Red Sox: Off Season 2024-2025

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

2 hours ago, dgalehouse said:

There is not all that much difference between most of the teams. It doesn't take a whole lot of improvement to make the expanded playoffs. The biggest reason for last year's failure was that they blew too many leads. That is demoralizing to the fans and probably ,to some extent, to the players as well. Work on improving the bullpen. Chapman is a start, but more needs to be done.  Hendriks could help. I like Guerrero. . Add a couple more fireballers.  Just having a deeper, stronger bullpen would make a big difference. And it wouldn't break the bank or " decimate the farm". 

No doubt. But we all know that everything starts with the starts. How many years in a row has it been now that once Boston's shallow rotation broke down, the overuse of relievers led to more losses (notice there is no question mark -- it goes back to Matt Barnes, who was once an All-Star).

Beyond all the IL starters the Red Sox seem to stock, another factor that saps the pen is starters who constantly struggle to even go five innings. This major flaw isn't just on the pitchers, but either the front office, the coaching staff or both -- they recruit these fragile guys and decide how best/worst to use them.

Bottom line AGAIN: Improving the rotation improves the bullpen. INVEST IN TALENT. SPEND.

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

One of the GM's at the winter meetings told a reporter that Breslow was the most 'interested' GM at the meeting.

[Randy Red Sox]

4 hours ago, 5GoldGlovesOF,75 said:

No doubt. But we all know that everything starts with the starts. How many years in a row has it been now that once Boston's shallow rotation broke down, the overuse of relievers led to more losses (notice there is no question mark -- it goes back to Matt Barnes, who was once an All-Star).

Beyond all the IL starters the Red Sox seem to stock, another factor that saps the pen is starters who constantly struggle to even go five innings. This major flaw isn't just on the pitchers, but either the front office, the coaching staff or both -- they recruit these fragile guys and decide how best/worst to use them.

Bottom line AGAIN: Improving the rotation improves the bullpen. INVEST IN TALENT. SPEND.

Spending is against John Henry's religion

[Randy Red Sox]

On 12/19/2024 at 5:30 PM, moonslav59 said:

At this point, I'm just throwing things at the wall.

Of course, the best plan is to just spend, and then spend some more.

Burnes or Flaherty

Bregman or Teoscar (maybe Santander)

If we can't get one of the above, get one plus Hoffman, Scott, Manaea or Estevez.

or Grichuk and another rehabbing P

[SPLENDIDSPLINTER]

23 minutes ago, Randy Red Sox said:

or Grichuk and another rehabbing P

I recently heard that the SOX offered Pivetta 19 mil to be the #5 starter.

[Larry Cook]

41 minutes ago, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

I recently heard that the SOX offered Pivetta 19 mil to be the #5 starter.

Bres-slow should be fired if he put an offer on the table for pivetta!!!!

[moonslav59]

1 hour ago, Randy Red Sox said:

or Grichuk and another rehabbing P

That would be typical and  perhaps even likely.

[Larry Cook]

1.) Houck 

2.) crochet

3.) buelher 

4.) bello 

5.) Crawford or giolito (when he is healthy.)
 

I think bres-slow has improved the rotation and the depth! 

Is this a playoff rotation? 

[harmony]

On 12/22/2024 at 7:16 PM, SPLENDIDSPLINTER said:

I recently heard that the SOX offered Pivetta 19 mil to be the #5 starter.

Would anyone prefer Nick Pivetta at $19 million* over Walker Buehler at $21.05 million plus incentives?

* plus the loss of a compensatory draft pick at the end of the second round if Pivetta signed elsewhere 

[Bellhorn04]

7 hours ago, harmony said:

Would anyone prefer Nick Pivetta at $19 million* over Walker Buehler at $21.05 million plus incentives?

* plus the loss of a compensatory draft pick at the end of the second round if Pivetta signed elsewhere 

Some would prefer Pivetta, sure, because he's more of the Steady Eddie type who will give you 160 innings and a 2.5 fWAR.  Buehler OTOH has the potential to give us 5 fWAR but also the potential to spend at least half the year on the IL.  So pick your pleasure or your poison.  I like the Buehler signing, personally.

[Old Red]

7 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Some would prefer Pivetta, sure, because he's more of the Steady Eddie type who will give you 160 innings and a 2.5 fWAR.  Buehler OTOH has the potential to give us 5 fWAR but also the potential to spend at least half the year on the IL.  So pick your pleasure or your poison.  I like the Buehler signing, personally.

Did JH actually outbid the Dodgers for one of their own pitchers? Most likely the Red Sox were the highest bidders. Good sign, or Bad sign?

[Bellhorn04]

6 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Did JH actually outbid the Dodgers for one of their own pitchers? Most likely the Red Sox were the highest bidders. Good sign, or Bad sign?

The Dodgers have a pile of pitchers that they added to with Snell.  I was a little surprised they didn't bring back Buehler but I guess the math just didn't work.

