Red Sox: Off Season 2024-2025

[notin]

16 hours ago, Randy Red Sox said:

NO NO NO--the Sox need to spend on PITCHING, PITCHING, AND MORE PITCHING  !!

Well, bad news for you.  The Sox have already added much of that pitching.

The bullpen loses Jansen and Martin, but figures to add Whitlock (hopefully), Campbell, Hendriks and Fulmer to join the returning Winkowski, Kelly and Criswell.  Zach Pernod seems likely to replace Bernardino.  Weissert and Guerrero are still around for depth.  And Chris Murphy isn’t dead yet.

 

In the rotation, barring trades, expect Houck, Bello and Crawford back.  Not sure of Giolito’s timeline, especially since he only had the brace and not full TJ.  Fitts and Priester hopefully just provide depth, leaving one spot in the rotation still open.

Thats one spot assuming Fitts and Priester are both depth and one of them isn’t slated to start…

 

 

[notin]

30 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Are Urquidy me? He's perfect for the Red Sox: damaged goods -- maybe even damaged bads -- but probably eager to ink a pillow contract to get paid while he rehabs, with a target date return at the end of next summer... when "he'll be better than anything on the trade market; and we don't have to deal prospects for him!"

There has to be a whole conference table of Asst. VPs in Boston who've already conspired to offer him a lowball, scrapheaping helping of salad bar greens, and are now plotting how not to leave cyber footprints as evidence for tampering (counting, of course, on the MLB to look the other way at any possible transgressions toward the Astros... forever).

Urquidy sucks.  The only reason to give him the injury contract treatment is he’s much more enjoyable when actually injured…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

41 minutes ago, notin said:

Urquidy sucks.  The only reason to give him the injury contract treatment is he’s much more enjoyable when actually injured…

If he sucks, we can give him an opt in... but if he's good, there'll be a Dodgers-Yankees clause where he can leave and sign for current market prices.

The Red Sox menu has a lot of King Crab Legs.

[Larry Cook]

On 9/22/2024 at 2:54 PM, moonslav59 said:

No circumstance?

Anthony for Miller and Woo? You'd say no?

Montgomery for either one? No?

I would say no to both of those. 

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Larry Cook said:

I would say no to both of those. 

So, basically you'd only agree to an absurdly lop-sided trade that the other team would never agree to.

I'll as, because why? You value Anthony way more than any GM does?

(I'm not trying to bust your B's- just wondering.)

[Larry Cook]

31 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

So, basically you'd only agree to an absurdly lop-sided trade that the other team would never agree to.

I'll as, because why? You value Anthony way more than any GM does?

(I'm not trying to bust your B's- just wondering.)

I value Anthony highly, but the only way Seattle is trading Miller and woo for Anthony is  if they know both pitchers have damage to their arms. 

[Randy Red Sox]

9 hours ago, notin said:

Maybe the Phillies like the Sox outfielders, but they aren’t breaking up their staff to acquire one.  And their minor league pitching begins and ends with Abel and Painter - not much depth…

one of those 2 likely could help the Sox

[Randy Red Sox]

4 hours ago, notin said:

Well, bad news for you.  The Sox have already added much of that pitching.

The bullpen loses Jansen and Martin, but figures to add Whitlock (hopefully), Campbell, Hendriks and Fulmer to join the returning Winkowski, Kelly and Criswell.  Zach Pernod seems likely to replace Bernardino.  Weissert and Guerrero are still around for depth.  And Chris Murphy isn’t dead yet.

 

In the rotation, barring trades, expect Houck, Bello and Crawford back.  Not sure of Giolito’s timeline, especially since he only had the brace and not full TJ.  Fitts and Priester hopefully just provide depth, leaving one spot in the rotation still open.

Thats one spot assuming Fitts and Priester are both depth and one of them isn’t slated to start…

 

 

those guys are just bottom end guys just like most of the other pitchers the Sox have acquired the past few years but I agree the Sox probably figure they have enough P for 2025

[moonslav59]

13 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

I value Anthony highly, but the only way Seattle is trading Miller and woo for Anthony is  if they know both pitchers have damage to their arms. 

