Trades?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

He's right though. We have folks talking about who to sell at the deadline not long after the season starts. It doesn't mean they're bad people. It's about the teams the Sox keep putting together.

 

And after the fact we have a lot of lamenting about not selling off in 2022 etc.

 

It's just a depressing state of affairs all around.

 

Yes -- this forum has become a place where good people are just sick of rooting for bad teams.

 

The Red Sox aren't terrible, but the front office has been terrible assembling complete teams the past half decade -- especially when we all know they have the resources to overcome terrible holes on the roster: one year it's the bullpen, the next it's the rotation, then it's the defense (which can make even the most casual fan stop watching)...

 

... but ultimately, it's been an offense that strikes out way too much up and down an unbalanced batting order to ever mount any kind of consistent winning streak that can boost a mediocre club into contention.

 

I could care less if Bloom or Breslow deal veterans on expiring contracts in July for more farm depth. The Sox really need a blockbuster trade -- a deal for a foundational star position player or pitcher who can help turn the organization around, even spearhead a rebuild, and generate tepid interest into excitement again.

 

Stop waiting for a future that may never materialize to make appreciable changes.

[moonslav59]

I think what happened in 2022 is part of the perils of being mediocre in the 12 team playoffs era. I was against selling in 2022 because I thought we had a shot at the playoffs. Same thing last year.

 

Arizona made the WS last year with 84 wins and a minus 15 run differential.

 

This is what Manfred wants.

 

I have no beef with fans who felt we had a shot and should not have been sellers.

I thought we should have sold.

[moonslav59]

Every player you " sell off " has to be replaced just to stay where you are. Then you can start to think about improving.

 

The players all would have needed replacing a couple months later, anyway.

 

The thought is tge players we get back in trades May someday be cheap but significant replacements for the new t group you sell until you get to a point where you are too good to even consider selling.

 

Getting nothing has been one of three major factors in us not getting to that point. The other two biggest factors are making poor choices on those we sign and cutting spending.

 

Add those three things and we prolong the day when we all think we should be buyers.

[Dipre]

Why come to a baseball discussion forum to discuss baseball related matters? Honest question.

[moonslav59]

Honest question.

 

To whom?

[Bellhorn04]

Why come to a baseball discussion forum to discuss baseball related matters? Honest question.

 

No it's not. It's loaded with ulterior meanings and agendas!!!

[Dipre]

No it's not. It's loaded with ulterior meanings and agendas!!!

 

These damn whippersnappers and their Wxyz- and their ERA% and all of their nonsense!

[Larry Cook]

I have no beef with fans who felt we had a shot and should not have been sellers.

I thought we should have sold.

 

I know this team is playing way over their heads now, and we dance close to wild card position, but this is the year to sell!!! We got 3 maybe 4 (Martin) assets that should bring quality arms !

 

I think what Cora has done this year is amazing all things considered

[moonslav59]

I know this team is playing way over their heads now, and we dance close to wild card position, but this is the year to sell!!! We got 3 maybe 4 (Martin) assets that should bring quality arms !

 

I think what Cora has done this year is amazing all things considered

 

Time will tell, and we should know more in 6 weeks.

[mvp 78]

I know this team is playing way over their heads now, and we dance close to wild card position, but this is the year to sell!!! We got 3 maybe 4 (Martin) assets that should bring quality arms !

 

I think what Cora has done this year is amazing all things considered

 

How?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Time will tell, and we should know more in 6 weeks.

 

It's not early anymore. Solstice was 3:50 PM last night.

 

Boston is as good as Kansas City, Minnesota, and right now, Cleveland, Seattle and New York.

 

The running Red Sox have picked a lane for Craig Breslow. Summer's here and the time is right for racing in the streets.

[Dipre]

All while not having arguably two of their three best hitters.

[Hugh2]

There's still plenty of time to suck and sell off, but if the trade deadline was tonight, team looking to get key players back plus being right inthe playoff hunt and playing well lately says they need to be buyers.

 

Problem is, one of the things I'd really want this team to buy seemingly is NOT available at the deadline. I want a RHH short stop, or really even just a good short stop. Correct me if I'm wrong but there don't seem to be any rentals available who fit that description, and I wouldn't want to pay the premium on a guy with control seeing how the system is flush with up the middle talent perculating it's way up the system.

 

In another universe I'd love to target a guy such as Willy Adames, he has a good bat and would add plus defense at SS and help set this defense. Will be a free agent at the end of the year so he shouldn't cost as much, and I think Milwaukee has some good young IF talent to replace him with. But, they're 1st in their division with playoff ambitions.....he's not for sale.