[Old Red]

3 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

The Dodgers have a pile of pitchers that they added to with Snell.  I was a little surprised they didn't bring back Buehler but I guess the math just didn't work.

Seems like their math hasn’t worked out yet with Teoscar yet either.

[Bellhorn04]

24 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Seems like their math hasn’t worked out yet with Teoscar yet either.

Yeah, Teoscar is looking for his big payday, and why wouldn't he?

Probably just a question of whether he gets the $55-60 million deal or the $65-70 million deal.  

[mvp 78]

39 minutes ago, Old Red said:

Did JH actually outbid the Dodgers for one of their own pitchers? Most likely the Red Sox were the highest bidders. Good sign, or Bad sign?

The Dodgers rotation is Glasnow, Yamamoto, Snell, Stone, Gonsolin, Miller, May (LOL), Ohtani (???).

I think they signed Snell to replace Buehler's spot. 

[mvp 78]

53 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Some would prefer Pivetta, sure, because he's more of the Steady Eddie type who will give you 160 innings and a 2.5 fWAR.  Buehler OTOH has the potential to give us 5 fWAR but also the potential to spend at least half the year on the IL.  So pick your pleasure or your poison.  I like the Buehler signing, personally.

At least it's something different!

[mvp 78]

6 minutes ago, Bellhorn04 said:

Yeah, Teoscar is looking for his big payday, and why wouldn't he?

Probably just a question of whether he gets the $55-60 million deal or the $65-70 million deal.  

I don't understand the Conforto signing. Do they think his numbers will pop leaving SF? 

[mvp 78]

Just now, mvp 78 said:

I don't understand the Conforto signing. Do they think his numbers will pop leaving SF? 

*goes and checks his splits on FanGraphs*

Home at SF: 632 OPS

Away from SF: 852 OPS

Oh...

[Old Red]

22 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't understand the Conforto signing. Do they think his numbers will pop leaving SF? 

I guess the Dodgers just didn’t want to go 3yrs/$75M, or so with Teoscar, and he was a cheaper, shorter term solution.

[notin]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

The Dodgers rotation is Glasnow, Yamamoto, Snell, Stone, Gonsolin, Miller, May (LOL), Ohtani (???).

I think they signed Snell to replace Buehler's spot. 

They had to replace Buehler with Snell.  Otherwise that rotation would have lead MLB in sutures…

[Larry Cook]

Now that we have buehler signed for 2025, if pivetta’s market never develops, maybe then, he could be a good bullpen/starter guy for us. 

[notin]

1 hour ago, mvp 78 said:

I don't understand the Conforto signing. Do they think his numbers will pop leaving SF? 

.852 OPS on the road last year, as opposed to his .632 at home.  So, yes.

Not surprising splits for a lefty pull hitter in that ballpark in SF, with its deep Death Valley in RF.  

[notin]

3 minutes ago, Larry Cook said:

Now that we have buehler signed for 2025, if pivetta’s market never develops, maybe then, he could be a good bullpen/starter guy for us. 

Or he could replace Buehler should he go down before Sandoval is fully healed…

[notin]

On 12/22/2024 at 8:51 PM, Randy Red Sox said:

or Grichuk and another rehabbing P

If the Sox signed Grichuk to platoon in RF with Abreu, that would make sense.  Grichuk crushed LHP last year  and is a capable OF who’s played all 3 positions (and isn’t a defensive wasteland like Refsnyder).  Ramon Laureano also makes sense as a RF weak side platoon/4th outfielder.

Neither should be a full time starter in Boston.  But platooning with Abreu, who cannot hit LHP? They fill a NEED…

[moonslav59]

12 hours ago, Larry Cook said:

1.) Houck 

2.) crochet

3.) buelher 

4.) bello 

5.) Crawford or giolito (when he is healthy.)
 

I think bres-slow has improved the rotation and the depth! 

Is this a playoff rotation? 

Yes, if healthy, and if we don't have to go too far beyond starter number 6 or 7.

We still have piss-poor corner IF defense and will need 140+ games from Story at SS to help these pitchers not need to get 4 outs a few times a game.

We still need a big RHB or the kids to come through. We do have the okay to expect improvement from so many players  still pre-prime, too.

We still need a catcher, unless we like the excellent defense from Narvaez and are willing to maybe have a sub .600 batter to get it.

It may come down to our pen, which has a lot of promising pieces, some who were great, years ago, some who looked pretty good, recently and some young ones who were good, okay or shaky in 2024, but still have "the stuff" to not give up on. One major stumbling block might be that we have to cycle through 6-10 RP'ers to find the mix that works (if we ever do.) Pen depth is a very nice thing to have, but so is having a bonafide closer. Every ring year had one, although Uehara was not known to be one that prior winter. Whitlock could be the savior, as could Hendriks, Chapman or even Slaten, but none reek of being "the sure thing." I don't want to bring up the "Closer by committee" fiasco, but I just did.

