BUT YOU SURE SCREW UP EVERY CHANCE WITH 1 WE'LL GET THE BEST PLAYERS 2 IT JUST DIDN'T WORK OUT. THAT'S BECOME YOUR TWO STEP. JUST SHUT UP WITH #2 CRAP.

 

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, FredLynn said:

Any time

Must have had beer goggles last night then? 

[mvp 78]

40 minutes ago, Nick said:

Sean McAdam: “If the Red Sox were looking for someone to slot in between ace Garrett Crochet and Gray, Oviedo isn’t it, though it’s conceivable he could soon grow into that sort of role.

As I have said often, Mr. Breslow, QUIT LYING ABOUT WHAT YOU ARE GOING TO DO.

You promised #2 starter. QUIT LYING. ARE YOU DUMB TO THINK THE TWO STARTING ACQUISITIONS ARE #2 TYPE TODAY? PERHAPS OVIEDO WILL GROW INTO ONE, BUT HE IS NOT A #2 TODAY. DO YOU THINK THE SOX FANS ARE STUPID. YEAR AFTER YEAR, YOU AND YOUR CRONIES LIE TO US. HOW TO FIX IT? JUST SHUT UP. DON'T SAY THINGS YOU DON'T HAVE TO SAY. DON'T OVER PROMISE US. I THINK YOU ARE AN HONORABLE PERSON BUT YOU SURE SCREW UP EVERY CHANCE WITH 1 WE'LL GET THE BEST PLAYERS 2 IT JUST DIDN'T WORK OUT. THAT'S BECOME YOUR TWO STEP. JUST SHUT UP WITH #2 CRAP.

 

Why does every guy that is brought in have to be the #2? The next trade/acquisition doesn't have to be a #2 or cleanup hitter. It's not how the world works. 

[moonslav59]

30 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Why does every guy that is brought in have to be the #2? The next trade/acquisition doesn't have to be a #2 or cleanup hitter. It's not how the world works. 

Then don't tell us you will get a #2, or when you get a guy like Gray or Oviedo, then explain that you pivoted away from the plan or are still going to get a #2.

It would be easier to just stop making promises you know you might not keep.

He could have just said, "We are going to try to get the best SP'er we can withing the larger plan of this winter's priorities." That would have covered Gray, but many would still complain he wasn't "good enough." At least it wouldn't 

[Hitch]

I don't understand why anyone would get this angry before the off season is over. Just chill out and see if there's a reason to be angry. Jeez.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I don't understand why anyone would get this angry before the off season is over. Just chill out and see if there's a reason to be angry. Jeez.

There is still time to add a solid #2, but I do wonder why we added a #3 and #5, when it seemed like we had enough of those types. It does seem likely we won't be getting a number 2, unless the plan is to trade a couple of those #4's and 5's we loaded up on as part of the package- or trade them for bats.

[Hitch]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

There is still time to add a solid #2, but I do wonder why we added a #3 and #5, when it seemed like we had enough of those types. It does seem likely we won't be getting a number 2, unless the plan is to trade a couple of those #4's and 5's we loaded up on as part of the package- or trade them for bats.

Yeah, the moves are somewhat surprising in ways, I'm looking forward to what's coming next, because clearly we aren't done.

[mvp 78]

24 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Then don't tell us you will get a #2, or when you get a guy like Gray or Oviedo, then explain that you pivoted away from the plan or are still going to get a #2.

It would be easier to just stop making promises you know you might not keep.

He could have just said, "We are going to try to get the best SP'er we can withing the larger plan of this winter's priorities." That would have covered Gray, but many would still complain he wasn't "good enough." At least it wouldn't 

Did he say he pivoted away from the plan and is now not getting a #2? 

It's still December 5th. The winter meetings haven't even started yet. He needs to upgrade the whole roster, not just add a #2, a 1b and a 3b. 

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, Hitch said:

Yeah, the moves are somewhat surprising in ways, I'm looking forward to what's coming next, because clearly we aren't done.

If he's not done, what is there to get worked up about unless this specific trade is a problem.

Ignore the idea of a #2, was this trade good or not? 

