Angels (Kikuchi) vs Red Sox (Bello): 6/3/25, 7:10pm

[iortiz]

If I’m Cora I make sure everybody stay in the stadium and practice fundamentals to dead! 
 

 

[illinoisredsox]

11 minutes ago, iortiz said:

171 SO with RISP and 51 errors thus far Sox leading all baseball. Shocking!!!!

 

… but not surprised. 
 

how do you give Cora a vote of confidence with those stats man? Explain me like a 10 yo!!!

A vote of confidence is generally not a good thing when it comes to managing/coaching professional sports.

[illinoisredsox]

4 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

did Cora think Chapman's arm was going to fall off after all of 13 pitches??

Would it have really made much difference? The offense still needs to move a guy off second at some point.

[Duran Is The Man]

you have to wonder that there is truly something fundamentally wrong with this organization when they lead the league in errors. every. f***ing. year. it's a sad day when your players can't even perform the most basic aspects of the game.

[Duran Is The Man]

4 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

Would it have really made much difference? The offense still needs to move a guy off second at some point.

 i'd take Chapman over Zack Kelly all day every day. but yeah, they still have to score.

[Maxbialystock]

6 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

Would it have really made much difference? The offense still needs to move a guy off second at some point.

Amen.  Moreover, it is not normal to bring him back to pitch the 10th with the ghostrunner on 2b.  

[illinoisredsox]

4 minutes ago, iortiz said:

If I’m Cora I make sure everybody stay in the stadium and practice fundamentals to dead! 
 

 

It’s not that easy a fix; these players have no idea of what fundamentals are, and it’s been going on for years.  That points to an organizational problem in the minors and no emphasis on teaching them.

It really goes back to amateur ball, but all the players come out of that, so every team has that hurdle to overcome.

About 15 years ago, I was asked to coach a group of 13-14 year old all-stars.  There was one practice I was trying to work on basic run down strategy (no more than 2 throws, run the runner back to the previous base, etc.).  After 5 minutes I was told that these concepts were too hard for them to understand.  Same thing with basic cutoff plays and backing up plays.  This was stuff we worked nearly 60 years ago when I was 9 in Little League and we had no trouble getting them, yet these 14 yos couldn’t grasp them.

[Maxbialystock]

4 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

you have to wonder that there is truly something fundamentally wrong with this organization when they lead the league in errors. every. f***ing. year. it's a sad day when your players can't even perform the most basic aspects of the game.

One more time, just for you.  The Sox fielding percentage is 98%.  The best fielding percentage in MLB is 99%.  That 1% difference is almost insignificant.  

To assess a defense, you have to look at the individual players' DWAR's.  Right now Navaez has the highest DWAR among MLB catchers, as do Rafaela in CF and Abreu in RF.  Bregman was ranked 3d in DWAR at 3b, and so far Mayer is +0.1 in 8 games.   So that's half the Sox defense that's actually pretty competent.  Plus I like Story's steadiness (DWAR 0.0) at SS.  Even Duran (DWAR -0.1) is not the disaster in LF that Campbell is at 2b and all of our firstbasemen have been.  

The Sox defense did not cost a run tonight.  The only unearned run was in the 10th inning--the ghostrunner at 2b scored.  

[iortiz]

33 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

Would it have really made much difference? The offense still needs to move a guy off second at some point.

Yeah, but I don’t even give him a vote of confidence. 

[iortiz]

8 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

One more time, just for you.  The Sox fielding percentage is 98%.  The best fielding percentage in MLB is 99%.  That 1% difference is almost insignificant.  

To assess a defense, you have to look at the individual players' DWAR's.  Right now Navaez has the highest DWAR among MLB catchers, as do Rafaela in CF and Abreu in RF.  Bregman was ranked 3d in DWAR at 3b, and so far Mayer is +0.1 in 8 games.   So that's half the Sox defense that's actually pretty competent.  Plus I like Story's steadiness (DWAR 0.0) at SS.  Even Duran (DWAR -0.1) is not the disaster in LF that Campbell is at 2b and all of our firstbasemen have been.  

