Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[Larry Cook]

20 minutes ago, Old Red said:

How does that make any difference on if Campbell was rushed, or not,and it wasn’t even a question if others were rushed more, and two completely different situations position, and otherwise. 

Not all prospects have the same timeline. They grow learn and mature as hitters at different speeds. 
Campbell never had to overcome adversity or have to learn to make adjustments in the minor leagues. 
even Anthony faced adversity in Portland and learned to adjust to how they were pitching him. 

[Old Red]

6 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

It doesn't. I was answering another question.

Again, I'm not claiming he wasn't rushed, only that we can not be certain "being rushed" was the reason he slumped.

I just don’t get why it’s such a big deal using the term rushed even though that was the prevailing opinion at the time on the airwaves, and the print media, and if it was any part of the reason KC didn’t last long up in Boston last year. To me it’s not such a big deal getting sent back down to the minors as it’s been a passage of time for many players throughout the years. To me the bigger deal was that KC never made his way back up to Boston. That was the bigger deal IMO. If it makes some feel better to say he wasn’t rushed then so be it. You could call it like KC did himself when he said it was like him being redshirted like he was in college.In the end I hope KC turns out as good as the Red Sox think he will to give him that contract.

[Old Red]

8 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Not all prospects have the same timeline. They grow learn and mature as hitters at different speeds. 
Campbell never had to overcome adversity or have to learn to make adjustments in the minor leagues. 
even Anthony faced adversity in Portland and learned to adjust to how they were pitching him. 

Well said.

[Hitch]

8 hours ago, Old Red said:

It’s not just the 10-12 week stretch, which can yes make a big difference, but both Mayer, and Anthony had a lot more minor league games, and AB under their belts, which can make a big difference also. Campbell wasn’t ready, and that’s why he didn’t  last long in Boston, or ever come back up.🤔

There's another point on Campbell that was made first by McAdams (I think) - when you fly through the minors in the speed he did, the level never has time to adjust to you. So you whizz through but never come up against a whole league adjusting to your abilities, and therefore have no experience of then readjusting back. 

It's worrying he didn't make big strides while back down in AAA. If had have done, this conversation (and the hope around him) would be very different. 

 

Edit - I see Larry has made a similar point at the top of the page.

[Hugh2]

On 11/15/2025 at 11:17 AM, FredLynn said:

Nope. After all, Henry and his family have to eat, right?

The poor Henry's the must of starved last year. 

[Hugh2]

2 hours ago, Hitch said:

There's another point on Campbell that was made first by McAdams (I think) - when you fly through the minors in the speed he did, the level never has time to adjust to you. So you whizz through but never come up against a whole league adjusting to your abilities, and therefore have no experience of then readjusting back. 

It's worrying he didn't make big strides while back down in AAA. If had have done, this conversation (and the hope around him) would be very different. 

 

Edit - I see Larry has made a similar point at the top of the page.

This is also a REALLY good example of why you don't just promot someone everytime they're batting .300

It's often about so much more than that with so many other variable to consider.  This is why I'm often vocal whenever someoen comes out and starts calling a guy in A ball the guy who should come up and play at the MLB level. 

I think it was over a year ago that there were calls for Franklin Arias to come up and be the short stop because he could pick it. 

Lots of weird things were going on with Campbell, he lost a ton of weight and allegedly his bat speed cratered, which is concering but the weight loss adds reason to that.  It makes me hopeful that If he can put the weight back on and keep it on he can return to the guy he was in 2024. 

Allegedly Campbell has put the weight back on and is back to where he was.  Lets hope that translates to the 2026 season.  Get that boy a trainer and a dietician. 

[drewski6]

On 11/14/2025 at 8:34 PM, Duran Is The Man said:

as far as FanGraphs goes....i can pull numbers out of my ass too.

no offense.

Hopefully not pointy numbers!

[moonslav59]

9 hours ago, Old Red said:

I just don’t get why it’s such a big deal using the term rushed even though that was the prevailing opinion at the time on the airwaves, and the print media, and if it was any part of the reason KC didn’t last long up in Boston last year. To me it’s not such a big deal getting sent back down to the minors as it’s been a passage of time for many players throughout the years. To me the bigger deal was that KC never made his way back up to Boston. That was the bigger deal IMO. If it makes some feel better to say he wasn’t rushed then so be it. You could call it like KC did himself when he said it was like him being redshirted like he was in college.In the end I hope KC turns out as good as the Red Sox think he will to give him that contract.