[mvp 78]

20 minutes ago, Hitch said:

I don't understand why anyone would get this angry before the off season is over. Just chill out and see if there's a reason to be angry. Jeez.

When Breslow makes a perfectly fine trade but it doesn't include a #2:

[Donnie Sadler was short]

49 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

There is still time to add a solid #2, but I do wonder why we added a #3 and #5, when it seemed like we had enough of those types. It does seem likely we won't be getting a number 2, unless the plan is to trade a couple of those #4's and 5's we loaded up on as part of the package- or trade them for bats.

THIS.....now we have many young pitchers we can trade for a true #2 along with Duran if they choose.

[Deja Doh]

Oviedo at this point is a number 12.  3 years ago he pitched (32) almost half of the total number of games he's played in (81) over 6 seasons.  I don't see this helping us.

[FredLynn]

2 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

Why does every guy that is brought in have to be the #2? The next trade/acquisition doesn't have to be a #2 or cleanup hitter. It's not how the world works. 

Who is claiming that the next acquisition has to be the #2 or the bat they need? As long as Breslow accomplishes his task and doesn’t try to pass off a dandelion as a rose I think we will all be happy. Unfortunately that’s what he’s done in the past.

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

Who is claiming that the next acquisition has to be the #2 or the bat they need? As long as Breslow accomplishes his task and doesn’t try to pass off a dandelion as a rose I think we will all be happy. Unfortunately that’s what he’s done in the past.

I think you are confusing Breslow with Bloom. 

[Nick]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Then don't tell us you will get a #2, or when you get a guy like Gray or Oviedo, then explain that you pivoted away from the plan or are still going to get a #2.

It would be easier to just stop making promises you know you might not keep.

He could have just said, "We are going to try to get the best SP'er we can withing the larger plan of this winter's priorities." That would have covered Gray, but many would still complain he wasn't "good enough." At least it wouldn't 

Exactly....Quit making gradiose promises. They are unnecessary and makes one look like a con man. Shouldn't an Ivy Leaguer do better? I can do it because I'm just an IU grad.

[Hugh2]

It shouldn't be their job to get a guy who has been a #2, rather it should be their job to get a guy who is GOING TO BE a #2. 

If you look back at who the best 20 pitchers in the league were the last several years, half those are guys you never would guess would be there the several years prior to that. 

Sox might very well fail to do that, and they deserve all the grief in the world if they do.  But lets not pretend like any of us really have any ideal what they think Ocviedo, Sandoval, Gray can do.  Teams take guys, tinker, and develop them into something they were not a year ago all the time......and they fail all the time too. 

I say let the Sox cook, and judge them on the results. 

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

It shouldn't be their job to get a guy who has been a #2, rather it should be their job to get a guy who is GOING TO BE a #2. 

If you look back at who the best 20 pitchers in the league were the last several years, half those are guys you never would guess would be there the several years prior to that. 

Sox might very well fail to do that, and they deserve all the grief in the world if they do.  But lets not pretend like any of us really have any ideal what they think Ocviedo, Sandoval, Gray can do.  Teams take guys, tinker, and develop them into something they were not a year ago all the time......and they fail all the time too. 

I say let the Sox cook, and judge them on the results. 

Not everyone likes spaghetti though.🤮

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

Did he say he pivoted away from the plan and is now not getting a #2? 

Agreed. That's why I said he should explain  he's still looking for a #2 and not talk like Gray is or might be, although he never claimed he was "that guy" he promised.

I'd also like to know if he thinks signing Realmuto addresses the need for power.

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Agreed. That's why I said he should explain  he's still looking for a #2 and not talk like Gray is or might be, although he never claimed he was "that guy" he promised.

I'd also like to know if he thinks signing Realmuto addresses the need for power.

He shouldn't have to explain anything, but he really brought it on himself by opening up his mouth to begin with. 

[Kimmi]

9 minutes ago, Nick said:

Exactly....Quit making gradiose promises. They are unnecessary and makes one look like a con man. Shouldn't an Ivy Leaguer do better? I can do it because I'm just an IU grad.

