Red Sox 2025 Season Review/Offseason Preview Thread

[moonslav59]

2 minutes ago, notin said:

What we don’t know is how much of keeping him in Worcester was related to defense?

They might have worried that calling him up and seeing him slump might damage his confidence, but I've never been big on that type of thinking.

It seems they did not like what they saw of KC at 1B, or they know they are adding a 1Bman, this winter to a long term deal.

[Old Red]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

They might have worried that calling him up and seeing him slump might damage his confidence, but I've never been big on that type of thinking.

It seems they did not like what they saw of KC at 1B, or they know they are adding a 1Bman, this winter to a long term deal.

Campbell was handed a position on opening day last year even after a not so good ST to help justify that contract When Mayer looked more ready to go IMO. I don’t see KC being handed anything this year, and he’ll have to earn a spot on the roster. He’s still a player without a position.

[notin]

1 minute ago, Old Red said:

Campbell was handed a position on opening day last year even after a not so good ST to help justify that contract When Mayer looked more ready to go IMO. I don’t see KC being handed anything this year, and he’ll have to earn a spot on the roster. He’s still a player without a position.

Actually, there is a chance he is handed a position.  For all the “they gave him an MLB spot to justify the contract talk,” the Sox didnt give him that contract based on numbers they pull out of a hat.  He had an unprecedented run through the minors and impressed at every stop along the way.   The notion that he was just handed everything is ridiculous.  Yes, Campbell had a terrible spring training, but maybe (re: clearly) ST isn’t the tryout many think it is…

[Larry Cook]

29 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I thought Mayer and Anthony were better opening day choices, but KC had been tearing up the minors at every level. To me, they all looked ready- more ready than Narvaez, Early, Tolle and Dobbins- other rookies that ended up doing well.

This is not an easy choice to make, and I'm not sure we can easily say out organizational player development assessment protocol is flawed, because one guy slumped badly after his first 20 games or so. The reason all these guys didn't get an immediate show was the vest already in place. 

Yes, Mayer could have been chosen over KC at 2B, but I think they wanted him to play more games and play at SS, because Story was still a big question mark, if not just on his health questions. Anthony doesn't play 2B, and we can already see how his great start has forced the trade Duran issue to the forefront. Narvaez got his shot, in part because Wong got hurt. Dobbins, Tolle and Early were not really expected to play in the bigs. They made it by injury attrition.

I totally agree that the experience gained by these rookies, some just brief stints has enormous value to them and the club. There aren't as many looking to break into the bigs, next season, except maybe Perales or limited roles by Sandlin or Romero. (Romero will not be on the 40.)

We still have more to learn about KC, namely his position, and Jh Garcia. We need to see how Mayer can hit lefties, and how strong his arm looks after the wrist injury. We'd like to see if  Anthony's power can increase, and how he looks on defense over a full season. We'd like to see if 2025 was a fluke for Narvaez, Some of us want to see Tolle and Early get plenty of starts in the bigs, and maybe some want them on the opening day roster. It was good they got a taste of the bigs without any harm to their egos.

If Campbell is to be set up for LF, I'm not sure there is room for Jh Garcia, perhaps even if Duran is traded. I wonder if DH is the best spot for KC, but we have Masa and maybe Casas as the DH, the latter for sure if we sign Alonso or another 1Bman. (Alonso might also be a DH type.)

 

Hindsight is 20/20, but watching Campbell hit in spring training and I think most of us thought he was headed back to Worcester. 
 

and while I am a fan of challenging prospects with aggressive promotions, I believe the prospects have to show they are ready. 

[notin]

2 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Hindsight is 20/20, but watching Campbell hit in spring training and I think most of us thought he was headed back to Worcester. 
 

and while I am a fan of challenging prospects with aggressive promotions, I believe the prospects have to show they are ready. 

