Red Sox ownership

[a700hitter]

Also the Phillies are spending at levels Sox’ fans have never seen. Their current roster has 7 players making $20mill or more. The current Sox roster has two…

And the Philly fans are enjoying every penny of it. This ownership has had 2 great GMs — Theo and DD. The others have been steaming hot garbage. You are what your record says you are. It’s that simple.

[notin]

And the Philly fans are enjoying every penny of it. This ownership has had 2 great GMs — Theo and DD. The others have been steaming hot garbage. You are what your record says you are. It’s that simple.

 

But the point is Henry wouldn’t allow DD to do that here…

[Randy Red Sox]

Phillies have had the easiest record in the MLB to date. They’ve played something like a weeks worth of games vs teams with a winning record.

 

I think they’re good, but they’re not the best team in MLB.

 

well they are certainly MILES ahead of the Red Sox

[moonslav59]

well they are certainly MILES ahead of the Red Sox

 

Indeed and in many ways.

[Maxbialystock]

But the point is Henry wouldn’t allow DD to do that here…

 

Baloney. He absolutely, positively did allow DD to do that for the Sox. In 2016, DD's first season, the Sox had the 3d highest payroll in MLB. In 2017, 2d highest. And in 2018 and 2019 the highest payrolls in MLB.

 

And guess what JH found out in 2019? Not only were the Sox not even going to make the postseason--with the biggest payroll in MLB--DD was almost certainly telling him he would need a whole lot more money to keep Mookie Betts and find two more stud starting pitchers to replace Sale and Price while also continuing to pay Sale and Price.

[notin]

Baloney. He absolutely, positively did allow DD to do that for the Sox. In 2016, DD's first season, the Sox had the 3d highest payroll in MLB. In 2017, 2d highest. And in 2018 and 2019 the highest payrolls in MLB.

 

And guess what JH found out in 2019? Not only were the Sox not even going to make the postseason--with the biggest payroll in MLB--DD was almost certainly telling him he would need a whole lot more money to keep Mookie Betts and find two more stud starting pitchers to replace Sale and Price while also continuing to pay Sale and Price.

 

Oh I agree he did allow DD to. But that was then. The whole reason they switched to Bloom was to start their new path of not spending (while saying they were)…

[Maxbialystock]

Oh I agree he did allow DD to. But that was then. The whole reason they switched to Bloom was to start their new path of not spending (while saying they were)…

 

So let me ask you this simple question. What would you have done if, after 4 straight seasons of paying top dollar or near top dollar, your CBO came to you and said, "boss, love those payrolls, but to remain competitive we are going to have to spend a whole lot more money?"

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So let me ask you this simple question. What would you have done if, after 4 straight seasons of paying top dollar or near top dollar, your CBO came to you and said, "boss, love those payrolls, but to remain competitive we are going to have to spend a whole lot more money?"

 

I'd pay Mookie.

[Maxbialystock]

I'd pay Mookie.

 

Fine, I like Mookie too.

 

However, I have two responses to keeping him. First is that Mookie doesn't pitch, so the Sox pitching staff would have continued to disintegrate to mediocrity. Second is the example of the LA Angels, who have kept a truly great player in Mike Trout and gone nowhere in the postseason. Indeed, from 2018 to 2023, the had both Trout and Ohtani and went nowhere.

 

I am not arguing that JH has made the right decisions with respect to CBO's and/or level of spending. But I am saying I understand his frustration with all those big contracts that resulted in so-so performance.

 

As I have already said too many times, that frustration continues today with paying Sale $17M to star for the Braves, Turner $6.7M to play elsewhere, Story $22.5M to remain on the IL until 2025, ditto Giolito $18M, ditto Whitlock $3.2M, and $18.6M to Yoshida who is currently on the IL and whose hitting last year and this has not been commensurate with that salary.

[dgalehouse]

So let me ask you this simple question. What would you have done if, after 4 straight seasons of paying top dollar or near top dollar, your CBO came to you and said, "boss, love those payrolls, but to remain competitive we are going to have to spend a whole lot more money?"

 

I would tell him, " No, I can't afford it. My wife wants a new yacht. " Then I would wonder why my customers were angry. And I would go into hiding.

[notin]

So let me ask you this simple question. What would you have done if, after 4 straight seasons of paying top dollar or near top dollar, your CBO came to you and said, "boss, love those payrolls, but to remain competitive we are going to have to spend a whole lot more money?"

 

 

Does this all start in 2018? I’d have never approved the Price contract in the first place.

 

Also, don’t forget once DD realized he could never get Mookie to sign for what he was allowed to spend, he pivoted to securing Bogaerts and Sale for roughly 75% of what Mookie signed for. So Mookie wasn’t that much further out of reach…

[Maxbialystock]

I would tell him, " No, I can't afford it. My wife wants a new yacht. " Then I would wonder why my customers were angry. And I would go into hiding.

 

Customers got tired of going to Fenway Park 10 years ago. 6 years ago they couldn't even fill that very small ballpark with the best Sox team ever. His yacht cost $90M, which wouldn't begin to pay what the Dodgers are now paying Mookie Betts.