I get that, and I agree SEA would not give both for Anthony.

Can you name a trade for Anthony, in which bot GM might agree, and you think is worth the risk?

[Randy Red Sox]

46 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

So, basically you'd only agree to an absurdly lop-sided trade that the other team would never agree to.

I'll as, because why? You value Anthony way more than any GM does?

(I'm not trying to bust your B's- just wondering.)

According to the article on this site Anthony is the #1 prospect in baseball.  I do not trade him for anyone not name Ohtani

[moonslav59]

Here is a look at the 2023 Season Ending Rosters:

Sale, Bello, Pivetta, Houck, Crawford (IL Paxton)

Jansen, (IL Martin,) Wink, Whitlock, Bernardino, Schreiber, Llovera, Murphy, Kelly, Robertson (IL Joely)

Wong & McGuire

Turner (IL Casas) Dalbec

EValdez (IL Urias) Reyes

Devers

Story

Abreu, Refsnyder

Duvall, Rafaela

Verdugo

Yoshida

AAA: SP: Drohan, Bearclaw, Van Belle, Gambrell, Walter, Rio Gomez (IL Santos), RP: Ort, Mata, Weiss, Jacques, Garza, Gillaspie, Politi, Booser, F German, R Fernandez, Hagenman, Mosqueda, Shugart, Nail           C: Ro Hernandez, Caleb Hamilton, 1B: Kavadas, 2B: McDonough, 3B: Sogard, SS: Koss, LF: Dearden, CF Crook, RF: C Rosier, DH: Scott

AA "Highlights: SP Wikelman, Dob bins, I Coffey, Liu/ RP: Hoppe, Troye, Zef/ C Teel/ 1B Jordan/ 2B Yorke/ 3B: M Lugo/ SS Meidroth/ OF: Anthony & Sikes/ DH: Hickey

WOW! What a changeover!

 

[Larry Cook]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I get that, and I agree SEA would not give both for Anthony.

Can you name a trade for Anthony, in which bot GM might agree, and you think is worth the risk?

I like how ragan’s of the royals a lot. But would they do it??? 

[moonslav59]

I'm not itching to trade Anthony. I actually do NOT want to.

My point is, anyone should be traded for a better return. It's that simple.

To think we have a player that is better than any possible return package (within reason) just does not compute with me, if the return fills a much greater need for the Sox (PITCHING) than OF does, now.

I'm all for trading Rafaela or Abreu, instead- knowing the return will be much less.

[notin]

3 hours ago, Randy Red Sox said:

According to the article on this site Anthony is the #1 prospect in baseball.  I do not trade him for anyone not name Ohtani

You wouldn’t trade him for Paul Skenes? 
 

If you want cheap, controllable pitching, Skenes is the guy.  Ohtani has already had TJ twice and his pitching career is going to be limited for whatever little time it has left. 
 

(I could easily name a dozen MLB players I’d trade Anthony for, and Ohtani isn’t one of them.)

[Maxbialystock]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

I'm not itching to trade Anthony. I actually do NOT want to.

My point is, anyone should be traded for a better return. It's that simple.

To think we have a player that is better than any possible return package (within reason) just does not compute with me, if the return fills a much greater need for the Sox (PITCHING) than OF does, now.

I'm all for trading Rafaela or Abreu, instead- knowing the return will be much less.

You have consistently made a strong case for offseason trades, especially for starters.

What you have left out is that right now the Sox front office and especially Craig Breslow have demonstrated zero ability to acquire a good starter.  And, in case you have forgotten, John Henry has 30 years of MLB front office experience, primarily as an owner, and is also the best owner in Red Sox history.  For most of his 23 seasons as the Sox owner he underwrote a payroll consistently among the top five in MLB. 

And that all turned sour in 2019 when the Sox, with the highest payroll in MLB, not only did not make it to the postseason, but needed a major influx of cash to keep Mookie, to acquire first-line starters to replace Price and Sale, and to continue paying Price and Sale's their top-line salaries.  

[Randy Red Sox]

15 minutes ago, notin said:

You wouldn’t trade him for Paul Skenes? 
 

