A Realistic View of 2024: Part II

[notin]

Sale was DD's big whiff, but all the rest are on the Bloom/Breslow watch... and here's the thing: besides Yoshida (who someone upstairs thought was a smaaht idea), ALL the rest arguably do reflect how cheap JH has become:

 

Cutting corners by signing reclamation projects for the rotation (that few other clubs were interested in), recruiting a shortstop replacement so they didn't have to pay more to keep the incumbent (who they could insult with a lowball offer, to ensure his exit), even the Kike extension -- which apparently excused them from signing a legitimate shortstop and sabotaged the first half of 2023.

 

Price wasn’t exactly a feather in DD’s cap.

 

Really he was good with free agent hitters, not so good with free agent pitchers…

[notin]

Sale was DD's big whiff, but all the rest are on the Bloom/Breslow watch... and here's the thing: besides Yoshida (who someone upstairs thought was a smaaht idea), ALL the rest arguably do reflect how cheap JH has become:

 

Cutting corners by signing reclamation projects for the rotation (that few other clubs were interested in), recruiting a shortstop replacement so they didn't have to pay more to keep the incumbent (who they could insult with a lowball offer, to ensure his exit), even the Kike extension -- which apparently excused them from signing a legitimate shortstop and sabotaged the first half of 2023.

 

There are plenty of examples, but this feels like a stretch. Kike was extended long before there was any need for a shortstop, and was extended for much more than most of the stopgap shortstops received. That whole situation was a huge flop by Bloom, who was allowed to sign/acquire a shortstop, and he decided on Adalberto Mondesi, who still has yet to suit up for action…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

There are plenty of examples, but this feels like a stretch. Kike was extended long before there was any need for a shortstop, and was extended for much more than most of the stopgap shortstops received. That whole situation was a huge flop by Bloom, who was allowed to sign/acquire a shortstop, and he decided on Adalberto Mondesi, who still has yet to suit up for action…

 

Knowing what we've seen with the FO the past half-decade, is it really a stretch when you consider the bold-faced part of your reply? After someone upstairs thought it was a good idea to pay their jack of all knives, is it unreasonable to assume that when the SS need arose, that those with the budget just said, "sorry, we're tapped -- going to have use Kike there"?

[Bellhorn04]

The Sox did manage to draw fans during that 1918-2004 gap somehow…

 

In 1966, the last year before the ID season, they averaged about 10,000 a game, 8th out of 10 AL teams. 1967 famously revived the franchise.

[Bellhorn04]

Anyone who spends more money just because the value of his home has increased is a fool.

 

You sound suspiciously like a front office plant.

[Bellhorn04]

Price wasn’t exactly a feather in DD’s cap.

 

Really he was good with free agent hitters, not so good with free agent pitchers…

 

There was nothing wrong with the Price signing. He looked like a rock solid choice at the time. We won 3 division titles and a World Series in his first 3 seasons with us. What happened after that was basically the cost of doing business. IMHO.

[Old Red]

There was nothing wrong with the Price signing. He looked like a rock solid choice at the time. We won 3 division titles and a World Series in his first 3 seasons with us. What happened after that was basically the cost of doing business. IMHO.

 

If they would have signed Lester instead of lowballing him there wouldn’t have been a Price signing in the first place.

[Bellhorn04]

If they would have signed Lester instead of lowballing him there wouldn’t have been a Price signing in the first place.

 

That 4 year/$70 million opening "offer" to Lester was a sign of things to come.

[mvp 78]

Price wasn’t exactly a feather in DD’s cap.

 

Really he was good with free agent hitters, not so good with free agent pitchers…

 

He was fine from 16-18.

[Old Red]

He was fine from 16-18.

 

They could have had Lester for half the cost.

[Bellhorn04]

They could have had Lester for half the cost.

 

At least in this case we can say we came out alright in the sense that we won a ring with Price. Jon of course won another ring with the Cubs.

[mvp 78]

They could have had Lester for half the cost.

 

Uh huh. DD wasn't the guy who let Lester go.