He did demolish 3 minor league levels the year before. Why is that less important than ST?  At a minimum, he showed he belonged above AAA…

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

Actually, there is a chance he is handed a position.  For all the “they gave him an MLB spot to justify the contract talk,” the Sox didnt give him that contract based on numbers they pull out of a hat.  He had an unprecedented run through the minors and impressed at every stop along the way.   The notion that he was just handed everything is ridiculous.  Yes, Campbell had a terrible spring training, but maybe (re: clearly) ST isn’t the tryout many think it is…

ST tryouts usually depend on the situation at hand, and especially when it comes to rookies trying to make the club in the first place. Lots of suspects have put up numbers in the Minor Leagues, but flamed out once they hit the Majors, so all that counts now is what he can do in the Majors. What he did after April last year is more important than what he did in April IMO. At this point in time I clearly don’t see KC being guaranteed anything this year, especially a spot on the opening day roster in 2026. 

[notin]

Just now, Old Red said:

ST tryouts usually depend on the situation at hand, and especially when it comes to rookies trying to make the club in the first place. Lots of suspects have put up numbers in the Minor Leagues, but flamed out once they hit the Majors, so all that counts now is what he can do in the Majors. What he did after April last year is more important than what he did in April IMO. At this point in time I clearly don’t see KC being guaranteed anything this year, especially a spot on the opening day roster in 2026. 

I am not so sure ST matters as much as many seem to think.  It’s one month worth of unrealistic games involving pitchers just trying to get loose without getting hurt.  Clearly, Campbell showed last year it didn’t matter to the extent many think.  And while critics cite he was only given the job to justify the contract (which also proves ST isn’t a tryout FYI), they ignore that there was a reason he got that contract in the first place…

[Old Red]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

I am not so sure ST matters as much as many seem to think.  It’s one month worth of unrealistic games involving pitchers just trying to get loose without getting hurt.  Clearly, Campbell showed last year it didn’t matter to the extent many think.  And while critics cite he was only given the job to justify the contract (which also proves ST isn’t a tryout FYI), they ignore that there was a reason he got that contract in the first place…

You seem to be hung up on what KC did in the Minor Leagues. He didn’t really tear up WOO last year after he went back down there . I’m hung up on what he’s done in a Red Sox uniform, which after a hot start isn’t much. That’s why I keep saying TBD. Suspect? Prospect? 

[notin]

3 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You seem to be hung up on what KC did in the Minor Leagues. He didn’t really tear up WOO last year after he went back down there . I’m hung up on what he’s done in a Red Sox uniform, which after a hot start isn’t much. That’s why I keep saying TBD. Suspect? Prospect? 

That depends on how he was handled when he went back.  He was sent down to work on his approach at the plate, at least in part.  Well if you make a hitter change things, good chance his BA suffers.  For example, say he was told to work on recognizing breaking pitches, and was told “di not swing at fastballs unless you have two strikes.”  Well, if something like that was going on, of course his numbers will suffer.

Did that happen?  No idea, but it’s pretty unlikely they just dumped him in Worcester and said “work it out yourself, kid”…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

9 minutes ago, notin said:

That depends on how he was handled when he went back.  He was sent down to work on his approach at the plate, at least in part.  Well if you make a hitter change things, good chance his BA suffers.  For example, say he was told to work on recognizing breaking pitches, and was told “di not swing at fastballs unless you have two strikes.”  Well, if something like that was going on, of course his numbers will suffer.

Did that happen?  No idea, but it’s pretty unlikely they just dumped him in Worcester and said “work it out yourself, kid”…

Worcester gets a lot of bad weather, so they sent him back hoping for an electrical storm strong enough for Igor to harness some bolts of energy for the Assistant VP mad scientists to use like the year before. 

That didn't happen, but Breslow recently said Campbell has already had a monstrous offseason working out -- so don't be surprised if he snaps off his chains and goes on a rampage in Florida.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

 I don’t see KC being handed anything this year, and he’ll have to earn a spot on the roster. He’s still a player without a position.

Agreed. 99% he starts in AAA, unless we intentionally trade 1-2 OF'ers to make room for him to have a shot at beating out Garcia for the LF slot. (Duran & Abreu traded & Anthony in RF or Duran/Abreu + Rafaela traded w Anthony/Duran in CF.)

[moonslav59]

37 minutes ago, Old Red said:

You seem to be hung up on what KC did in the Minor Leagues. 