Hendriks, Chapman, Whitlock, Slaten are the sure 4, if healthy and no significant age-related declines. Wink & Wilson probably have a slot reserved for them, unless they meltdown. The other two are up for grabs between 10+ guys (not counting starters Criswell, Priester, Fitts, Fulmer & Dobbins): Guerrero, Adams, Bernardino, Penrod, Kelly, Weissert, Shugart, Campbell, Mata, Mills and maybe, eventually, some AA arms like Sandlin, Early, Hoppe & Troye.

There is reason to be hopeful: I don't want to sound like the Grinch, but these rosters built on hopes are wearing me out.

 

[moonslav59]

15 minutes ago, notin said:

If the Sox signed Grichuk to platoon in RF with Abreu, that would make sense.  Grichuk crushed LHP last year  and is a capable OF who’s played all 3 positions (and isn’t a defensive wasteland like Refsnyder).  Ramon Laureano also makes sense as a RF weak side platoon/4th outfielder.

Neither should be a full time starter in Boston.  But platooning with Abreu, who cannot hit LHP? They fill a NEED…

Assuming Anthony is out of the picture, why not just do this and use Grichuk's money on a RP'er or catcher (via trade?)

vs RHP:
LF: Duran, CF: Rafaela, RF: Abreu (PH/4th: Refsnyder)

vs LHP:

LF: Refsnyder, CF: Duran, RF: Rafaela (PH/4th: Abreu)

[notin]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Assuming Anthony is out of the picture, why not just do this and use Grichuk's money on a RP'er or catcher (via trade?)

vs RHP:
LF: Duran, CF: Rafaela, RF: Abreu (PH/4th: Refsnyder)

vs LHP:

LF: Refsnyder, CF: Duran, RF: Rafaela (PH/4th: Abreu)

Because Refsnyder is worse at outfield defense than Stephen Hawking is at ballet. And just because Anthony isn’t starting in April doesn’t mean he is off out of the picture.

Platoon Yoshida at Ref at DH

Platoon Abreu and Grichuk in RF.  Until Anthony comes up at some point.

And yes, get a catcher !! (The Sox could trade Abreu for a catcher and solve this logjam as well.)

There is some merit to keeping Crawford in the rotation and moving Bello to the bullpen into a high leverage role.  But don’t post about out or else the guy who came up with it will let it go to his head…

[mvp 78]

1 hour ago, notin said:

.852 OPS on the road last year, as opposed to his .632 at home.  So, yes.

Not surprising splits for a lefty pull hitter in that ballpark in SF, with its deep Death Valley in RF.  

Good stat. I should put it in a post. 

[notin]

18 minutes ago, mvp 78 said:

Good stat. I should put it in a post. 

You did leave out the extremely unoriginal Death Valley image…

[notin]

1 hour ago, moonslav59 said:

Yes, if healthy, and if we don't have to go too far beyond starter number 6 or 7.

We still have piss-poor corner IF defense and will need 140+ games from Story at SS to help these pitchers not need to get 4 outs a few times a game.

We still need a big RHB or the kids to come through. We do have the okay to expect improvement from so many players  still pre-prime, too.

We still need a catcher, unless we like the excellent defense from Narvaez and are willing to maybe have a sub .600 batter to get it.

It may come down to our pen, which has a lot of promising pieces, some who were great, years ago, some who looked pretty good, recently and some young ones who were good, okay or shaky in 2024, but still have "the stuff" to not give up on. One major stumbling block might be that we have to cycle through 6-10 RP'ers to find the mix that works (if we ever do.) Pen depth is a very nice thing to have, but so is having a bonafide closer. Every ring year had one, although Uehara was not known to be one that prior winter. Whitlock could be the savior, as could Hendriks, Chapman or even Slaten, but none reek of being "the sure thing." I don't want to bring up the "Closer by committee" fiasco, but I just did.

Hendriks, Chapman, Whitlock, Slaten are the sure 4, if healthy and no significant age-related declines. Wink & Wilson probably have a slot reserved for them, unless they meltdown. The other two are up for grabs between 10+ guys (not counting starters Criswell, Priester, Fitts, Fulmer & Dobbins): Guerrero, Adams, Bernardino, Penrod, Kelly, Weissert, Shugart, Campbell, Mata, Mills and maybe, eventually, some AA arms like Sandlin, Early, Hoppe & Troye.

There is reason to be hopeful: I don't want to sound like the Grinch, but these rosters built on hopes are wearing me out.

 

The “closer by committee” is right up there with beer and chicken along side “bridge year” as the most ridiculous controversies in recent years.  The committee was Chad Fox.  And no one else.  Just Fox.

But as Fox was an inconsistent pitcher capable of highs and lows, if the Sox said “Chad Fox is our closer,” many would have thought “but he sucks!! He’s wildly inconsistent!!” And they’d have been right.  But since the Sox called it “closer by committee”, it then impugned an entire strategy that can actually work pretty well, and everyone ignored that the committee was just Chad Fox…