I'm not making a big deal out of the term. I said I'm fine with people's opinions that he was rushed. I think the issue is more nuances and reasons for failure are not always that clear.

If someone said he wasn't rushed, I'd question that opinion, too. Again, I'm not so "black and white"

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not making a big deal out of the term. I said I'm fine with people's opinions that he was rushed. I think the issue is more nuances and reasons for failure are not always that clear.

If someone said he wasn't rushed, I'd question that opinion, too. Again, I'm not so "black and white"

I get it you are not, but I think most fans are.

[moonslav59]

The bigger beef about Sox promotions has usually been about waiting too long. We don't promote anyone hitting .300 or with knock-out pitching numbers.

Campbell appeared to be a unique type of player. When he was over .900 after 20 games, most of us felt these guys guessed right on his promotion, even those who disagreed initially or thought the guy who ended the 2024 season on the IL, Mayer, deserved the shot first, based mostly on ST'ing numbers- something many poo-poo, all the time.

The guy fell off a cliff and sucked on D. We knew the D was not ready. His failure to adjust, or perhaps just having a slump changed everyone's mind quickly, and now many feel it just had to be "he was rushed" as the major reason. That very well could be the major reason, but it is likely there were several reasons, and one could easily be he just finally had a slump, after years of not having one.

[moonslav59]

3 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I get it you are not, but I think most fans are.

I'm not sure what "most fans are, " like you are, and that doesn't change my opinion, either.

Again, he could easily have been "rushed." I'm not saying he wasn't. Never did.

[mvp 78]

37 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Lots of weird things were going on with Campbell, he lost a ton of weight and allegedly his bat speed cratered, which is concering but the weight loss adds reason to that. 

He had that rib injury in May. I don't buy the "lost weight" story. Every player struggles to maintain weight during the year. What's the plan to keep weight on his next season? How'd he lose the weight before summer even started? It doesn't make sense. 

[mvp 78]

2 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

The bigger beef about Sox promotions has usually been about waiting too long. We don't promote anyone hitting .300 or with knock-out pitching numbers.

It's been a long time since they waited too long to promote someone. Mookie, Devers, Beni and Xander were all rushed through the system. Pedroia made it to BOS in his first year (then had his 41 wRC+). 

The last player to spend way too much time in AAA was probably Mo Vaughn. I had season tickets back then so wasn't complaining about the 216 games he spent in PAW.

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

It's been a long time since they waited too long to promote someone. Mookie, Devers, Beni and Xander were all rushed through the system. Pedroia made it to BOS in his first year (then had his 41 wRC+). 

The last player to spend way too much time in AAA was probably Mo Vaughn. I had season tickets back then so wasn't complaining about the 216 games he spent in PAW.

Well, many felt Mayer and Anthony should have been on the opening day roster, and Mayer was only promoted because of the Bregman injury and Anthony basically took the Devers slot, although he was called up before the trade.

They did seem to wait on pitcher promotions, but many of our pitchers that were doing great in the minors never amounted to squat in the bigs, so we don't look back and say we shoulda-coulda...

Bogey was "rushed" because of a need at 3B. Hell, he only played 10 games at 3B B$ the promotion. I don't think they planned on that early with him. Devers and Betts flew through the system, so clearly they don't wait on everyone. 

My point was, I hear more of this...

"Why don't they call up _____, now?"

more than this....

"They called this kid up, too early." (That is mostly said in hindsight.)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

On 11/14/2025 at 7:44 PM, harmony said:

FWIW FanGraphs projects Marcelo Mayer with 15 home runs next year in 532 plate appearances:

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/marcelo-mayer/29668/stats?position=3B

... and Roman Anthony with 18 home runs in 623 plate appearances:

https://www.fangraphs.com/players/roman-anthony/31812/stats?position=OF

 

So this offseason the Sox only need to add two more Mayers and two more Anthonys: Oscar Mayer, Meyer Lansky, Anthony Michael Hall as Farmer Ted from Sixteen Candles and Anthony Hopkins as the all-powerful omnipotent Odin.

