A Realistic View of 2024: Part II

[notin]

In general, the Sox are beating the bad teams and losing to the good teams. They are stuck in the mediocre middle. I do see some potential for improvement, but it gets a little tiresome hearing how things look better next year. Especially when you hear that year after year.

 

I think the Sox have also done well against some good teams, with a road split against 20-17 Seattle and a series win at home against 22-16 Chicago.

 

I'm on board with this team being able to improve. But their lack of depth could be a killer...

[mvp 78]

Joe Sewell was another HOF player who had an elite ability to make contact. In 8,333 career PA, he struck out 114 times for a 1.3% K rate. Granted, his offensive numbers for the rest of his game were not as pedestrian as former MVP Fox...

 

A 94 OPS+ is pedestrian?!?!?

[notin]

A 94 OPS+ is pedestrian?!?!?

 

 

I'd say so. It's just below league average by definition.

 

And his OPS was dragged down significantly because the diminutive Fox had almost no power with a career .363 SLG. His BA (.288) and OBP (.348) were actually very good over his career. What little "power" he had was probably more related to speed, since he had 112 career triples and only 35 career home runs. And he has to be on a very short list of players who had a season with more triples than strikeouts...

[mvp 78]

I'd say so. It's just below league average by definition.

 

And his OPS was dragged down significantly because the diminutive Fox had almost no power with a career .363 SLG. His BA (.288) and OBP (.348) were actually very good over his career. What little "power" he had was probably more related to speed, since he had 112 career triples and only 35 career home runs. And he has to be on a very short list of players who had a season with more triples than strikeouts...

 

Having more triples than strikeouts is rare?!?!?

[notin]

Having more triples than strikeouts is rare?!?!?

 

You don't think so?

 

I can name four players who have done it since 1900. Fox (1951), Musial (1943), Dale Mitchell (1949) and Joe Sewell (1925 and 1930).

 

There might be others, but this is not something that anyone accomplishes very often...

[notin]

You don't think so?

 

I can name four players who have done it since 1900. Fox (1951), Musial (1943), Dale Mitchell (1949) and Joe Sewell (1925 and 1930).

 

There might be others, but this is not something that anyone accomplishes very often...

 

I apparently forgot about the champion of tripling more often than striking out - Tris Speaker. He accomplished it 3 times (1918, 1921, 1927), all with Cleveland. He also had two seasons where he had the same number of triples as strikeouts (1913, 1919).

 

But I am sticking by this being a rare accomplishment. Any more questions?

[moonslav59]

Mookie should have been extended before 2019 ever got here...

 

True, but even beyond Mookie, we had a weak looking farm that produced only Houck between Devers and bello/Casas. We had aging players. We had players nearing the end of arbs.

 

Had we kept Betts and the same budgets after 2019, our future would still not looked too good.

[notin]

True, but even beyond Mookie, we had a weak looking farm that produced only Houck between Devers and bello/Casas. We had aging players. We had players nearing the end of arbs.

 

Had we kept Betts and the same budgets after 2019, our future would still not looked too good.

 

It would have Betts in it, which makes for a significant improvement. Right now all that we have left from that deal is Wong, along with Fitts, Weissert and Giudice. Weissert has been good and Fitts is the top pitching prospect, but is their combination superior to Betts?

[Bellhorn04]

True, but even beyond Mookie, we had a weak looking farm that produced only Houck between Devers and bello/Casas. We had aging players. We had players nearing the end of arbs.

 

Had we kept Betts and the same budgets after 2019, our future would still not looked too good.

 

But better than having Devers's extension and the same budgets.

[moonslav59]

It would have Betts in it, which makes for a significant improvement. Right now all that we have left from that deal is Wong, along with Fitts, Weissert and Giudice. Weissert has been good and Fitts is the top pitching prospect, but is their combination superior to Betts?

 

Yes, better but still lacking in brightness.

 

We spent much of the "saved money" of Betts and Price and failures, so we certainly would have been better. I'm just saying after 2019 and 2020, even with Betts, our future would not have looked all that bright.

[moonslav59]

But better than having Devers's extension and the same budgets.

 

Of course. No argument here.

 

I was the guy willing to pay $400M/14 (pre-COVID) for Betts.

[mvp 78]

You don't think so?

 

I can name four players who have done it since 1900. Fox (1951), Musial (1943), Dale Mitchell (1949) and Joe Sewell (1925 and 1930).

 

There might be others, but this is not something that anyone accomplishes very often...

 

5 times over the past 125 years isn't very often?!?!?

[mvp 78]

I apparently forgot about the champion of tripling more often than striking out - Tris Speaker. He accomplished it 3 times (1918, 1921, 1927), all with Cleveland. He also had two seasons where he had the same number of triples as strikeouts (1913, 1919).