The Sox defense did not cost a run tonight.  The only unearned run was in the 10th inning--the ghostrunner at 2b scored.  

Yet 51 error and leading baseball in this category speaks volumes how this team is run, managed and coached. There’s no way to sugar coat it. 

[Maxbialystock]

19 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

It’s not that easy a fix; these players have no idea of what fundamentals are, and it’s been going on for years.  That points to an organizational problem in the minors and no emphasis on teaching them.

It really goes back to amateur ball, but all the players come out of that, so every team has that hurdle to overcome.

About 15 years ago, I was asked to coach a group of 13-14 year old all-stars.  There was one practice I was trying to work on basic run down strategy (no more than 2 throws, run the runner back to the previous base, etc.).  After 5 minutes I was told that these concepts were too hard for them to understand.  Same thing with basic cutoff plays and backing up plays.  This was stuff we worked nearly 60 years ago when I was 9 in Little League and we had no trouble getting them, yet these 14 yos couldn’t grasp them.

I'm sure all you wrote is true, but I think mastering all kinds of fundamentals is not easy--and they can get harder in big/close games.  Rafaela has a terrific arm which we've all seen in action.  But tonight he launched a rocket headed for the moon.  Gonzalez did not have a tough throw to the pitcher running to 1b, but he too threw way too high.  

There are just two crucial fundamentals in MLB--pitching and hitting.  If you stink at those two, the other fundamentals are of little use in winning games.   I thought our pitching was pretty good tonight, but our hitting definitely lagged.  It turns out the Sox lead MLB--by a wide margin--in K's with RISP.  

The Sox had 3 errors tonight and none of them led to an unearned run.  

[vegasbob]

1 hour ago, Tedballgame said:

Bringing in Kelly was equivalent to waving a white flag.

Forget Kelly, he only "allowed" the 1 run.

Some here keep saying it is the pitching.  IT IS NOT---It is the failure to hit or generate productive outs,  put the pelota in play.  

These guys are truly a mess.     The odds to turn this season around get worse with each loss.  99 to go and slip sliding away.

Granted one thing---This is not the roster nor lineup Breslow nor Cora expected to be playing games with.

[vegasbob]

Regarding hitting,  if the Red Sox organizational hitting strategy is launch angle and swing hard at anything close, then you have the team we see daily.    It is a flawed concept after the 2nd time through the lineup for sure. 

Losing 17 one run games is proof and leading the MLB in K's with RISP is proof.    

But playing  3 rookies and a couple AAAA'ers doesn't help much either.       Splendid Splinter is right--these children may have trouble reaching 78-84.    They actually would have to win at a higher rate than their current record to do so.  

[vegasbob]

39 minutes ago, illinoisredsox said:

It’s not that easy a fix; these players have no idea of what fundamentals are, and it’s been going on for years.  That points to an organizational problem in the minors and no emphasis on teaching them.

It really goes back to amateur ball, but all the players come out of that, so every team has that hurdle to overcome.

About 15 years ago, I was asked to coach a group of 13-14 year old all-stars.  There was one practice I was trying to work on basic run down strategy (no more than 2 throws, run the runner back to the previous base, etc.).  After 5 minutes I was told that these concepts were too hard for them to understand.  Same thing with basic cutoff plays and backing up plays.  This was stuff we worked nearly 60 years ago when I was 9 in Little League and we had no trouble getting them, yet these 14 yos couldn’t grasp them.

Good example, but that overall attitude that everything is just too  difficult for  day care kids to grasp is showing up in many professions.

[Maxbialystock]

45 minutes ago, iortiz said:

If I’m Cora I make sure everybody stay in the stadium and practice fundamentals to dead! 
 

 

And that would be really stupid.  Best thing after a game like this is to put it behind you.  Save the fundamentals for the next day's pregame practices which are endless already.  