The minors was a much larger sample size than the ST'ing one you cite.

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Old Red said:

Campbell was handed a position on opening day last year even after a not so good ST to help justify that contract When Mayer looked more ready to go IMO. 

Mayer had missed the end of the '24 season and a lot of time before that. It was reasonable to want to give him some time to find a groove.

BTW, I was for Mayer over KC, too, back on day one, but it wasn't a clear choice, to me. I think they saw Mayer as Story's primary back-up and wanted to see how Trevor looked. That may have been part of the discussion.

[moonslav59]

59 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Hindsight is 20/20, but watching Campbell hit in spring training and I think most of us thought he was headed back to Worcester. 

I was one of those "most of us."

How many of us though, "Man was I wrong," after 20 games?

Now, we look back and say, "See, we were right!"

Sorry, I kinda think it rings hollow, now. In hindsight, okay. At the time, it was not a no-brainer. Plus, holding back on promoting Mayer and Anthony had two issues attached:

1. OF and SS were taken. (Yes, Mayer could play 2B, but we wanted him to find his groove at SS.)

2. The added year of control by waiting. (KC was already signed.)

[moonslav59]

37 minutes ago, notin said:

That depends on how he was handled when he went back.  He was sent down to work on his approach at the plate, at least in part.  Well if you make a hitter change things, good chance his BA suffers.  For example, say he was told to work on recognizing breaking pitches, and was told “di not swing at fastballs unless you have two strikes.”  Well, if something like that was going on, of course his numbers will suffer.

Did that happen?  No idea, but it’s pretty unlikely they just dumped him in Worcester and said “work it out yourself, kid”…

Great point. He was also shuffled around on positions.... again.

[moonslav59]

21 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Worcester gets a lot of bad weather, so they sent him back hoping for an electrical storm strong enough for Igor to harness some bolts of energy for the Assistant VP mad scientists to use like the year before. 

That didn't happen, but Breslow recently said Campbell has already had a monstrous offseason working out -- so don't be surprised if he snaps off his chains and goes on a rampage in Florida.

I get the feeling that even a monster ST'ing, which was used against him last spring, will not be enough to convince some to "hand the suspect" a FT job on the opening day MLB club.

[moonslav59]

To those who think we have to re-examine our prospect MLB readiness evaluations, how many of these call-ups worked vs not worked?

Campbell

Narvaez

Dobbins

Mayer

Anthony

Early

Tolle

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

6 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I get the feeling that even a monster ST'ing, which was used against him last spring, will not be enough to convince some to "hand the suspect" a FT job on the opening day MLB club.

I was just thinking a roster spot. If -- as some speculate -- the Sox trade two outfielders, there could be a role for a bounceback prospect...

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I was just thinking a roster spot. If -- as some speculate -- the Sox trade two outfielders, there could be a role for a bounceback prospect...

If we trade 2 OF'ers, I'm assuming we get some very nice talent back to fill a couple positions that include 1B, 2B, 3B and maybe DH. I'd hope will fill another one with a big bat like Alonso or Schwarber with Suarez, Polanco, KMarte or maybe Bichette/Bregman, and then I'd be okay with giving Campbell a good chance to win the LF slot against Garcia.

[Larry Cook]

1 hour ago, notin said:

He did demolish 3 minor league levels the year before. Why is that less important than ST?  At a minimum, he showed he belonged above AAA…

Because the leap from triple A to the major leagues is the absolute most steep leap in baseball 

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Because the leap from triple A to the major leagues is the absolute most steep leap in baseball 

True, but after what KC did at all levels, promoting him made sense. Had we never called him up, we'd be talking "why not?"

[Randy Red Sox]

24 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

If we trade 2 OF'ers, I'm assuming we get some very nice talent back to fill a couple positions that include 1B, 2B, 3B and maybe DH. I'd hope will fill another one with a big bat like Alonso or Schwarber with Suarez, Polanco, KMarte or maybe Bichette/Bregman, and then I'd be okay with giving Campbell a good chance to win the LF slot against Garcia.

i can easily see Campbell in the lineup next season over JH approving the $$ needed for a Schwarber or Alonso FA signing. The Devers $$ is burning a hole oil JH's pockets.

