Red Sox: Off Season 2024-2025

[Hugh2]

What if the Red Sox sign Bregman today, and Tanner Scott tomorrow?  How would we feel about the offseason. 

Rotation additions: 

Garrett Crochet. Walker Buehler

Bullpen Additions:

Aroldis Chapman. Justin Wilson. Tanner Scott

Lineup additions: 

Alex Bregman

2025 expected Rookie contributions:

Roman Anthony/Kristian Campbell/Luis Guerrero

returning injured players expected to contribute:

Trevor Story. Lucas Giolito. Garrett Whitlock. Liam Hendriks

[Hugh2]

Just now, Hugh2 said:

What if the Red Sox sign Bregman today, and Tanner Scott tomorrow?  How would we feel about the offseason. 

Rotation additions: 

Garrett Crochet. Walker Buehler

Bullpen Additions:

Aroldis Chapman. Justin Wilson. Tanner Scott

Lineup additions: 

Alex Bregman

2025 expected Rookie contributions:

Roman Anthony/Kristian Campbell/Luis Guerrero

returning injured players expected to contribute:

Trevor Story. Lucas Giolito. Garrett Whitlock. Liam Hendriks

Not that I expect this, but the offseason most of us wanted is still there for the taking. 

[Bellhorn04]

8 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

What if the Red Sox sign Bregman today, and Tanner Scott tomorrow?  How would we feel about the offseason. 

Holy Hypotheticals!  I think you just out-mooned moon.

[Hugh2]

22 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Holy Hypotheticals!  I think you just out-mooned moon.

I take it someone isn't a fan of Marvels "What If?"

Maybe Arenado/Hoffman is more realistic.  Kirby is still out there too. 

I do think another bullpen arm is likely, and the Sox have been heavily tied to both Bregman and Arenado. 

[moonslav59]

Getting Helsley with Arenado would be great, but he's only got one year left of control. I'm not sure Casas for Arenado + some cash and Helsley would be worth it, but STL does not want to pay a lot of cash. They would not want Yoshida or Gio or Story. Rafaela is owed $48M at $6.25 AAV, but now we are giving up even more, and for what? A one year window?

Now, if Helsley extended I'd think about it, but like the Bregman deal, NOT TO PLAY ARENADO at 1B!

[Hugh2]

35 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Getting Helsley with Arenado would be great, but he's only got one year left of control. I'm not sure Casas for Arenado + some cash and Helsley would be worth it, but STL does not want to pay a lot of cash. They would not want Yoshida or Gio or Story. Rafaela is owed $48M at $6.25 AAV, but now we are giving up even more, and for what? A one year window?

Now, if Helsley extended I'd think about it, but like the Bregman deal, NOT TO PLAY ARENADO at 1B!

If Breslow trades Casas for Arenado he should be fired for malpractice and chased out of town with pitch forks. 

I feel dirty for even typing the words Casas and trade in the same sentence. 

[moonslav59]

26 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

If Breslow trades Casas for Arenado he should be fired for malpractice and chased out of town with pitch forks. 

I feel dirty for even typing the words Casas and trade in the same sentence. 

I really do not want to trade Casas, but getting Helsley and an extension would make me not feel so dirty.

Also, dumping Yoshida gets me listening to any trade offer, not that he is being mentioned here.

Would you trade Rafaela, Cespedes & Fitts for Arenado & Helsley and no cash? (I think we'd be barely under the tax line with little wiggle room.)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Holy Hypotheticals!  I think you just out-mooned moon.

Zimmer once said, "If ifs and buts were candied nuts, we'd all have a wonderful Christmas."

That was years before he tried to headbutt Pedro -- which led to a downfall that will always be his lasting image (even though New York fans deny ever seeing the first part, live on TV for millions to witness... what a country).

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Holy Hypotheticals!  I think you just out-mooned moon.

I would never suggest we go over the second tax line, like I think these deals would do.

I'm not sure we would even go over the first line, this year.

[Hugh2]

12 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I really do not want to trade Casas, but getting Helsley and an extension would make me not feel so dirty.

Also, dumping Yoshida gets me listening to any trade offer, not that he is being mentioned here.

Would you trade Rafaela, Cespedes & Fitts for Arenado & Helsley and no cash? (I think we'd be barely under the tax line with little wiggle room.)

As a general rule of thumb I don't want to even think about trading a guy with middle of the order bat potential for a reliever.  It's just bad business, and Arenado could be on a serious decline right now.  His numbers are down, his bat speed has decreased every single year and was at an all time low and is probably not coming back at 34 years old.  

