A Realistic View of the 2025 Red Sox: Part I

[Larry Cook]

Arenado and Helsey straight up for yoshida and Guerrero 

[moonslav59]

Unless Yoshida is part of an Arenado trade, no thanks.

[Hitch]

Rosenthal speculating last night that Red Sox could move Casas for someone like Bryan Woo from Seattle. 

 

I don't for a second think Seattle take that deal, but if they were interested, I'd do it yesterday. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, Hitch said:

Rosenthal speculating last night that Red Sox could move Casas for someone like Bryan Woo from Seattle. 

 

I don't for a second think Seattle take that deal, but if they were interested, I'd do it yesterday. 

I've speculated from the time Casas went on the IL with a core injury from swinging the bat -- the specific act that makes him so valuable -- if his career is at risk.  Have to think pros in front offices wonder the same...

... I'm also surprised that zero reporters anywhere have attempted to delve into this story, and interviewed sports medicine people unaffiliated with the club, as well as any veteran ballplayers, even at non-pro levels, who have dealt with a similar ish.

[drewski6]

13 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I've speculated from the time Casas went on the IL with a core injury from swinging the bat -- the specific act that makes him so valuable -- if his career is at risk.  Have to think pros in front offices wonder the same...

... I'm also surprised that zero reporters anywhere have attempted to delve into this story, and interviewed sports medicine people unaffiliated with the club, as well as any veteran ballplayers, even at non-pro levels, who have dealt with a similar ish.

Ive wondered this as well, especially because it was a non contact injury that arose from wear and tear from violently swinging the bat. Its not like hes not going to continue swinging when he bats.

[drewski6]

At first I was surprised that Abreu trade value seemed to have surpassed Casas , but I feel like Ive grown to understand why and see it as justified. Especially because Abreu is rock-solid defensively.

[mvp 78]

2 hours ago, Hitch said:

Rosenthal speculating last night that Red Sox could move Casas for someone like Bryan Woo from Seattle. 

 

I don't for a second think Seattle take that deal, but if they were interested, I'd do it yesterday. 

Pull that trigger in a second. 

[mvp 78]

25 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

At first I was surprised that Abreu trade value seemed to have surpassed Casas , but I feel like Ive grown to understand why and see it as justified. Especially because Abreu is rock-solid defensively.

And Abreu stays healthy. 

Abreu 4.3 bWAR, 117 OPS+ 160 G Career

Casas 2.8 bWAR 125 OPS+ 222 G Career

[Hugh2]

21 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Pull that trigger in a second. 

This would make a lot more sense for me than Casas for Crochet. 

[Bellhorn04]

I must say, Casas is becoming a textbook example of how fast you can go from highly touted prospect to "trade him while you can".

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

I must say, Casas is becoming a textbook example of how fast you can go from highly touted prospect to "trade him while you can".

There's a lot to like, but his defense never improved and he can't stay on the field. 

[Duran Is The Man]

20 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

There's a lot to like, but his defense never improved and he can't stay on the field. 

and didn't he balk at a contract extension last year?

[Bellhorn04]

8 minutes ago, Duran Is The Man said:

and didn't he balk at a contract extension last year?

He declined an offer, but I think he's getting a bad rap on it.  He said the offer wasn't enticing, but he also said he knows he has to improve in certain areas to earn a bigger offer.    

[notin]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

I've speculated from the time Casas went on the IL with a core injury from swinging the bat -- the specific act that makes him so valuable -- if his career is at risk.  Have to think pros in front offices wonder the same...

... I'm also surprised that zero reporters anywhere have attempted to delve into this story, and interviewed sports medicine people unaffiliated with the club, as well as any veteran ballplayers, even at non-pro levels, who have dealt with a similar ish.

Chris Sale broke a rib throwing a pitch, which is obviously the action that fills his wallet.  Did it derail his career?

[Duran Is The Man]

2 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

He declined an offer, but I think he's getting a bad rap on it.  He said the offer wasn't enticing, but he also said he knows he has to improve in certain areas to earn a bigger offer.    

ok. i couldn't quite remember what was going on there. maybe it was a decent offer. maybe not. and maybe he didn't like the direction Henry was taking the team.

[Bellhorn04]

4 minutes ago, notin said:

Chris Sale broke a rib throwing a pitch, which is obviously the action that fills his wallet.  Did it derail his career?

Pitchers are different.  We've become accustomed to them having strange and frequent injuries.

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

14 minutes ago, notin said:

Chris Sale broke a rib throwing a pitch, which is obviously the action that fills his wallet.  

Only if he keeps it in his back pocket. But these guys are so loaded, a lot just keep a money clip or roll in their front pocket, right below where their arms hang naturally.