[mvp 78]

18 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

My point was, I hear more of this...

"Why don't they call up _____, now?"

more than this....

"They called this kid up, too early." (That is mostly said in hindsight.)

"Why don't they call ____ up" is much different than "they waited too long to call ___ up" IMO. 

[drewski6]

55 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I get it you are not, but I think most fans are.

From my standpoint , when you initially said rushed, I was ready to disagree because Im a water seeks its own level believer, and I think a lot of time - people tend to not want to blame prospects who they like so they blame organizational decisions - and let the prospect themself off the hook

But then when you elaborated, and clarified that you werent necessarily saying that KC would have all these built in excuses going forward and you merely meant that he wasnt ready (as opposed to pointing to long term damage), I had no problem with you saying rushed.

He may have stunk because he was rushed last year, but if he still stinks 3 years from now, it wont be becasue he was rushed at one point in his career.  And if calling him up and giving him a chance a bit too early haunts him going forward because of like long term confidence issues, then the dude was too mentally soft to begin with (but I dont think thats going to be the case)

[Old Red]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

Well, many felt Mayer and Anthony should have been on the opening day roster, and Mayer was only promoted because of the Bregman injury and Anthony basically took the Devers slot, although he was called up before the trade.

They did seem to wait on pitcher promotions, but many of our pitchers that were doing great in the minors never amounted to squat in the bigs, so we don't look back and say we shoulda-coulda...

Bogey was "rushed" because of a need at 3B. Hell, he only played 10 games at 3B B$ the promotion. I don't think they planned on that early with him. Devers and Betts flew through the system, so clearly they don't wait on everyone. 

My point was, I hear more of this...

"Why don't they call up _____, now?"

more than this....

"They called this kid up, too early." (That is mostly said in hindsight.)

Did Mayer, and Anthony  being held back have anything to do with service time, and roster construction? There wasn’t any room in the OF, and Masa was shipped off in exile under the ruse he had to get his arm ready to play the OF, and even though he was good enough to DH in ST he didn’t even bat anywhere else.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

"Why don't they call ____ up" is much different than "they waited too long to call ___ up" IMO. 

Yes, that is the two near opposite things we hear sometimes about prospects and our GM's choices.

Is there a point I'm missing by this restatement?

[moonslav59]

12 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Did Mayer, and Anthony  being held back have anything to do with service time, and roster construction? There wasn’t any room in the OF, and Masa was shipped off in exile under the ruse he had to get his arm ready to play the OF, and even though he was good enough to DH in ST he didn’t even bat anywhere else.

Yes, I mentioned the crowded OF and service time for some reasons why Anthony was held back, when I feel he was "ready." Mayer could have been chosen to play 2B over Campbell, and he was "ready" in many senses of the word, but IMO, I think they felt he missed too much time at the end of 2024 and needed some more rehab work. He also had issues vs LHPs to work on, so maybe not "fully ready" and service time concerns.

I'm not sure how Masa fits into this issue. Playing Anthony at DH was a sign they messed up not trading Duran when his value peaked in 2024. Yes, "roster construction mistake."

 

[Old Red]

2 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

The bigger beef about Sox promotions has usually been about waiting too long. We don't promote anyone hitting .300 or with knock-out pitching numbers.

Campbell appeared to be a unique type of player. When he was over .900 after 20 games, most of us felt these guys guessed right on his promotion, even those who disagreed initially or thought the guy who ended the 2024 season on the IL, Mayer, deserved the shot first, based mostly on ST'ing numbers- something many poo-poo, all the time.

The guy fell off a cliff and sucked on D. We knew the D was not ready. His failure to adjust, or perhaps just having a slump changed everyone's mind quickly, and now many feel it just had to be "he was rushed" as the major reason. That very well could be the major reason, but it is likely there were several reasons, and one could easily be he just finally had a slump, after years of not having one.