If you want cheap, controllable pitching, Skenes is the guy.  Ohtani has already had TJ twice and his pitching career is going to be limited for whatever little time it has left. 
 

(I could easily name a dozen MLB players I’d trade Anthony for, and Ohtani isn’t one of them.)

yeah because Anthony is going to hit 50 HR and 50 SB'S AND provide some legit pitching even if it is just for a couple years. I am not advocating a trade for SO just using him as an example.  I keep Anthony. 

[Maxbialystock]

23 minutes ago, notin said:

You wouldn’t trade him for Paul Skenes? 
 

If you want cheap, controllable pitching, Skenes is the guy.  Ohtani has already had TJ twice and his pitching career is going to be limited for whatever little time it has left. 
 

(I could easily name a dozen MLB players I’d trade Anthony for, and Ohtani isn’t one of them.)

Agree completely Skenes is far more useful than Ohtani, but I also think getting Skenes from the Pirates would require the Sox to give up a lot--certainly two of their top prospects or two of their best players.  

[harmony]

4 hours ago, moonslav59 said:

I get that, and I agree SEA would not give both for Anthony.

Can you name a trade for Anthony, in which bot GM might agree, and you think is worth the risk?

In January 2012, Seattle traded righthander Michael Pineda, a 22-year-old coming off a solid rookie season, for top prospect Jesus Montero.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=monter001jes

That's a trade the Mariners regret ... and a trade that shows the risk of trading a young productive starter for a top prospect.

[notin]

2 hours ago, Randy Red Sox said:

yeah because Anthony is going to hit 50 HR and 50 SB'S AND provide some legit pitching even if it is just for a couple years. I am not advocating a trade for SO just using him as an example.  I keep Anthony. 

Hey if you think the Sox should only spend on pitching, specifically a young, cost-controlled starter, Ohtani has very little starter left in him and his costs are out of control…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Ex-players-turned-announcers recently stressed the importance of multiple stars carrying clubs to the postseason. Most of the playoff teams are loaded with position player talent, and the few that aren't have top pitching staffs, like Milwaukee and Cleveland. 

The Red Sox had one star player all season, and it wasn't Rafael Devers. All-Star MVP Jarren Duran needs more quality company around him in the batting order and on the field -- not less.

Trading a guy like Roman Anthony who may be an All-Star for the next decade isn't worth it for pitching, not when modern arms are all just an elbow tendon away from years of ineffectiveness.

Star power is just as big a need in Boston as starting pitching. A young core of position players that grows into contenders together is also vital in building and sustaining a young core of fans who can identify with their cause. 

 

[moonslav59]

9 hours ago, Maxbialystock said:

You have consistently made a strong case for offseason trades, especially for starters.

What you have left out is that right now the Sox front office and especially Craig Breslow have demonstrated zero ability to acquire a good starter.  And, in case you have forgotten, John Henry has 30 years of MLB front office experience, primarily as an owner, and is also the best owner in Red Sox history.  For most of his 23 seasons as the Sox owner he underwrote a payroll consistently among the top five in MLB. 

And that all turned sour in 2019 when the Sox, with the highest payroll in MLB, not only did not make it to the postseason, but needed a major influx of cash to keep Mookie, to acquire first-line starters to replace Price and Sale, and to continue paying Price and Sale's their top-line salaries.  

Maybe I have not mentioned it enough, but I have often said, "We better pick the right guy to get."

I think it is unfair to say "especially Breslow," based on less than a year as the CBO. Yes, the Sale trade sucked, but that was not an example of him trading for a pitcher that did not work out. The Gio addition was a signing, not a trade, and blaming an injury on the CBO is not my thing. It's not like Gio was a Paxton, Kluber or Richards-type signing we saw under Bloom.

Other trades or pitcher additions: Fitts, Slaten, Criswell, Sandlin and yes, also Weissert, I Campbell and Chase Andusawa.

I feel more trust in Brez than Bloom on additing pitching.

I share the concern on JH maybe not allowing a big trade or signing for a pitcher, but that won't stop me from suggesting what I think we need to do.