[mvp 78]

39 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

He declined an offer, but I think he's getting a bad rap on it.  He said the offer wasn't enticing, but he also said he knows he has to improve in certain areas to earn a bigger offer.    

We don't know what the offer was and I can't fault him for turning it down to begin with. I think he struggled to get back on the field this year and that's what I'm most concerned about. I just want guys that can actually be counted on to play. I don't care about off field stuff so much.

[notin]

2 hours ago, Hugh2 said:

This would make a lot more sense for me than Casas for Crochet. 

Why Woo over Crochet?  I see clear pros and cons for both…

[notin]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Pitchers are different.  We've become accustomed to them having strange and frequent injuries.

 

You left out the words “more serious”.

 

I can name numerous pitchers who injured themselves pitching in such a fashion that it ended their careers prematurely.  And for every one I name, you can probably add two more.

 

But how many hitters can you name whose career ended after a swinging injury?  

And I mean swinging the bat, not wife swapping.  Although if you can name someone with a wife swapping injury, please do.  Please…

[Hugh2]

7 minutes ago, notin said:

Why Woo over Crochet?  I see clear pros and cons for both…

Younger, with 3 more years of team control.  

I would could just stop there.  History of a starter, Crochet is a converted reliever who threw a record 140 innings and with a history of injury I'd be concerned his next is right around the corner. 

It's not even close.  Woo is the type of guy you want, not someone who's entering arby years, has a higher risk of going down, and you gotta pay to extend anyway. 

[notin]

2 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Younger, with 3 more years of team control.  

I would could just stop there.  History of a starter, Crochet is a converted reliever who threw a record 140 innings and with a history of injury I'd be concerned his next is right around the corner. 

It's not even close.  Woo is the type of guy you want, not someone who's entering arby years, has a higher risk of going down, and you gotta pay to extend anyway. 

But you left out what should be a very important factor - Crochet is a better pitcher…

[Hugh2]

5 minutes ago, notin said:

But you left out what should be a very important factor - Crochet is a better pitcher…

And how well did that work for us when we had Chris Sale sitting on the shelf all those years?

I'd rather have Woo and his 3 MORE years of control. It's also perfectly reasonable that Woo is still developing and improving. 

I like Crochet, and would love to have him here, but if the asking price gets high I'd pivot.  He's risky, Crochets arm scares the s*** out of me. 

[mvp 78]

Woo seems like a very good pitcher who was marginally helped out by pitching in SEA. Crochet has some question marks, but has a CY ceiling right out of the box. Hard to say who I would make the trade for, but Crochet would have to be extended for sure. I think Crochet is a little overhyped. I'm not a Crochet hater, I just think people are going a little overboard on him. I don't think he's the game changer CHW Chris Sale was prior to the trade. 

[Duran Is The Man]

51 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Woo seems like a very good pitcher who was marginally helped out by pitching in SEA. Crochet has some question marks, but has a CY ceiling right out of the box. Hard to say who I would make the trade for, but Crochet would have to be extended for sure. I think Crochet is a little overhyped. I'm not a Crochet hater, I just think people are going a little overboard on him. I don't think he's the game changer CHW Chris Sale was prior to the trade. 

i just don't get the hard on everybody has for Crochet. overhyped is an understatement IMHO. i saw people on FB wanting to give up Casas, Abreu, Wong PLUS for this guy. absolute insanity.

 

[Hugh2]

51 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Woo seems like a very good pitcher who was marginally helped out by pitching in SEA. Crochet has some question marks, but has a CY ceiling right out of the box. Hard to say who I would make the trade for, but Crochet would have to be extended for sure. I think Crochet is a little overhyped. I'm not a Crochet hater, I just think people are going a little overboard on him. I don't think he's the game changer CHW Chris Sale was prior to the trade. 

Exactly, my desire for Crochet has shifted back and forth, I think it all comes down to the return.  I assumed it was too high but when I heard the WHite Sox would accept Abreu as the headliner the wheels in my mind started to spin. 

But if Abreu, turns into ABreu/Casas/Crawford then no thank you.  Just pay Burnes/Snell/Fried at that point. 

[moonslav59]

Woo over Crochet is a no-brainer.

3 more years of control

Better 2023-2024

I'd give Casas + Wink for Woo.

 

[moonslav59]

I would not give more than Abreu & DHam for Crochet. Okay, maybe I'd add Wink.

[mvp 78]

I'd put Winckowski in any and all trades. Don't care about that guy at all. 

[Bellhorn04]

Abreu/DHam/Wink = the 2024-2025 offseason moon standard package.  😀