Despite losing valuable developmental time due to injury I felt Mayer was further along development wise than KC was, so it wasn’t mostly, because of ST numbers. Mayer appeared healthy, and had played a lot more games with a lot more AB than KC had in the minors, and the same with Anthony.  Poo-poo ST numbers, but those numbers have decided opening day roster spots for young players through the years. I said last year that if Grissom would have had a good ST that he would have been the opening day 2B. NO ONE is saying being rushed was the major reason things for KC didn’t work out last year. Pressure of being a rookie, and living up to the contract could have contributed as well. Like I said earlier being sent back down to Woo was not that big a deal, but NOT being called back up was.

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, I mentioned the crowded OF and service time for some reasons why Anthony was held back, when I feel he was "ready." Mayer could have been chosen to play 2B over Campbell, and he was "ready" in many senses of the word, but IMO, I think they felt he missed too much time at the end of 2024 and needed some more rehab work. He also had issues vs LHPs to work on, so maybe not "fully ready" and service time concerns.

I'm not sure how Masa fits into this issue. Playing Anthony at DH was a sign they messed up not trading Duran when his value peaked in 2024. Yes, "roster construction mistake."

 

I was all for trading Duran after 2024, but was shot down on here.

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, that is the two near opposite things we hear sometimes about prospects and our GM's choices.

Is there a point I'm missing by this restatement?

You initially said the complaint was that the Sox waited too long to call prospects up, but revised it to say it's just sometimes people say may a certain player should be called up. It's just two completely different issues that's all. 🙃

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I was all for trading Duran after 2024, but was shot down on here.

I find that hard to believe. Either he or Abreu was considered trade bait last offseason because of Anthony's proximity. It was a conversation we had for months. 

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Despite losing valuable developmental time due to injury I felt Mayer was further along development wise than KC was, so it wasn’t mostly, because of ST numbers. Mayer appeared healthy, and had played a lot more games with a lot more AB than KC had in the minors, and the same with Anthony.  Poo-poo ST numbers, but those numbers have decided opening day roster spots for young players through the years. I said last year that if Grissom would have had a good ST that he would have been the opening day 2B. NO ONE is saying being rushed was the major reason things for KC didn’t work out last year. Pressure of being a rookie, and living up to the contract could have contributed as well. Like I said earlier being sent back down to Woo was not that big a deal, but NOT being called back up was.

Again, I wanted Mayer over KC, too. I'm not sure how many times I have to say that.

IMO, both may have been ML ready, and one was chosen for various reasons- and maybe not about higher "readiness."

When someone says he was rushed and gives no other reasons, even when in a debate about it being a major reason or the most important one, maybe I wrongly assume they think it's the most important reason. "Major" may not mean over 50% of the reason, either, if there are 3 or more reasons being suggested.

My point is nobody know the major reasons. We are all hypothesizing, and IMO, more so if we keep giving one reason over and over and not suggesting more easons were or could be involved.

[Old Red]

2 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I find that hard to believe. Either he or Abreu was considered trade bait last offseason because of Anthony's proximity. It was a conversation we had for months. 

Agree, but there was more than one staunch Duran supporters.

[moonslav59]

6 minutes ago, Old Red said:

I was all for trading Duran after 2024, but was shot down on here.

Okay.

Yes, many were against suggestions to trade Duran and others. I hear it almost every time I suggest a Duran trade.

[notin]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

I find that hard to believe. Either he or Abreu was considered trade bait last offseason because of Anthony's proximity. It was a conversation we had for months. 

Lots of people threw Duran trade suggestions around last off-season, largely because he was a good player with no real position and others were banging down the door, as you said..  

 

I liked how he matched up on BTV with Cristofer Sánchez. (DD probably didn’t.). I also knew any trade was unlikely…

[mvp 78]

Just now, moonslav59 said:

Okay.

Yes, many were against suggestions to trade Duran and others. I hear it almost every time I suggest a Duran trade.

Maybe? I don't really remember that because it's almost been a foregone conclusion that they've had to trade Abreu or Duran. 

[moonslav59]

9 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

You initially said the complaint was that the Sox waited too long to call prospects up, but revised it to say it's just sometimes people say may a certain player should be called up. It's just two completely different issues that's all. 🙃

There are differences in nuance, agreed, but saying call some one up implies they feel he is ML ready, right?