 

Of course, another Starting pitcher and a reliever can always come in handy. Those SHOULD be available.

 

This is why Breslow gets paid the big bucks.

[moonslav59]

It's not early anymore. Solstice was 3:50 PM last night.

 

Boston is as good as Kansas City, Minnesota, and right now, Cleveland, Seattle and New York.

 

The running Red Sox have picked a lane for Craig Breslow. Summer's here and the time is right for racing in the streets.

 

A lot can happen in the next 5-6 weeks: good or bad or meh.

 

I'm certainly feeling more optimistic about 2024 than any other time in over a year, but we know we will hit some snags, going forward. It's how long those snags last, and how we react to them that will tell the full story, when this season is finished.

 

Before the season started, I probably felt there was a 90% chance I'd be on the "Sell, Sell, SELL Bandwagon" by the end of July. That number slowly creeped downward, until the PHI series to now brought it down more quickly. I'd say, I'm somewhere around the 50-50 mark, but it depends on what people consider us as "Buyers" means. I'm not really for trading for rentals, unless it is with players that have little or no future with the Sox anyway, and for the most part, that means not really being serious buyers. I'm thinking Wink, McGuire and maybe Romy might be the top players I might deal w ML experience, and for prospects, maybe Bleis plus 2-3 from Meidroth, Castro, Lugo and Paulino type prospects. Trading Bleis for a rental might be too much for me, even,

 

You rarely see young to pre-prime pitchers with 3+ years of experience traded at the deadline, and that is the type of deal I'd really like. (Those are made in winter.) A trade for a 27-30 year old established SP'er who would agree to an extension at a reasonable FA market rate for 3-4 years would be something I'd like.

 

While I think we could use a big RHB, I don't see how it fits, unless the guy plays 2B or SS, and nobody has yet named a player who fits that need and should be available at the deadline.

 

Our pen looks fine, but adding an arm there might be nice, but at what cost?

 

Maybe I'm too invested in our future to see the light on 2024. Sox teams in the past have surprised me, like 2013 and 2021, but in both of those cases, we pretty much all knew we should not be sellers. I guess there is a first time for everything.

[moonslav59]

All while not having arguably two of their three best hitters.

 

That might be the most shocking part of all.

 

Add to that missing what appeared to be two of our top 3-4 (maybe 5) SP'ers just about all year only adds to the amazement. The Martin issue has also added to the wonder at how we have done this.

[mvp 78]

It's not early anymore. Solstice was 3:50 PM last night.

 

Boston is as good as Kansas City, Minnesota, and right now, Cleveland, Seattle and New York.

 

The running Red Sox have picked a lane for Craig Breslow. Summer's here and the time is right for racing in the streets.

 

Buddy have I got some bad news for you.

 

According to the National Weather Service, the summer solstice will occur on Thursday at 4:51 p.m. Eastern time.

 

We had a work happy hour to celebrate it.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Silver linings:

 

-- losing Story was bad for the D, but I never wanted to see him batting third in the line-up... instead we have Wong hitting .330 and Hamilton closing in on the league lead in stolen bases.

 

-- losing Giolito allowed Houck to emerge as staff ace and a probable All-Star selection.

 

-- losing Casas depleted the power, but allowed Cora and his staff to rely more on team speed, a key in the Sox' first hot streak of the season.

 

-- Cora "resting" any regulars -- giving a scheduled day off -- drives fans crazy... but it's really just semantics; ballplayers are always banged up, and always play with nagging injuries, but managers are too smart to risk divulging secrets when they grant time off for wounds to heal... even if it's just for swelling to subside for a day.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Buddy have I got some bad news for you.

 

According to the National Weather Service, the summer solstice will occur on Thursday at 4:51 p.m. Eastern time.

 

We had a work happy hour to celebrate it.

 

Some happy peeps in Central time were already hammered by 4:51.

[moonslav59]

-- losing Casas depleted the power, but allowed Cora and his staff to rely more on team speed, a key in the Sox' first hot streak of the season.

 

Loved your other silver linings, but Dalbec, Cooper and DSmith have not added much of anything to any aspect of the game.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Loved your other silver linings, but Dalbec, Cooper and DSmith have not added much of anything to any aspect of the game.

 

How much would you give up for Pete Alsono? He's a right-handed hitting rental, age 29, and averages 45 home runs per 162 -- half of which were never at Fenway Pahk...

 

Before someone complains: "Wherever would we put him?" -- how about right after Rafael Devers in the batting order.

[moonslav59]

How much would you give up for Pete Alsono? He's a right-handed hitting rental, age 29, and averages 45 home runs per 162 -- half of which were never at Fenway Pahk...