Also, as I said, the two fundamentals that are more important than all the others are hitting and pitching.  Our pitching was pretty good and gave up just 3 earned runs in 10 innings.  Our hitting stunk.  The Sox lead MLB in K's with RISP by a pretty big margin.  Now that's a fundamental worth working on.  

 

[FredLynn]

26 minutes ago, Maxbialystock said:

One more time, just for you.  The Sox fielding percentage is 98%.  The best fielding percentage in MLB is 99%.  That 1% difference is almost insignificant.  

To assess a defense, you have to look at the individual players' DWAR's.  Right now Navaez has the highest DWAR among MLB catchers, as do Rafaela in CF and Abreu in RF.  Bregman was ranked 3d in DWAR at 3b, and so far Mayer is +0.1 in 8 games.   So that's half the Sox defense that's actually pretty competent.  Plus I like Story's steadiness (DWAR 0.0) at SS.  Even Duran (DWAR -0.1) is not the disaster in LF that Campbell is at 2b and all of our firstbasemen have been.  

The Sox defense did not cost a run tonight.  The only unearned run was in the 10th inning--the ghostrunner at 2b scored.  

You’ve got to be kidding me. Of course the extra 1% is important. It’s giving the other guys extra outs and costing the bums games. You can’t do that at the professional level. They LEAD THE LEAGUE in errors! They have been one of the worst defensive teams in the game for YEARS. They will NEVER be contenders for a ring if they keep playing little league ball like they did tonight.

[Maxbialystock]

5 minutes ago, vegasbob said:

Regarding hitting,  if the Red Sox organizational hitting strategy is launch angle and swing hard at anything close, then you have the team we see daily.    It is a flawed concept after the 2nd time through the lineup for sure. 

Losing 17 one run games is proof and leading the MLB in K's with RISP is proof.    

But playing  3 rookies and a couple AAAA'ers doesn't help much either.       Splendid Splinter is right--these children may have trouble reaching 78-84.    They actually would have to win at a higher rate than their current record to do so.  

I have no idea what the Sox hitting strategy is, but I hope it's not the one you describe.  I agree it's stupid.  

As for the 17 one run game losses, a big part of that are all those K's with RISP, which we saw again tonight.  The Sox also rank 3d in MLB in total K's, regardless of RISP.  

I also think Bregman's absence has hurt.  Since his last game, a 19-5 win on May 23, the Sox are 3-8 and have averaged 27/11 = 2.45 runs per game.  

Another factor is one you cited--some of the real talent is young and/or inexperienced and others are just not that talented.  

[Maxbialystock]

12 minutes ago, FredLynn said:

You’ve got to be kidding me. Of course the extra 1% is important. It’s giving the other guys extra outs and costing the bums games. You can’t do that at the professional level. They LEAD THE LEAGUE in errors! They have been one of the worst defensive teams in the game for YEARS. They will NEVER be contenders for a ring if they keep playing little league ball like they did tonight.

Good point on the extra outs--one that moonslav always makes.  However, I do not agree this Sox team is one of the worst defensive teams in MLB.   That's why I cited the DWAR's of Bregman, Narvaez, Abreu, and Rafaela.  As I said, half the defense has been pretty good (and that now includes Mayer at 3b).   

Also, don't forget that a double play saves pitchers big time, and the Sox are ranked 4th in MLB in double plays per game.  Tonight the Angels turned 3 double plays, which went a long way to make up their pitchers issuing 7 walks.  

Finally, I must insist that far and away the biggest difference makers in games and for teams are hitting and pitching.  Not defense.  Not bonehead plays.  Not baserunning.  Not bad calls by the third base coach.  Not bad calls by the homeplate umpire.  

[illinoisredsox]

9 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

The Sox had 3 errors tonight and none of them led to an unearned run.  

Technically true, but in a sense they did.