Don't confuse suggestions with predictions, and I certainly know that even if they do what I suggest they do, it could all go horribly wrong.

Do you now like Fitts, Criswell and Slaten? Who got them?

[notin]

13 minutes ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

Ex-players-turned-announcers recently stressed the importance of multiple stars carrying clubs to the postseason. Most of the playoff teams are loaded with position player talent, and the few that aren't have top pitching staffs, like Milwaukee and Cleveland. 

The Red Sox had one star player all season, and it wasn't Rafael Devers. All-Star MVP Jarren Duran needs more quality company around him in the batting order and on the field -- not less.

Trading a guy like Roman Anthony who may be an All-Star for the next decade isn't worth it for pitching, not when modern arms are all just an elbow tendon away from years of ineffectiveness.

Star power is just as big a need in Boston as starting pitching. A young core of position players that grows into contenders together is also vital in building and sustaining a young core of fans who can identify with their cause. 

 

I cannot agree with that logic.

 

I don’t think the Sox should trade Anthony, but if you want top pitching, you’re going to have to pay with to talent, especially if you’re not parting with top dollar.

And for all his hype, Anthony isn’t a star yet.  Yea, he’s the #1 prospect in the minors.  But so we’re Daisuke and Benintendi - did either become Star Talent?  Moncada was #2.  Should the Sox have kept him?

The Sox need pitching.  The Sox need All Stars.  Do they do anything right? How did this team ever win 78 games? And how bad off are all those teams that haven’t?

 

[moonslav59]

8 hours ago, harmony said:

In January 2012, Seattle traded righthander Michael Pineda, a 22-year-old coming off a solid rookie season, for top prospect Jesus Montero.

https://www.baseball-reference.com/register/player.fcgi?id=monter001jes

That's a trade the Mariners regret ... and a trade that shows the risk of trading a young productive starter for a top prospect.

No doubt, trades run the risk of regret. That trade did not slow down SEA one bit in making trades.

[notin]

1 minute ago, moonslav59 said:

Maybe I have not mentioned it enough, but I have often said, "We better pick the right guy to get."

I think it is unfair to say "especially Breslow," based on less than a year as the CBO. Yes, the Sale trade sucked, but that was not an example of him trading for a pitcher that did not work out. The Gio addition was a signing, not a trade, and blaming an injury on the CBO is not my thing. It's not like Gio was a Paxton, Kluber or Richards-type signing we saw under Bloom.

Other trades or pitcher additions: Fitts, Slaten, Criswell, Sandlin and yes, also Weissert, I Campbell and Chase Andusawa.

I feel more trust in Brez than Bloom on additing pitching.

I share the concern on JH maybe not allowing a big trade or signing for a pitcher, but that won't stop me from suggesting what I think we need to do.

Don't confuse suggestions with predictions, and I certainly know that even if they do what I suggest they do, it could all go horribly wrong.

Do you now like Fitts, Criswell and Slaten? Who got them?

I don’t.

 

If you asked me to predict the 2025 Red Sox pitching staff, I’d   Tell you the starters will be Houck, Crawford, Bello, Giolito and either Fitts or Priester.

Id predict the bullpen to have Hendriks, Slaten, Winckowski, Whitlock, Kelly, Criswell, Fulmer, and Penrod

 

i think Breslow might have already done his heavy lifting…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

3 minutes ago, notin said:

I cannot agree with that logic.

 

I don’t think the Sox should trade Anthony, but if you want top pitching, you’re going to have to pay with to talent, especially if you’re not parting with top dollar.

And for all his hype, Anthony isn’t a star yet.  Yea, he’s the #1 prospect in the minors.  But so we’re Daisuke and Benintendi - did either become Star Talent?  Moncada was #2.  Should the Sox have kept him?

The Sox need pitching.  The Sox need All Stars.  Do they do anything right? How did this team ever win 78 games? And how bad off are all those teams that haven’t?

 

I already posted about the Moncada and Hanley Ramirez trades for Sale and Beckett. 

When the Red Sox parted with those top prospects, they already had Big League rosters loaded with star talent on World Series contenders.