Casas has something to prove, but he's young and has the ceiling of a 35+ home run hitter who can walk and hit for average.  Trading for a reliever to just pay him is just wrong....just go out and pay Scott. 

[Hugh2]

10 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I would never suggest we go over the second tax line, like I think these deals would do.

I'm not sure we would even go over the first line, this year.

Bregman + Scott might add $45 million would put the payroll at about $259.00 below the second threshold and even if they went over it so what? lets say those two contracts put them at $265.  The cost of doing that is 480,000 that's it.  Not even the league min on a player.  

Certainly better than trading for a guy on serious decline in his mid 30's and a reliever who will hit free agency next year and will probably have to be paid like Tanner Scott anyways. 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

14 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Bregman + Scott might add $45 million would put the payroll at about $259.00 below the second threshold and even if they went over it so what? lets say those two contracts put them at $265.  The cost of doing that is 480,000 that's it.  Not even the league min on a player.  

Certainly better than trading for a guy on serious decline in his mid 30's and a reliever who will hit free agency next year and will probably have to be paid like Tanner Scott anyways. 

Hugh, what are you doing trying to make sense? All your proposals only work if the Red Sox are run by a billionaire who owns one of the top-earning revenue franchises in professional baseball!

[Duran Is The Man]

2 hours ago, Hitch said:

We do seem to be very active in trade talks, over say the free agent market. Cotillo mentioned on a pod the other day, we've all but signed out of the free agent market (pen arms aside) but are very active on trade talks.

There does feel like there might be something in this. Casas leaving would have to bring back something tasty however, as well as a large chunk or Arenado's contract paid down.

I've zero idea about what the Cards have that would be enticing. 

I would love to see them get Quinn Matthews but i'm not trading Casas for him. i know Hence is rated higher. not sure why though. and Jimmy Crooks has the potential at catcher. dude can hit.

[moonslav59]

33 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

Bregman + Scott might add $45 million would put the payroll at about $259.00 below the second threshold and even if they went over it so what? lets say those two contracts put them at $265.  The cost of doing that is 480,000 that's it.  Not even the league min on a player.  

Certainly better than trading for a guy on serious decline in his mid 30's and a reliever who will hit free agency next year and will probably have to be paid like Tanner Scott anyways. 

I'm not going into the "so what?"

JH has shown he won't go over the first line. Until I see him do it, I won't assume the second line is okay to pass.

[moonslav59]

Did you guys see what Nate Lowe was traded for? (Robert Garcia.) Here is a 29 year olf 1Bman, who actually stays pretty healthy and has a 124 OPS+ since 2022 (1934 PAs)

Casas has a 125 OP+ in 840 PAs since 2022 and turns 25, soon. Okay, he's 4 years younger, but he sucks on D and should be a DH. (Nate Lowe has 2 arbs left/Casas has 3 after this season's pre-arb year.

Again, I don't want to trade Casas, but let's not think finding another decent 1B man will be super hard or costly. This is part of the reason the trade value of Casas seems so low. Christian Walker signed for $60M/3.

[notin]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Zimmer once said, "If ifs and buts were candied nuts, we'd all have a wonderful Christmas."

That was years before he tried to headbutt Pedro -- which led to a downfall that will always be his lasting image (even though New York fans deny ever seeing the first part, live on TV for millions to witness... what a country).

That Zimmer incident is covered on the recently released Netflix docu-series “The Comeback” about the 2004 Red Sox…

[Hugh2]

16 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not going into the "so what?"

JH has shown he won't go over the first line. Until I see him do it, I won't assume the second line is okay to pass.

It's literally only been two years since he's gone over the line. 

They've stayed under during years they suck.  

[mvp 78]

51 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

If Breslow trades Casas for Arenado he should be fired for malpractice and chased out of town with pitch forks. 

I feel dirty for even typing the words Casas and trade in the same sentence. 

I'd trade Casas to build back some prospect capital if it meant Devers went to 1B and they signed Bregman to a 3 year deal. 

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Zimmer once said, "If ifs and buts were candied nuts, we'd all have a wonderful Christmas."

That was years before he tried to headbutt Pedro -- which led to a downfall that will always be his lasting image (even though New York fans deny ever seeing the first part, live on TV for millions to witness... what a country).

And the announcers were all over Pedro for sidestepping a 250 lb bull for some reason. 

[Hugh2]

1 minute ago, mvp 78 said:

I'd trade Casas to build back some prospect capital if it meant Devers went to 1B and they signed Bregman to a 3 year deal. 

