Red Sox (Buehler) vs Angels (Kochanowicz): 6/23/25, 9:38pm

[mvp 78]

13 minutes ago, dannycater said:

and it's a lineup of kids

To me, the problem isn't that it's a lineup of kids. If they just went that route and put the kids in the spots they were supposed to be and ran with it, the team would be more enjoyable. However, over and over again, they just half ass it. Mayer will most likely go to 2b instead of SS. Anthony won't be designated a fulltime OF spot. Rafaela should just be the CFer 150 games a year. Force Abreu to face LHP and see if he gets better rather than in a parttime role. Give Fitts and Harrison starting rotation spots for the rest of the season. I don't know how they serve both masters of "remain in contention" and "play the kids." 

I think they should actively be trying to deal: Chapman, Story, Buehler, Masa, Bernardino, Wilson, Romy, Toro, Hamilton, Duran, Wong, Refsnyder. These guys aren't going to be part of the next great Red Sox team. I think they hold onto Bregman as the "glue guy" and an additional bench coach for Cora. Maybe they work on a short term extension for him at big $$$. 

 

 

[dannycater]

MVP, good thoughts and keep up the fandom.

[Maxbialystock]

10 hours ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

How bad a hitter do you have to be to bat behind Wong?

It's the pitching.  Last night the Sox staff gave up 9 earned runs.    The Angels only had 6 hits, but were helped by 11 BB's and 2 HBP's by Sox pitchers.  Buehler gave up 5 ER's and Whitlock 4.    

The signature inning was the 1st when the Sox hitters provided Buehler with 3 runs, after which he gave back 5 to the Angels.  

After the Sox tied it in the 6th at 5-5, Whitlock gave up 4 runs to finish off the Sox.  

All this talk about baserunning and errors masks the real problem, pitching.  

Last night, Wong and Hamilton, batting 8th and 9th, went 2 for 7 with 1 rbi.  

 

 

[cp176]

17 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

To me, the problem isn't that it's a lineup of kids. If they just went that route and put the kids in the spots they were supposed to be and ran with it, the team would be more enjoyable. However, over and over again, they just half ass it. Mayer will most likely go to 2b instead of SS. Anthony won't be designated a fulltime OF spot. Rafaela should just be the CFer 150 games a year. Force Abreu to face LHP and see if he gets better rather than in a parttime role. Give Fitts and Harrison starting rotation spots for the rest of the season. I don't know how they serve both masters of "remain in contention" and "play the kids." 

I think they should actively be trying to deal: Chapman, Story, Buehler, Masa, Bernardino, Wilson, Romy, Toro, Hamilton, Duran, Wong, Refsnyder. These guys aren't going to be part of the next great Red Sox team. I think they hold onto Bregman as the "glue guy" and an additional bench coach for Cora. Maybe they work on a short term extension for him at big $$$. 

 

 

Your post pretty much sums up my feelings.  I’ve been a fan since 1955, so I’m pretty sure that I’ll be one forever.  I also would far prefer to watch the kids learn on the job understanding that there will be struggles.  I hate watching the same poor performances over and over.  The mistakes this team makes running the bases coupled with all of the errors makes me sick.  It’s really poor baseball.   Watching Beuhler last was extremely painful.  I don’t care how over worked the bullpen might have been,personally I would have got him out of the game.  The running errors by both Duran and Toro did it for me last night .  I couldn’t take anymore.  I’m ready for something new and I think that it has to start at the top.  Everyone keeps talking about acquiring some decent free agents.  Are there any decent ones out there who would even want to come to Boston without being grossly overpaid?  Who’s signing up to join this crap show?

[Bellhorn04]

1 hour ago, dgalehouse said:

Fans should try to stay on at least somewhat of an even keel. Don't go nuts over every game. The Sox have their stopper, Crochet, going tonight. Kid Kaopectate. Then we can once again check the standings, schedules and scoreboard watch. 

Denny, the Sox have been playing .500 ball for 4 seasons now.  I don't think it's a case of complaining for no reason.