 

But I am sticking by this being a rare accomplishment. Any more questions?

 

Doing it more than any other player in history makes him the champion of it?!?!?

[notin]

Doing it more than any other player in history makes him the champion of it?!?!?

 

Are we going to question everything?

[Bellhorn04]

Are we going to question everything?

 

Consistently taking mvp seriously is questionable indeed.

[notin]

5 times over the past 125 years isn't very often?!?!?

 

8 times. You're questioning skills are getting premature. You need to calm down. Maybe just ask yourself a bunch of questions about yourself before you go all in with that loaded weapon. Or try thinking about baseball...

[notin]

Consistently taking mvp seriously is questionable indeed.

 

Hey it lead to some interesting research on my part, although I wanted him to add to my list.

 

I can't give him a passing grade for this exchange until he does...

[mvp 78]

Are we going to question everything?

 

A 94 OPS+ is pedestrian?!?!?

[mvp 78]

Hey it lead to some interesting research on my part, although I wanted him to add to my list.

 

I can't give him a passing grade for this exchange until he does...

 

There's no chance I'm doing a lick of research on this one.

[notin]

There's no chance I'm doing a lick of research on this one.

 

I think that got obvious...

[Maxbialystock]

I apparently forgot about the champion of tripling more often than striking out - Tris Speaker. He accomplished it 3 times (1918, 1921, 1927), all with Cleveland. He also had two seasons where he had the same number of triples as strikeouts (1913, 1919).

 

But I am sticking by this being a rare accomplishment. Any more questions?

 

I'm amazed even one player went an entire season in which he had more triples than K's. It is in fact a rare accomplishment.

[Maxbialystock]

I think the Sox have also done well against some good teams, with a road split against 20-17 Seattle and a series win at home against 22-16 Chicago.

 

I'm on board with this team being able to improve. But their lack of depth could be a killer...

 

I wish I could agree with you, but those two Atlanta games showed me just how sorry the Sox hitting is.

 

In 37 games they've scored 164 runs, ranked 14th in MLB. That's pretty weak, but it's actually worse because the 17 runs scored against the Cubs--which includes 6 runs scored off an infielder pitching in the 9th--skews the Sox scoring. We should subtract 12 of those 17 runs, declare the total runs scored to be 152 runs, and recognize that the Sox offense is actually the 21st best in MLB.

[jad]

There's no chance I'm doing a lick of research on this one.

 

Gotta say, I totally agree. This is a sports board, not a chemical engineering conference. If someone is willing to spend time researching every detail of baseball history: (1) that's fine, and (2) that's on them!

[notin]

I wish I could agree with you, but those two Atlanta games showed me just how sorry the Sox hitting is.

 

In 37 games they've scored 164 runs, ranked 14th in MLB. That's pretty weak, but it's actually worse because the 17 runs scored against the Cubs--which includes 6 runs scored off an infielder pitching in the 9th--skews the Sox scoring. We should subtract 12 of those 17 runs, declare the total runs scored to be 152 runs, and recognize that the Sox offense is actually the 21st best in MLB.

 

 

Don't you think some of those other teams have also scored against non-pitchers? It might be unfair to penalize the Sox for something multiple teams have done this year.

 

For example, Oakland put 20 runs on the Marlins last week, including a few against Emmanual Rivera, normally a third baseman. Arizona put a couple runs up against some 4th string shortstop on the Giants back in April. I assume a few other teams have as well...

[notin]

I'm amazed even one player went an entire season in which he had more triples than K's. It is in fact a rare accomplishment.

 

One thing that might be rarer is a player with more home run than singles. McGwire and Bonds both accomplished that feat in their record-setting home run seasons. McGwire actually did it multiple times. But not sure if anyone else did....

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Fox's stats were so whelming that when announcers looked at his baseball.ref page, they invented the phrase, "Whoa, Nellie!"

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

One thing that might be rarer is a player with more home run than singles. McGwire and Bonds both accomplished that feat in their record-setting home run seasons. McGwire actually did it multiple times. But not sure if anyone else did....

 

My buddies and I did it in reverse, back in the '80s on Date Night. Lots of singles, few home runs. Nobody remembered us.

[Bellhorn04]

One thing that might be rarer is a player with more home run than singles. McGwire and Bonds both accomplished that feat in their record-setting home run seasons. McGwire actually did it multiple times. But not sure if anyone else did....

 

On the flip side is Joey Gallo, who's had more strikeouts than total bases 3 years in a row.

[notin]

On the flip side is Joey Gallo, who's had more strikeouts than total bases 3 years in a row.

 

Dalbec has done that every year since 2020...

[mvp 78]

Dalbec has done that every year since 2020...

 

Double check 2021. It's total bases, not hits.