That's not even close to the case this winter. Instead, they could choose to pay for free agent pitching, and spend all that money they've saved recently to get below the luxury tax... or they could trade surplus players for young arms that won't command Top 10 returns.

How about a guy like Miami lefty Ryan Weathers, 24, who made 14 starts this year and had a 1.181 WHIP?

[Bellhorn04]

"Anyone can be traded in the right deal" posts are the absolute worst.  I would rather read 10 posts by Fred Lynn about Rafaela's poor strike zone recognition than one of them.

I might have to start deleting such posts, in a shameless abuse of my new powers as moderator.  OK, I'm kidding about that part. 😎  

[moonslav59]

8 minutes ago, notin said:

I don’t.

 

If you asked me to predict the 2025 Red Sox pitching staff, I’d   Tell you the starters will be Houck, Crawford, Bello, Giolito and either Fitts or Priester.

Id predict the bullpen to have Hendriks, Slaten, Winckowski, Whitlock, Kelly, Criswell, Fulmer, and Penrod

 

i think Breslow might have already done his heavy lifting…

I can't imagine Brez thinking replacing Pivetta, Jansen and Martin with Gio, Hendriks, Fulmer and Fitts/Priester will be enough.

Of course, JH might restrict his budget, so much, he has little choice, but JH would have to demand a massive budget cut from '24 to '25 for his hands to be that tied. He's also have to demand no top prospect trades, which he might do, but we could also trade Abreu and DHam. While this would not be considered "heavy lifting," it could make measurable improvements to the pitching staff and then one signing, even if for 1/3 or 1/2 of what Pivetta, Jansen, Martin and O'Neill made combined would be close to a heavy lifting signing.

I think he will add a #3 type SP'er. I'm hoping top end.

I think he adds a very solid set up man, like maybe Sewald.

Maybe some more depth additions like Criswell (not Anderson, hopefully.)

That could be it.

He almost has to trade an OF'er, even if Ref retires.

Brez made a lot of moves. On another thread I listed the 2023 end of season rosters, and the turnover was stunning. Now, that he has had a year to do his evaluations on who we got, I think some major changes happen. Likely not what I expect, but at least 2 bold moves.

[Bellhorn04]

16 minutes ago, notin said:

I don’t.

 

If you asked me to predict the 2025 Red Sox pitching staff, I’d   Tell you the starters will be Houck, Crawford, Bello, Giolito and either Fitts or Priester.

Id predict the bullpen to have Hendriks, Slaten, Winckowski, Whitlock, Kelly, Criswell, Fulmer, and Penrod

 

i think Breslow might have already done his heavy lifting…

Now you're just going out of your way to depress us. 😎

[notin]

7 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Now you're just going out of your way to depress us. 😎

I’d hate to see lofty expectations ruin your off-season…

[notin]

13 minutes ago, moonslav59 said:

I can't imagine Brez thinking replacing Pivetta, Jansen and Martin with Gio, Hendriks, Fulmer and Fitts/Priester will be enough.

Of course, JH might restrict his budget, so much, he has little choice, but JH would have to demand a massive budget cut from '24 to '25 for his hands to be that tied. He's also have to demand no top prospect trades, which he might do, but we could also trade Abreu and DHam. While this would not be considered "heavy lifting," it could make measurable improvements to the pitching staff and then one signing, even if for 1/3 or 1/2 of what Pivetta, Jansen, Martin and O'Neill made combined would be close to a heavy lifting signing.

I think he will add a #3 type SP'er. I'm hoping top end.

I think he adds a very solid set up man, like maybe Sewald.

Maybe some more depth additions like Criswell (not Anderson, hopefully.)

That could be it.

He almost has to trade an OF'er, even if Ref retires.

Brez made a lot of moves. On another thread I listed the 2023 end of season rosters, and the turnover was stunning. Now, that he has had a year to do his evaluations on who we got, I think some major changes happen. Likely not what I expect, but at least 2 bold moves.

Also getting back Giolito and Whitlock.

 

Dealing an OF is very dependent on how quickly they promote Anthony…