[Duran Is The Man]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

To me, the problem isn't that it's a lineup of kids. If they just went that route and put the kids in the spots they were supposed to be and ran with it, the team would be more enjoyable. However, over and over again, they just half ass it. Mayer will most likely go to 2b instead of SS. Anthony won't be designated a fulltime OF spot. Rafaela should just be the CFer 150 games a year. Force Abreu to face LHP and see if he gets better rather than in a parttime role. Give Fitts and Harrison starting rotation spots for the rest of the season. I don't know how they serve both masters of "remain in contention" and "play the kids." 

I think they should actively be trying to deal: Chapman, Story, Buehler, Masa, Bernardino, Wilson, Romy, Toro, Hamilton, Duran, Wong, Refsnyder. These guys aren't going to be part of the next great Red Sox team. I think they hold onto Bregman as the "glue guy" and an additional bench coach for Cora. Maybe they work on a short term extension for him at big $$$. 

 

 

i think we should keep Chapman and i'd like to keep Duran. i'm ok with trading him for a good return but the idiots in the Sox FO will deal him for nothing.

[dgalehouse]

9 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Denny, the Sox have been playing .500 ball for 4 seasons now.  I don't think it's a case of complaining for no reason.

I know. The thing is that they took five of six with the Yankees. Everyone was upbeat. Now, a so-so west coast trip has everyone despairing. There will be some high spots and low spots, but I think this team is better than it was the last four years.  A little more productivity from the highly touted rookies would help a lot. It wouldn't take a whole lot to make the playoffs. Anyway, have fun with it all. No reason for all the angst. The second half should be interesting. Enjoy the ride. 

[mvp 78]

FA: 

SP- Cease, King, Framber

RP - Rogers, Williams

Others - Tucker, Schwarber, Ozuna, Hoskins, Alonso

I think I'm talking myself into one of the five bats I listed. 😐

[mvp 78]

3 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

i think we should keep Chapman and i'd like to keep Duran. i'm ok with trading him for a good return but the idiots in the Sox FO will deal him for nothing.

I think they did a good job with the Verdugo, Yorke and Priester trades. The Sale trade just left a sour taste in everyone's mouth. I'll reevaluate the Devers trade later on in the season. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, Maxbialystock said:

It's the pitching. 

All this talk about baserunning and errors masks the real problem, pitching.  

As much as you'd like to separate defense from pitching, they are directly connected. Both are on the side trying to prevent the opposition from scoring.

Unless you have a pitching staff full of Nolan Ryans striking everybody out, the fielders have to touch the ball a lot. 

Teams that build around pitching are smart enough to put just as much emphasis on having a tight D.

This year in Boston will be remembered as the season the Red Sox traded Devers, but that scandal is what masks what the media should really address: in 2025 the Sox lead the majors in errors -- without Raffy playing a single inning on defense.

Sox fans often ask how Tampa always wins. Good pitching, good manager, but look at that batting order... Let's get right to it: Boston has 69 Es. Tampa has 37.

 

 

[drewski6]

5 hours ago, Bellhorn04 said:

We tried the $10 million plays with guys like Garrett Richards and Corey Kluber and they were losers too.

I'm starting to think that about 95% of pitchers suck now, when you factor in durability LOL.  

yup, build your team through your bats first

[Duran Is The Man]

3 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

As much as you'd like to separate defense from pitching, they are directly connected. Both are on the side trying to prevent the opposition from scoring.

Unless you have a pitching staff full of Nolan Ryans striking everybody out, the fielders have to touch the ball a lot. 

Teams that build around pitching are smart enough to put just as much emphasis on having a tight D.

This year in Boston will be remembered as the season the Red Sox traded Devers, but that scandal is what masks what the media should really address: in 2025 the Sox lead the majors in errors -- without Raffy playing a single inning on defense.

Sox fans often ask how Tampa always wins. Good pitching, good manager, but look at that batting order... Let's get right to it: Boston has 69 Es. Tampa has 37.

 

 

some people think errors don't matter, but after looking at which teams have committed the most errors and those that haven't; there is no denying there appears to be a correlation between wins/losses and errors. the bottom 7 teams in errors beginning with the worst: Red Sox, Rockies, White Sox, Guardians, Angels, A's, & Orioles. nice company.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

some people think errors don't matter, but after looking at which teams have committed the most errors and those that haven't; there is no denying there appears to be a correlation between wins/losses and errors. the bottom 7 teams in errors beginning with the worst: Red Sox, Rockies, White Sox, Guardians, Angels, A's, & Orioles. nice company.