3rd inning:  Angels were on 1st and second.  If Rafaela’s throw is somewhere in the neighborhood of the cutoff man, the batter doesn’t take second, and maybe the guy who started on first also stays put.  I think the runner who was on second scores anyway. Now I know you can’t assume the inning plays out the same way, but if it does, the Red Sox are not playing the infield in, the little bleeder that scored the 2nd and 3rd runs is at least a force play if not a DP and the one or two fly balls end the inning with 1 or possibly 2 runs scoring.

10th inning:  If the bunt is turned into an out, the Angels have a man on 3rd.  Again, assuming the inning plays out the way it did, Trout walks and the DP ends the inning with no runs scoring.

So no, technically the errors didn’t lead to unearned runs (although I would argue the 3rd Angel run could have been unearned) but 2 runs may have been avoided without the errors.

 

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

1 hour ago, Maxbialystock said:

Good point on the extra outs--one that moonslav always makes.  However, I do not agree this Sox team is one of the worst defensive teams in MLB.   That's why I cited the DWAR's of Bregman, Narvaez, Abreu, and Rafaela.  As I said, half the defense has been pretty good (and that now includes Mayer at 3b).   

Also, don't forget that a double play saves pitchers big time, and the Sox are ranked 4th in MLB in double plays per game.  Tonight the Angels turned 3 double plays, which went a long way to make up their pitchers issuing 7 walks.  

Finally, I must insist that far and away the biggest difference makers in games and for teams are hitting and pitching.  Not defense.  Not bonehead plays.  Not baserunning.  Not bad calls by the third base coach.  Not bad calls by the homeplate umpire.  

IMHO, pitching and defense go hand in hand. It is true that errors don't always account for runs, but they certainly account for elevated pitch counts.

As for hitting the Sox offense has been beyond terrible executing productive outs and timely hits.

To justify the number of strike outs the Sox have accumulated they'd have to have hit a lot more home runs than they currently have.

In conclusion this current Sox team is a dumpster fire.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

7 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

IMHO, pitching and defense go hand in hand. It is true that errors don't always account for runs, but they certainly account for elevated pitch counts.

As for hitting the Sox offense has been beyond terrible executing productive outs and timely hits.

To justify the number of strike outs the Sox have accumulated they'd have to have hit a lot more home runs than they currently have.

In conclusion this current Sox team is a dumpster fire.

What percentage of this is Cora's fault I don't know, but I do know this team needs a different manager. Cora doesn't believe in this franchise and he and Brez don't see eye to eye. It was a mistake re-signing Cora in the first place and this has to be corrected the sooner the better.

[TedYazPapiMookie]

The Red Sox are a team in transition.  In 2018 the team was filled with stars and the youngster Devers sucked just like many of the youngsters right now.  The key to that team was the veterans.  Bregman and Devers aren't enough veterans to make the team competitive on offense.  Now that Bregman is out this team falls far short on offense.  The chance of a playoff spot is non-existent.  In fact, after 2 of 6 months to the season the performance is the worst since 2020.

What should the front office do?  The following.

1 - Fire Cora and let Breslow pick the new manager and his coaches.

2 - Put Anthony at 1B for 2025 only and bring back Casas in 2026.

3 - Move Story to 3B until Bregman returns and put Mayer at SS to see if he can play defense at the position.  Personally, I think fans will be surprised that he's not anything more than a league average defender at best.  I hope I'm wrong, but his minor league performance indicates he's nothing special and he's injury prone.

4 - Build a plan for the roster by position that provides a Division Championship level roster.

C - Narvaez, Wong

1B - Casas, acquire a back-up Corner Infielder

2B - Campbell, Story

SS - Mayer, Story

3B - Bregman, acquire a back-up Corner Infielder

LF, CF, RF - Duran, Rafaela, Anthony back-up Abreu

DH - Devers

These are the 13 roster spots for the offense.  9 hitters with a Corner Infield back-up, a Middle Infield back-up an outfield back-up and a back-up catcher. 

We are set for 2026 on offense EXCEPT for a back-up catcher and back-up Corner Infielder.