[dgalehouse]

Customers got tired of going to Fenway Park 10 years ago. 6 years ago they couldn't even fill that very small ballpark with the best Sox team ever. His yacht cost $90M, which wouldn't begin to pay what the Dodgers are now paying Mookie Betts.

 

It is obvious that there has been a very clear drop off in Red Sox fan interest . Attendance. TV ratings. Sports talk shows. Interest in general. All down. Even on here we are seeing game threads not even two pages long, and half of that is your repetitive prose. To me, it signifies poor management. But it's okay for you to defend it. We need people like you.

[Nick]

And the Philly fans are enjoying every penny of it. This ownership has had 2 great GMs — Theo and DD. The others have been steaming hot garbage. You are what your record says you are. It’s that simple.

 

It's interesting how Sox fans has flipped on DD.

 

I was a staunch supporter of DD from get go.

 

Many here thought he was going for a quick fix.

 

My argument was always that in heels of 3 last places out of 4 seasons, he had a mandate to do whatever means to fix that.

 

You never know what you are missing until you get the next guy.

[Old Red]

It is obvious that there has been a very clear drop off in Red Sox fan interest . Attendance. TV ratings. Sports talk shows. Interest in general. All down. Even on here we are seeing game threads not even two pages long, and half of that is your repetitive prose. To me, it signifies poor management. But it's okay for you to defend it. We need people like you.

I applaud the diehards who watch day in, and day out.

[Hugh2]

It's interesting how Sox fans has flipped on DD.

 

I was a staunch supporter of DD from get go.

 

Many here thought he was going for a quick fix.

 

My argument was always that in heels of 3 last places out of 4 seasons, he had a mandate to do whatever means to fix that.

 

You never know what you are missing until you get the next guy.

 

My gripe with DD is largely what he did to Noah Song, that was vindictive and possibly detrimental to his career.

 

he did his job here, and even if he "stripped the farm" well many of his draft picks are heping the team now Duran, Houck, Casas, Crawford etc etc.

 

The irony is, younger in DD's career he had a reputation building up good farm systems, if he was mandated to do that in Boston he could have, but I suspect he wouldn't take a gig like that where he is at in his career, but he has that under his belt.

 

DD might of been fired, but I'd bet he would have quit if he wasn't fired if John Henry gave him the same mandate he game Bloom, because Dave knew he'd probably end up with a few last place finishes himself. The writing was on the wall when Henry wanted to close the spigot.

Edited June 2, 2024 by A Red Sox fan named Hugh

[Maxbialystock]

But the point is Henry wouldn’t allow DD to do that here…

 

You are so completely full of it. Seriously. In DD's 4 seasons as the Sox CBO, their payrolls were ranked 3d, 2d, 1st, and 1st.

 

What broke the bank at Monte Carlo was the collapse of the Sox in 2019 with the biggest payroll in MLB and DD going to John Henry saying "I need a whole lot more money to meet Mookie's demands, which the Dodgers are more than happy to meet, plus I need a bunch of money to replace David Price and Chris Sale while we continue to pay them."

[Maxbialystock]

It's interesting how Sox fans has flipped on DD.

 

I was a staunch supporter of DD from get go.

 

Many here thought he was going for a quick fix.

 

My argument was always that in heels of 3 last places out of 4 seasons, he had a mandate to do whatever means to fix that.

 

You never know what you are missing until you get the next guy.

 

Boy, you sure know how to misrepresent things. DD was hired in August 2015. LESS THAN TWO YEARS EARLIER THE SOX WON THE 2013 WORLD SERIES. That was also the Sox 3d WS win in the previous decade, 2004-2014.

 

Also, as I keep saying and you keep ignoring, JH pretty much gave DD carte blanche--the Sox payrolls under DD were 3d largest, 2d largest, largest, and largest in DD's 4 seasons. However, in that last season, 2019, with the Sox already with the biggest payroll in MLB, DD had to go to JH and tell he needed a lot more money to keep Mookie and find two really good starters to replace Sale and Price--while still paying Sale and Price.

[Maxbialystock]

My gripe with DD is largely what he did to Noah Song, that was vindictive and possibly detrimental to his career.

 

he did his job here, and even if he "stripped the farm" well many of his draft picks are heping the team now Duran, Houck, Casas, Crawford etc etc.

 

The irony is, younger in DD's career he had a reputation building up good farm systems, if he was mandated to do that in Boston he could have, but I suspect he wouldn't take a gig like that where he is at in his career, but he has that under his belt.

 

DD might of been fired, but I'd bet he would have quit if he wasn't fired if John Henry gave him the same mandate he game Bloom, because Dave knew he'd probably end up with a few last place finishes himself. The writing was on the wall when Henry wanted to close the spigot.

 

He did not "close the spigot." Even this year, 5 years after the 2019 season, the Sox payroll is $182M, 11th biggest of 30 MLB teams. Two years after 2019 in the 2021 season, the Sox payroll was 6th highest and that was enough to produce a team good enough to make it to the ALCS--something only 1 of DD's four Red Sox teams accomplished.