Fans who use stats to make a point often miss that which cannot be calculated.

Not every batter who reaches base on an error or advances on an error scores. But every extra out a defense gives up puts more stress on their pitchers.

And higher pitch counts always either expedite a pitching change or expedite the chances a more tired pitcher will make a mistake and get clobbered for it... which will eventually tax more arms in relief.

Yes, Es can kill a pitching staff -- and that includes miscues by guys on the mound like Bernardino, who has more errors in 15 less games than Chase Meidroth.

[notin]

9 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

It's the pitching.  Last night the Sox staff gave up 9 earned runs.    The Angels only had 6 hits, but were helped by 11 BB's and 2 HBP's by Sox pitchers.  Buehler gave up 5 ER's and Whitlock 4.    

The signature inning was the 1st when the Sox hitters provided Buehler with 3 runs, after which he gave back 5 to the Angels.  

After the Sox tied it in the 6th at 5-5, Whitlock gave up 4 runs to finish off the Sox.  

All this talk about baserunning and errors masks the real problem, pitching.  

Last night, Wong and Hamilton, batting 8th and 9th, went 2 for 7 with 1 rbi.  

 

 

Last night the Sox scored 5 runs.  The Angels scored 4 on bases loaded walks and HBPs…

[notin]

4 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

some people think errors don't matter, but after looking at which teams have committed the most errors and those that haven't; there is no denying there appears to be a correlation between wins/losses and errors. the bottom 7 teams in errors beginning with the worst: Red Sox, Rockies, White Sox, Guardians, Angels, A's, & Orioles. nice company.

So clearly moving Devers off third was the right move…

[notin]

4 hours ago, Duran Is The Man said:

some people think errors don't matter, but after looking at which teams have committed the most errors and those that haven't; there is no denying there appears to be a correlation between wins/losses and errors. the bottom 7 teams in errors beginning with the worst: Red Sox, Rockies, White Sox, Guardians, Angels, A's, & Orioles. nice company.

And for the record NOBODY has said errors don’t matter.  Whats been said is errors (and fielding percentage) are a bad way to evaluate a player’s defensive skills.   That’s not even remotely the same…

[moonslav59]

9 hours ago, mvp 78 said:

To me, the problem isn't that it's a lineup of kids. If they just went that route and put the kids in the spots they were supposed to be and ran with it, the team would be more enjoyable. However, over and over again, they just half ass it. Mayer will most likely go to 2b instead of SS. Anthony won't be designated a fulltime OF spot. Rafaela should just be the CFer 150 games a year. Force Abreu to face LHP and see if he gets better rather than in a parttime role. Give Fitts and Harrison starting rotation spots for the rest of the season. I don't know how they serve both masters of "remain in contention" and "play the kids." 

I think they should actively be trying to deal: Chapman, Story, Buehler, Masa, Bernardino, Wilson, Romy, Toro, Hamilton, Duran, Wong, Refsnyder. These guys aren't going to be part of the next great Red Sox team. I think they hold onto Bregman as the "glue guy" and an additional bench coach for Cora. Maybe they work on a short term extension for him at big $$$. 

I can see trying to get Abreu to a FT, non platoon role, but Ref has to bat somewhere.

I've suggested a DH platoon between Ref & Duran, with Duran in LF vs RHPs. Romy could DH vs lefties, someday, too. Right now, he's needed at 1B.

I can see being sellers, and if I was sure, we'd go for it, starting next winter, I might even support the idea, but I trust nothing, these days.

[Duran Is The Man]

3 hours ago, notin said:

So clearly moving Devers off third was the right move…

i wanted him off third years ago.

[Duran Is The Man]

3 hours ago, notin said:

And for the record NOBODY has said errors don’t matter.  Whats been said is errors (and fielding percentage) are a bad way to evaluate a player’s defensive skills.   That’s not even remotely the same…

i totally get that. you've pointed out many examples that i agree with. i was just stating there appears to be a real correlation between errors and wins/losses. when you look at the standings and who leads and who doesn't and who has the most errors and who doesn't.