 

Before someone complains: "Wherever would we put him?" -- how about right after Rafael Devers in the batting order.

 

I'm not giving a top 10 prospects, but might give a couple 11-30 prospects.

 

Yes, he'd fit into our line-up nicely, but he'd DH instead of Ref, who is our best better vs LHPs over the last 3 years. We do have room for Ref in the OF v LHPs, but with so many lefty OF'ers, we'd have to bench Duran, Abreu or Ref/Rafaela/O'Neill in the OF vs RHPs.

 

Is the gain worth what we give up?

 

I guess it depends on what we give up. Paulino & Hickey, sure. E R-C and Yorke? Maybe not.

[notin]

I'm not giving a top 10 prospects, but might give a couple 11-30 prospects.

 

Yes, he'd fit into our line-up nicely, but he'd DH instead of Ref, who is our best better vs LHPs over the last 3 years. We do have room for Ref in the OF v LHPs, but with so many lefty OF'ers, we'd have to bench Duran, Abreu or Ref/Rafaela/O'Neill in the OF vs RHPs.

 

Is the gain worth what we give up?

 

I guess it depends on what we give up. Paulino & Hickey, sure. E R-C and Yorke? Maybe not.

 

 

BTV gives Alonso a surplus trade value of 6.3. Wikelman Gonzalez has a surplus trade value of 5.7.

 

Even if Willie isn’t the mark, this should give some perspective…

[mvp 78]

BTV gives Alonso a surplus trade value of 6.3. Wikelman Gonzalez has a surplus trade value of 5.7.

 

Even if Willie isn’t the mark, this should give some perspective…

 

I can't imagine Wikelman's value is still that high after this year.

[notin]

I can't imagine Wikelman's value is still that high after this year.

 

Maybe not, but the point being Alonso isn’t a farm buster.

 

Of course, what he does seem to be is a very unpleasant human being…

[mvp 78]

Maybe not, but the point being Alonso isn’t a farm buster.

 

Of course, what he does seem to be is a very unpleasant human being…

 

Half of a year of Alonso should be reasonable. Aside from Sandlin, I don't think I'd give up a top 10 prospect in a trade for him.

[Larry Cook]

I wonder if O’Neil has created value thus far this year. Yes he has been injured, but would a contender part with 2 prospects in the 15-25 range for him???? Hello Seattle????

 

Jansen and Martin to the Phillies for two prospects in the 15-25 range?????

 

Pivetta to the royals for a prospect in the 15-20 range????

[moonslav59]

Half of a year of Alonso should be reasonable. Aside from Sandlin, I don't think I'd give up a top 10 prospect in a trade for him.

 

It’s hard to have a strong opinion on Sandlin, but with such a lack of strong pitching prospects, I’m sticking to my no top 10 opinion. I would trade Wikelman and Roger’s for him.

[moonslav59]

I wonder if O’Neil has created value thus far this year. Yes he has been injured, but would a contender part with 2 prospects in the 15-25 range for him???? Hello Seattle????

 

Jansen and Martin to the Phillies for two prospects in the 15-25 range?????

 

Pivetta to the royals for a prospect in the 15-20 range????

 

I think Jansen and Pivetta can get an average team’s 10-18 prospect, and O’Neill a 12-22 one. Martin is unknown, as of now but could get a 12-22 or 18-30 depending

[mvp 78]

I wonder if O’Neil has created value thus far this year. Yes he has been injured, but would a contender part with 2 prospects in the 15-25 range for him???? Hello Seattle????

 

Jansen and Martin to the Phillies for two prospects in the 15-25 range?????

 

Pivetta to the royals for a prospect in the 15-20 range????

 

2 prospects for O'Neilll? A team would have to be pretty hard up for him. Also, the Sox really enjoy having his bat in the lineup.

 

Jansen and Martin combined have a much higher trade value than O'Neilll IMO, Pivetta too.

[Hugh2]

2 prospects for O'Neilll? A team would have to be pretty hard up for him. Also, the Sox really enjoy having his bat in the lineup.

 

Jansen and Martin combined have a much higher trade value than O'Neilll IMO, Pivetta too.

 

Given O'Neil's history of being an all star level player when 100% healthy, if he is again playing that way and it's only a rental I can see him getting a rentals ransom....a good rental. Teams will overpay at the deadline. Not sure we could get a top 100 prospect for him, but a guy who is on the fringe who has the upside to blossom? I can certainly see that. Maybe. But at this point they shouldn't sell, although they're one bad losing streak away from being sellers.