[Old Red]

Uh huh. DD wasn't the guy who let Lester go.

 

Everyone knows it was JH who let Lester go from visiting Lester at his house to saying goodbye out in the parking lot. Signing Price, and lowballing Lester was negotiated by DD, but most likely approved by JH, which was weird considering Lester could have come at half the cost.

Edited June 4, 2024 by Old Red

[Bellhorn04]

Everyone knows it was JH who let Lester go from visiting Lester at his house to saying goodbye out in the parking lot. Signing Price, and lowballing Lester was negotiated by DD, but most likely approved by JH, which was weird considering Lester could have come at half the cost.

 

Ben was CBO for the Lester fiasco. It is a little hard to keep track of the timeline for our revolving door of CBOs.

[mvp 78]

Everyone knows it was JH who let Lester go from visiting Lester at his house to saying goodbye out in the parking lot. Signing Price, and lowballing Lester was negotiated by DD, but most likely approved by JH, which was weird considering Lester could have come at half the cost.

 

What the hell are you talking about? Lester was traded in 2014 before DD even showed up.

[Old Red]

Ben was CBO for the Lester fiasco. It is a little hard to keep track of the timeline for our revolving door of CBOs.

 

Right, and thanks for the correction. Most of the talk most of the time is centered around DD, Bloom, and now Brez.

[notin]

There was nothing wrong with the Price signing. He looked like a rock solid choice at the time. We won 3 division titles and a World Series in his first 3 seasons with us. What happened after that was basically the cost of doing business. IMHO.

 

I never liked it.

 

He was 31 and signed for 7 years. Best the Six could hope for was he would reach the opt out unharmed after 3 seasons. He didn’t…

[Old Red]

What the hell are you talking about? Lester was traded in 2014 before DD even showed up.

 

It’s already been corrected, but thanks for your shoutout anyway.

[mvp 78]

Ben was CBO for the Lester fiasco. It is a little hard to keep track of the timeline for our revolving door of CBOs.

 

I'd like to give him the credit for misremembering, but nah...

[mvp 78]

I never liked it.

 

He was 31 and signed for 7 years. Best the Six could hope for was he would reach the opt out unharmed after 3 seasons. He didn’t…

 

At least you can admit your bias.

[mvp 78]

It’s already been corrected, but thanks for your shoutout anyway.

 

If I had to correct your posts, I'd have 23,839 more posts. I'll leave that to the professionals.

[Bellhorn04]

I never liked it.

 

He was 31 and signed for 7 years. Best the Six could hope for was he would reach the opt out unharmed after 3 seasons. He didn’t…

 

Didn't care for the 3 division titles and the ring?

[notin]

Didn't care for the 3 division titles and the ring?

 

Just how key was Price? He was a 1.5-2.5 fWAR pitcher after the first year of the deal during the years he did pitch. Not exactly irreplaceable. Was he worth the $31mill? And do you suppose that contract had any influence on Henry’s newfound tight-fisted ways?

 

Why do you rate Price by the accomplishments of the team and players like Yoshida and Grissom as individual products of their stars?

[Old Red]

If I had to correct your posts, I'd have 23,839 more posts. I'll leave that to the professionals.

 

Thanks for the correction. Hell I’d forgotten he had even been traded.

[mvp 78]

Just how key was Price? He was a 1.5-2.5 fWAR pitcher after the first year of the deal during the years he did pitch. Not exactly irreplaceable. Was he worth the $31mill? And do you suppose that contract had any influence on Henry’s newfound tight-fisted ways?

 

Why do you rate Price by the accomplishments of the team and players like Yoshida and Grissom as individual products of their stars?

 

He was tightfisted BEFORE he signed Price! Are you forgetting that he lowballed Lester? Are you forgetting all the players they dumped from the 2004 lineup? How about the cameo at the end of Moneyball where he was courting Billy Beane because he wanted to solely save money?

[Bellhorn04]

Just how key was Price? He was a 1.5-2.5 fWAR pitcher after the first year of the deal during the years he did pitch. Not exactly irreplaceable. Was he worth the $31mill? And do you suppose that contract had any influence on Henry’s newfound tight-fisted ways?