These are two bit-players that should be acquired easily.  That leaves Breslow with the task of upgrading the starting staff during the off season.  We know Crochet and Buehler are quality pitchers now we need to find 3 more from our ranks or free agency plus upgrade the bullpen.

I personally prefer to keep Duran but if Breslow can acquire a high ceiling prospect and excellent reliever for Duran and a salary dump of Yoshida then all he has to do is figure out how to replace their ONLY lead-off hitter.  That's why I think Duran needs to stay as much as I like the idea of a Salas and Estrada deal for Yoshida and Duran (salary dump on Yoshida to fund missing personnel for 2026).

I think it's a waste of time to continually blast the young players for not being good enough to produce the runs they need to win.  That all comes with experience and these guys don't have that yet so put the team together with a new manager and see if they can improve their defense, work on their ability to adjust to changes in the way their opponents pitch them and work with the pitching staff to more effectively reduce inherited runners that score.

[cp176]

8 hours ago, illinoisredsox said:

Organizational approach is launch angle.

Anyone else see the story from spring training where an unnamed young hitter asked Jim Rice for some advice; Rice did his patented hit line drives, go the other way if you have to.  You know, the complicated stuff that got him a plaque in Cooperstown.  Some computer nerd rushed over and told him not to talk to the hitters because it might contradict what the data was telling the organization what their hitters to do.  Rice basically told him to go look at his computer monitor but I guess he isn’t welcome any more,  I’ve heard similar stories from other ex-players in other organizations.

Totally agree.  It’s the old clout or an out theory.  Dave kingman deluxe.  I hate this and the metrics that support it.  

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

An alien from another planet lands in Boston. This visitor comes from a world totally alien to ours, except for one thing: they know baseball.

In his research, the spaceman learns that the Red Sox lost their #3 and #4 batters to injury. And they keep losing. Luckily, they have the NUMBER ONE HITTING PROSPECT IN THE SPORT at the next highest level, waiting for a call-up.

"What's the hold-up?" asks the visitor.

He's told that the front office can't find a spot for Roman Anthony on the big league team...

"That does not compute."

Who would he possibly replace?

"How about anyone? They suck!"

[Deja Doh]

We left 11 men on base, the Angels just 8.

We struck out 10 times, the Angels just 6.

We made 3 errors (Angels radio announcers thought it should be 4), the Angels none.

That loss is on Cora.

[mvp 78]

10 hours ago, iortiz said:

If I’m Cora I make sure everybody stay in the stadium and practice fundamentals to dead! 

They are already in MLB. It's probably too late for that. It's a roster construction failure. It's an organizational development failure. It's an MLB failure (these issues happen across MLB). 

[illinoisredsox]

1 minute ago, Deja Doh said:

We left 11 men on base, the Angels just 8.

We struck out 10 times, the Angels just 6.

We made 3 errors (Angels radio announcers thought it should be 4), the Angels none.

That loss is on Cora.

Cora went 1-13 with RISP?  Cora struck out 10 times?  Cora made 3 errors?  Cora didn’t tag up on Duran’s deep fly in the 9th?

Criticizing Cora for not bringing Chapman back out for the 10th or his selection of Kelly for the 10th makes perfect sense.  The stuff in the first paragraph is on the players.

[mvp 78]

5 minutes ago, Deja Doh said:

We left 11 men on base, the Angels just 8.

C'mon man... Listen to yourself. 

[mvp 78]

Just now, illinoisredsox said:

Cora went 1-13 with RISP?  Cora struck out 10 times?  Cora made 3 errors?  Cora didn’t tag up on Duran’s deep fly in the 9th?

Criticizing Cora for not bringing Chapman back out for the 10th or his selection of Kelly for the 10th makes perfect sense.  The stuff in the first paragraph is on the players.

Yup. Cora is the easy shield FOR PLAYERS THAT ARE JUST NOT THAT GOOD. 

[TheSplinteredSplendor]

As a Yankee fan, I hope the sox sign cora to a lifetime managerial contract.