I'm not against trading anyone for the right price, but we've seen the market for 1B.  It's s***, so I don't think we are going to get anything great for Casas. 

Casas value is in his potential to be a middle of the order bat, which he needs to stay healthy to be able to reach. 

His value is probably higher to Boston than anywhere else.  I don't think we are getting any real good prospects for Casas.  I would love to be wrong, but I think we would all be very disappointed with the return he would bring.  I'd rather bank on him coming back and mashing the baseball. 

[moonslav59]

1 minute ago, Hugh2 said:

It's literally only been two years since he's gone over the line. 

They've stayed under during years they suck.  

Yes, by mistake. No way he goes over the second line. Sorry, that's just how I feel: until he shows me otherwise.

For years, I argues he spend in cycles and in 2022, he spent on Story, but not anymore. I'm dont thinking he might. I need to see it, first.

Just my opinion.

[Bellhorn04]

7 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

It's literally only been two years since he's gone over the line. 

They've stayed under during years they suck.  

Conversely, they've sucked some years they've gone over.  Including 2022.

[drewski6]

3 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

If both sides are determined to make this happen, it can only mean both sides are trying to get rid of guys before their value plummets to Yoshida levels. 

And both sides must realize both Arenado and Casas are damaged goods to some extent -- one is past his prime; the other may never reach it because of a specific injury.

The only hope for Red Sox fans is that in order to take on Arenado's contract, Breslow is smart enough to demand someone else actually good, like a pitcher without an elbow issue.

Such a trade would also mean a major shift in the defensive alignment, because Boston can't be that stupid to play one of the best third base gloves of all-time at first base...

Problem is that Arrenados contract has already plummeted to Yoshi trade value levels and Casas still has a small-to-moderate surplus.

Well thats a problem if you are swapping, its not inherently a problem that Casas has more value than Arrenado.

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I'd trade Casas to build back some prospect capital if it meant Devers went to 1B and they signed Bregman to a 3 year deal. 

But not for Castillo, trade for Crawford for Arenado & Cash and move Devers to 1B?

[Bellhorn04]

3 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, by mistake. No way he goes over the second line. Sorry, that's just how I feel: until he shows me otherwise.

Let's give them a little credit for their math skills.  They didn't go over in 2022 by mistake.  And at the time, they didn't think not getting back under was a mistake.  In 20/20 retrospect it might look like mistakes.

[mvp 78]

4 minutes ago, Hugh2 said:

I'm not against trading anyone for the right price, but we've seen the market for 1B.  It's s***, so I don't think we are going to get anything great for Casas. 

Casas value is in his potential to be a middle of the order bat, which he needs to stay healthy to be able to reach. 

His value is probably higher to Boston than anywhere else.  I don't think we are getting any real good prospects for Casas.  I would love to be wrong, but I think we would all be very disappointed with the return he would bring.  I'd rather bank on him coming back and mashing the baseball. 

I get it. The best solution may be to keep Devers at 3B, Casas at 1B and Masa at DH. 

[mvp 78]

1 minute ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Let's give them a little credit for their math skills.  They didn't go over in 2022 by mistake.  And at the time, they didn't think not getting back under was a mistake.  In 20/20 retrospect it might look like mistakes.

It was a mistake since they were offering QO's the following offseason!

[moonslav59]

5 minutes ago, drewski6 said:

Problem is that Arrenados contract has already plummeted to Yoshi trade value levels and Casas still has a small-to-moderate surplus.

Well thats a problem if you are swapping, its not inherently a problem that Casas has more value than Arrenado.

Arenado's contract with the COL payments and deferrals is said to be about $60M/3, which is almost equal to Yoshida, but the guy can still field and has hit about as well as Yoshida.

I'm extremely concerned about Arenado's bat decline, and he turns 34, soon. 3 more years could easily turn into worse than Yoshida. He did hit .891 in '22, which was better than '20 and '21, so he has not been on a total downswing since he was 28-29.

He still had an OPS+ of 101 in 2024 with plus defense at 3B. Yoshida was 112 and he could easily do better in '25, but we can't expect that from Arenado, unless Fenway loves him.

Yoshida: .814 at Fenway/ .740 away. Maybe Arenado can do better.

[drewski6]

11 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I'd trade Casas to build back some prospect capital if it meant Devers went to 1B and they signed Bregman to a 3 year deal. 

You are still this patient?

[Hugh2]

4 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I get it. The best solution may be to keep Devers at 3B, Casas at 1B and Masa at DH. 

Or just sign Bregman and DH Devers.

that lineup and infield defense is better