The moves made so far this offseason have been solid, yet underwhelming for those who are looking for a blockbuster type move.  I get it.  I don't think Breslow is near being finished though.  We have to wait and see how the rest of the offseason plays out.

I think fans like to know what the GM's intentions are, but perhaps some vague comments like 'we would like to improve the pitching and the offense' might suit them better.  Then again, maybe not.  We certainly can do without comments like "full throttle" from a couple of years ago.

[Kimmi]

At least now I don't have to learn how to spell his name.

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

He shouldn't have to explain anything, but he really brought it on himself by opening up his mouth to begin with. 

Yes, and I just about said the same thing. Don't tell the fans something then not follow through or explain a change in plans.

He may still get us a #2. (MN just said Ryan is staying in MN.) Then, no explaining is needed, but that's not the only priority stated to the fans.

I've said this before: I'd rather they stay quiet than lie or decieve.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Kimmi said:

The moves made so far this offseason have been solid, yet underwhelming for those who are looking for a blockbuster type move.  I get it.  I don't think Breslow is near being finished though.  We have to wait and see how the rest of the offseason plays out.

I think fans like to know what the GM's intentions are, but perhaps some vague comments like 'we would like to improve the pitching and the offense' might suit them better.  Then again, maybe not.  We certainly can do without comments like "full throttle" from a couple of years ago.

I'm fine with minor moves that are meant to improve the system. There is a long way to go.

Right now, I am wondering why we traded from one logjam (ML ready OF'ers) to add to a different logjam (ML ready SP'ers.)

I'm guessing further moves will be trading away pitchers. Even 4-5 SP'ers are in high demand.

[Kimmi]

8 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, and I just about said the same thing. Don't tell the fans something then not follow through or explain a change in plans.

He may still get us a #2. (MN just said Ryan is staying in MN.) Then, no explaining is needed, but that's not the only priority stated to the fans.

I've said this before: I'd rather they stay quiet than lie or decieve.

There is a lot more that goes into a trade or into signing a free agent than what we are aware of.  Unless a team is willing to grossly overpay for a player, there are 29 or 30 other teams who might factor into the equation.  The targeted player's demands and wishes must also be taken into account.  Maybe a player doesn't want to play on the east coast, for instance.

All that to say that I don't think Breslow is intentionally lying or deceiving us about a #2 starting pitcher being one of his top priorities.   I acknowledge that the FO's idea of a reasonable price to pay for a player is probably much different than the fans' idea, and therein lies the problem, I think.

[Kimmi]

23 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm fine with minor moves that are meant to improve the system. There is a long way to go.

Right now, I am wondering why we traded from one logjam (ML ready OF'ers) to add to a different logjam (ML ready SP'ers.)

I'm guessing further moves will be trading away pitchers. Even 4-5 SP'ers are in high demand.

As the saying goes, you can never have enough pitching.  I do agree, however, that further moves involving trading away some pitching are likely coming.

I haven't looked into what kind of options our pitchers have remaining, but I like the idea of stashing as much pitching depth as reasonably possible.

[Larry Cook]

18 hours ago, notin said:

The Sox have 14 starting pitchers on their 40 man roster, 15 if you count the recently DFAd Criswell.   And those are just the starters.  Maybe a few get pushed to the pen, since they only have 7 RPs right now.

To me, that tells me a trade involving a SP or two is not only imminent, but also necessary.  They can’t start the season with more than 27 pitchers on the 40 man roster. 
 

And why was Criswell DFAd?  They didn’t need to clear a 40 man roster spot for Oviedo…

I thought they dfa’d Criswell ( now a met) for the reliever. 

[Larry Cook]

52 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm fine with minor moves that are meant to improve the system. There is a long way to go.

Right now, I am wondering why we traded from one logjam (ML ready OF'ers) to add to a different logjam (ML ready SP'ers.)

I'm guessing further moves will be trading away pitchers. Even 4-5 SP'ers are in high demand.

We do need left handed relievers!!!

[JoeBrady]

16 hours ago, Randy Red Sox said:

I thought we already had several #4-5 SP options.

I expect Oviedo to be in the BP/depth starter.  And I like Guzman a fair amount.  Huge defensive scores.