[jad]

I'd pay Mookie.

 

It's actually quite amazing how many adversative conjunctions you generate with this statement, which no classic fan could possibly object to. (Fantasy sports enthusiasts and pretend-GMs? ... they're a different story). You have the best player in the league on your team? you keep him.

[moonslav59]

It's actually quite amazing how many adversative conjunctions you generate with this statement, which no classic fan could possibly object to. (Fantasy sports enthusiasts and pretend-GMs? ... they're a different story). You have the best player in the league on your team? you keep him.

 

It was and still is that simple.

[notin]

You are so completely full of it. Seriously. In DD's 4 seasons as the Sox CBO, their payrolls were ranked 3d, 2d, 1st, and 1st.

 

What broke the bank at Monte Carlo was the collapse of the Sox in 2019 with the biggest payroll in MLB and DD going to John Henry saying "I need a whole lot more money to meet Mookie's demands, which the Dodgers are more than happy to meet, plus I need a bunch of money to replace David Price and Chris Sale while we continue to pay them."

 

 

It’s not about what DD was allowed to do then. It’s about what he’d be allowed to do now.

 

Henry went with Bloom because he wanted to stop the heavy spending and build from within. DD does actually have a part where he did things like that, and for Henry, no less. So if Henry did keep DD on board, he’d have to operate within the same budget Bloom did, and not the one he has in Philly…

[moonslav59]

It’s not about what DD was allowed to do then. It’s about what he’d be allowed to do now.

 

Henry went with Bloom because he wanted to stop the heavy spending and build from within. DD does actually have a part where he did things like that, and for Henry, no less. So if Henry did keep DD on board, he’d have to operate within the same budget Bloom did, and not the one he has in Philly…

 

It's my opinion, DD would not have stuck around for the demands made to Bloom and now Brez.

[Nick]

Boy, you sure know how to misrepresent things. DD was hired in August 2015. LESS THAN TWO YEARS EARLIER THE SOX WON THE 2013 WORLD SERIES. That was also the Sox 3d WS win in the previous decade, 2004-2014.

 

Also, as I keep saying and you keep ignoring, JH pretty much gave DD carte blanche--the Sox payrolls under DD were 3d largest, 2d largest, largest, and largest in DD's 4 seasons. However, in that last season, 2019, with the Sox already with the biggest payroll in MLB, DD had to go to JH and tell he needed a lot more money to keep Mookie and find two really good starters to replace Sale and Price--while still paying Sale and Price.

 

Why was he hired then?

 

I misreprensented NOTHING. If the 2013 World Series was that relevant JH would not have hired DD.

 

You got NOTHING.

[Bellhorn04]

You are so completely full of it. Seriously. In DD's 4 seasons as the Sox CBO, their payrolls were ranked 3d, 2d, 1st, and 1st.

 

What broke the bank at Monte Carlo was the collapse of the Sox in 2019 with the biggest payroll in MLB and DD going to John Henry saying "I need a whole lot more money to meet Mookie's demands, which the Dodgers are more than happy to meet, plus I need a bunch of money to replace David Price and Chris Sale while we continue to pay them."

 

Link please.

[Elktonnick]

Link please.

For what it's worth, I do not think DDs dismissal had anything to do with money. There were published reports that Henry did not like DD management style. Other front office personnel complained that DD cut them out of his descionmaking process. Henry wanted a more collegial consensus operation. Word was that they were going to fire DD after the 2018 season but couldn't after the world series win. The poor 2019 start and season overall then made it easy for them to cut DD out of the picture.

[Bellhorn04]

For what it's worth, I do not think DDs dismissal had anything to do with money. There were published reports that Henry did not like DD management style. Other front office personnel complained that DD cut them out of his descionmaking process. Henry wanted a more collegial consensus operation. Word was that they were going to fire DD after the 2018 season but couldn't after the world series win. The poor 2019 start and season overall then made it easy for them to cut DD out of the picture.

 

Yes, that seems to be the story and it's a plausible one. I also think it says a lot about Henry's ego that he thought he could just cut loose DD (and Betts), go in a whole new cheaper direction and continue to succeed at the same level.

Edited June 2, 2024 by Bellhorn04

[Elktonnick]

Yes, that seems to be the story and it's a plausible one. I also think it says a lot about Henry's ego that he thought he could just cut loose DD (and Betts), go in a whole new cheaper direction and continue to succeed at the same level.

Yup I

[notin]

Yes, that seems to be the story and it's a plausible one. I also think it says a lot about Henry's ego that he thought he could just cut loose DD (and Betts), go in a whole new cheaper direction and continue to succeed at the same level.

 

I actually don’t find it all that plausible, since Henry must have been somewhat aware of DDs management style from their time together in Miami…

Edited June 2, 2024 by notin

[moonslav59]

I'm not sure it matters- the reason. It was probably a few things combined.

 

With major cuts to the budget on the horizon, it was not going to be a good fit for DD or the Sox. That is not how DD is best situated.