[moonslav59]

4 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

i can easily see Campbell in the lineup next season over JH approving the $$ needed for a Schwarber or Alonso FA signing. The Devers $$ is burning a hole oil JH's pockets.

I think we will make one major signing, but if it's just Bregman and little else, I'd be pissed.

I'm okay with Alonso or Schwarber plus giving Mayer & Anthony FT positions and Campbell the inside opportunity to win a FT slot.

 

[notin]

30 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Because the leap from triple A to the major leagues is the absolute most steep leap in baseball 

But the notion that jobs are won or lost in ST was at least partly shattered by Campbell…

[Old Red]

16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

True, but after what KC did at all levels, promoting him made sense. Had we never called him up, we'd be talking "why not?"

The Red Sox had just gone through 11 2B the year before, and didn’t see any different solutions to the problem, so they gave KC a chance HOPING he was ready, and to justify the contract they were giving him. If they thought he was ready they were wrong, and he was not. Mayer, and Anthony were both called up later on, and were not rushed. Campbell was, and it showed. 

[notin]

16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I think we will make one major signing, but if it's just Bregman and little else, I'd be pissed.

I'm okay with Alonso or Schwarber plus giving Mayer & Anthony FT positions and Campbell the inside opportunity to win a FT slot.

 

If the Sox make one major signing, it will probably be Alonso.  He checks several boxes and contracts  for 1b are often less than for other positions.   Sounds like a Perfect Fit for Henry…
 

 

[Old Red]

Just now, notin said:

But the notion that jobs are won or lost in ST was at least partly shattered by Campbell…

As was he was not ready for prime time. Like I posted earlier the Red Sox HOPED, and took at chance. Every situation is different, and there have been many prospects through the years that have won a job on the opening day roster, because what they did in ST, or didn’t win a job on what they didn’t do in ST. Using KC as an example is just 1 time.

[notin]

2 minutes ago, Old Red said:

The Red Sox had just gone through 11 2B the year before, and didn’t see any different solutions to the problem, so they gave KC a chance HOPING he was ready, and to justify the contract they were giving him. If they thought he was ready they were wrong, and he was not. Mayer, and Anthony were both called up later on, and were not rushed. Campbell was, and it showed. 

Players get demoted and promoted all the time.  This season, Campbell might outhit Anthony.  It’s common for fans to only look at small samples they are familiar with and assume that is reality.  I remember back when the Sox traded for Eric Gagne, fans were upset that the Sox had sent the “wrong pitcher” in Kason Gabbard and should have dealt away Jon Lester instead…

[Randy Red Sox]

27 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I think we will make one major signing, but if it's just Bregman and little else, I'd be pissed.

I'm okay with Alonso or Schwarber plus giving Mayer & Anthony FT positions and Campbell the inside opportunity to win a FT slot.

 

the "major" signing you mention likely won't even be Bregman IMO.  I think he will get a great offer by the Tigers and I'd be willing to bet Schwarber re-ups in Philly.  With Casas due back next year I dont see JH  approving an Alonso signing. We may in fact simply resign Lowe on a much more reasonable amount on a 1 yr deal.

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, Old Red said:

The Red Sox had just gone through 11 2B the year before, and didn’t see any different solutions to the problem, so they gave KC a chance HOPING he was ready, and to justify the contract they were giving him. If they thought he was ready they were wrong, and he was not. Mayer, and Anthony were both called up later on, and were not rushed. Campbell was, and it showed. 

I don't see things in black and white so much. There were several reasons to give KC a shot, including the point about trying 11 secondbasemen the year before.

I did prefer giving Mayer the first shot, but there were reasons to think he needed some rehab time, as well as wanting to keep him getting SS reps, until we got a clearer idea on Story and his health at SS.

In hindsight, we can argue "KC was not ready and it showed," but that is an opinion. It could have just been a long slump that he was about to snap out of. We'll never know. I have no issue with the opinion we were wrong or that he was "rushed," but it's not a certainty.

The big question, now is are we ready to hand him another FT slot or even an inside track to one?