 

Why do you rate Price by the accomplishments of the team and players like Yoshida and Grissom as individual products of their stars?

 

I'll take Price's WAR over Yoshida's and Grissom's, thank you very much!

 

Plus Price did come through big in the 2018 postseason. We might have had a problem without him, yes...

[mvp 78]

Didn't care for the 3 division titles and the ring?

 

He watched every Price start and said "Yuck."

[notin]

He was tightfisted BEFORE he signed Price! Are you forgetting that he lowballed Lester? Are you forgetting all the players they dumped from the 2004 lineup? How about the cameo at the end of Moneyball where he was courting Billy Beane because he wanted to solely save money?

 

He was cyclically tight-fisted. Spend for two years, dial back for one. The payroll did get higher than $240mil at one point, not an easy accomplishment if one is tight-fisted…

 

Not sure why Lester was the only SP affected by their sudden aversion to pitchers over 30z

[mvp 78]

DD was a good drafter though. He got us Casas.

 

@ChrisCotillo

Former Red Sox first-round pick Jay Groome given a one-year suspension for betting on baseball (no games he played in) while a minor leaguer with the Sox in 2020 and 2021.

[moonslav59]

Sale was DD's big whiff, but all the rest are on the Bloom/Breslow watch... and here's the thing: besides Yoshida (who someone upstairs thought was a smaaht idea), ALL the rest arguably do reflect how cheap JH has become:

 

Cutting corners by signing reclamation projects for the rotation (that few other clubs were interested in), recruiting a shortstop replacement so they didn't have to pay more to keep the incumbent (who they could insult with a lowball offer, to ensure his exit), even the Kike extension -- which apparently excused them from signing a legitimate shortstop and sabotaged the first half of 2023.

 

I'd argue Yoshida was a signing based on the lower downs. It was our scouts that loved this guy since he was like 6 years old.

 

The Price signing was not a success, but at least he gave some value for 2+ years. That $217M blew away all other Sox deals, even the Sale extension.

 

It's easy to imagine affording Betts had we not spent on Price or Sale, but with all DD did, I'm not going to roast him for those two signings. He did a great job, and actually ended up providing us with some good young players after the 5 year gap between Devers and Houck/Duran.

 

The shear number of big contract deals DD made dwarfs what Bloom & Brez have done combined. Ben and DD had almost all the big deals. When I bring up $10M spent on Kike, Richards and Kluber- all one year deals as some of the biggest deals since DD left, that pretty much sums up the difference.

 

Even the Barnes, Jansen and Martin deals pale to those DD made.

 

Here are the major signings/extensions since Ben:

 

Ben=Blue

DD=Green

Bloom=Red

 

313/10 Devers '24 (extended by Bloom)

217/7 Price '16

154/7 Agon '12

145/5 Sale '20 (signed by DD)

140/6 Story '22

120/6 Bogey '20 (w opt out by DD)

110/5 JD '18

110/8 Pedey '14

95/5 Pablito '14

90/5 Yoshida '23

88/4 HRam '14

83/4 Porcello '16 (extended by Ben)

73/7 Rusney '14

68/4 Nate '19

 

Mid rangers (note: none by DD):

39/2 Giolito '24 (The only Brez move on this list)

39/3 Vic '13

32/2 Napoli '14

32/2 Jansen '23

30/4 Buchholz '12

27/2 Dempster '13

26/2 Ortiz '14

21/2 J Turner '23 (opted out)

19/2 Barnes '22

18/2 Martin '23

 

Pretty striking breakdown, if you ask me.

 

24 deals listed (Did I miss one?)

11 by Ben (6 of the big 14)

5 by DD (all from the big 14 and most notably, 4 of the top 6 in Sox history)

6 by Bloom, but just 3 in the top 14 and 3 in the top 21 ($25M or more)

 

Of the 16 deals of $35M+

7 Ben

5 DD

3 Bloom

1 Brez

 

 

Edited June 4, 2024 by moonslav59