A Realistic View at 2024: Part I

[moonslav59]

SP'ers still available:

 

Monty & Snell

 

Clevinger, Lorenzen & Ryu

 

(Injured) Kershaw & Woodruff

(Major Character Issues) Bauer, Urias & German

 

Lauer, A Wood, Junis, B Keller

 

Greinke, Cueto, RHill

V Velasquez, Z Davies, Syndergaard & Teheran

Odorizzi, D Duffy, Turnbull

 

[Randy Red Sox]

SP'ers still available:

 

Monty & Snell

 

Clevinger, Lorenzen & Ryu

 

(Injured) Kershaw & Woodruff

(Major Character Issues) Bauer, Urias & German

 

Lauer, A Wood, Junis, B Keller

 

Greinke, Cueto, RHill

V Velasquez, Z Davies, Syndergaard & Teheran

Odorizzi, D Duffy, Turnbull

 

 

I could see the Sox bringing in Hill on a M/L deal

[jad]

Seems to me they've done some things to make super-fans pore over their spread sheets, but absolutely nothing to make the average fan (the one who puts the pennies in the seats, as Steinbrenner used to say) want to bother going to a game or even checking the box scores.

[moonslav59]

I could see the Sox bringing in Hill on a M/L deal

 

He might be the best we can hope for.

[harmony]

SP'ers still available:

 

Monty & Snell

 

Clevinger, Lorenzen & Ryu

 

(Injured) Kershaw & Woodruff

(Major Character Issues) Bauer, Urias & German

 

Lauer, A Wood, Junis, B Keller

 

Greinke, Cueto, RHill

V Velasquez, Z Davies, Syndergaard & Teheran

Odorizzi, D Duffy, Turnbull

 

Veteran left hander Tommy Milone is still available (and looked solid in a start this poster witnessed last July):

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/milonto01.shtml

 

MLB Gameday: Mariners 0, Giants 2 Final Score (07/05/2023) | MLB.com

WWW.MLB.COM

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Follow MLB results with FREE box scores, pitch-by-pitch strikezone info, and Statcast data for Mariners vs. Giants at Oracle Park

[moonslav59]

Veteran left hander Tommy Milone is still available (and looked solid in a start this poster witnessed last July):

 

https://www.baseball-reference.com/players/m/milonto01.shtml

 

MLB Gameday: Mariners 0, Giants 2 Final Score (07/05/2023) | MLB.com

WWW.MLB.COM

---

Follow MLB results with FREE box scores, pitch-by-pitch strikezone info, and Statcast data for Mariners vs. Giants at Oracle Park

 

No, thanks.

[Larry Cook]

So the payroll sits at about 201 million right now. Some people think the max budget is 200 million.

 

Is they are correct, then this is our team for 2024!

[moonslav59]

So the payroll sits at about 201 million right now. Some people think the max budget is 200 million.

 

Is they are correct, then this is our team for 2024!

 

Well, we could trade salary and add some, elsewhere.

[Nick]

I could see the Sox bringing in Hill on a M/L deal

 

I don't. The buzz word is providing ' runway' for young talent.

 

Why would I want to watch another has been?

[Nick]

Well, we could trade salary and add some, elsewhere.

 

At some point if younger kids play the way say Casas did last year look for Sox to trade both Story and Yoshida.

 

I also predict Cora will be gone regardless of what he does this year.

 

We want to be like the Orioles.

Edited January 27, 2024 by Nick

[Hugh2]

At some point if younger kids play the way say Casas did last year look for Sox to trade both Story and Yoshida.

 

I also predict Cora will be gone regardless of what he does this year.

 

We want to be like the Orioles.

 

If the kids play like Casas did we would be in the playoff picture. I don’t think we will be sellers.

[Bellhorn04]

If the kids play like Casas did we would be in the playoff picture. I don’t think we will be sellers.

 

Nick thinks the new dream is to be the Boston Orioles.

[Old Red]

Nick thinks the new dream is to be the Boston Orioles.

 

Baltimore had many losing 90+, and 3 100 loss seasons to get to where they are today. Those 3 100 loss seasons have been since 2018.

[Bellhorn04]

Baltimore had many losing 90+, and 3 100 loss seasons to get to where they are today. Those 3 100 loss seasons have been since 2018.

 

I know. And their owners are miserly pricks who won't spend to boost the team's chances. It's not a great model.

[notin]

I know. And their owners are miserly pricks who won't spend to boost the team's chances. It's not a great model.

 

I think the plan is to be like the Orioles, but to do so with skipping those bad years. Get right to the winning team with the stacked farm system…

[Old Red]

I know. And their owners are miserly pricks who won't spend to boost the team's chances. It's not a great model.

 

Baltimore needs pitching like everyone else, but all they’ve done pretty much this offseason is add Kimbrel.

[Bellhorn04]

I think the plan is to be like the Orioles, but to do so with skipping those bad years. Get right to the winning team with the stacked farm system…

 

Lofty plans are great. They also often turn out to be no more than mental masturbation.

 

"It's gonna be awesome!"

[Nick]

I was thinking gathering young talent as Orioles have done but 'go for it' when the time is right.

 

I am just guessing that's what the Sox will do.

 

We will only have 4 players under contract at $75M after 2024.

Edited January 27, 2024 by Nick

[Bellhorn04]

I was thinking gathering young talent as Orioles have done but 'go for it' when the time is right.

 

I am just guessing that's what the Sox will do.

 

We will only have 4 players under contract at $75M after 2024.

 

But why would you trade Story, if he's healthy and contributing?

[notin]

Lofty plans are great. They also often turn out to be no more than mental masturbation.

 

 

Not quite.

 

The difference is that with masturbation, at least one person likes it…

[Bellhorn04]

Not quite.

 

The difference is that with masturbation, at least one person likes it…

 

Bloom probably liked his plan.

[notin]

Bloom probably liked his plan.

 

If Bloom knew how to handle July, was his plan so bad?

[Bellhorn04]

If Bloom knew how to handle July, was his plan so bad?

 

Not signing any starting pitchers for more than $10 mill was arguably a very bad plan. JBJ, Story, Yoshida, Kike at short, there's plenty to choose from. You choose to focus on the deadline floundering, that's all.

[notin]

Not signing any starting pitchers for more than $10 mill was arguably a very bad plan. JBJ, Story, Yoshida, Kike at short, there's plenty to choose from. You choose to focus on the deadline floundering, that's all.

 

You’re getting too mixed up with citing each individual move as part of the plan. Kike at SS was clearly not; it was a reaction to an injury. Bloom didn’t fix it properly but it clearly wasn’t planned.

 

Also, can we stop labeling Yoshida a bust after one season? Did you think Hideki Matsui was a bust after one season? And especially since Yoshida was actually a very good hitter for the bulk of the year but had a late season collapse. So did Justin Turner. Was he also a mistake?

 

In fact the notion that “he acquired player X and that guy was bad” is NOT an indictment of the entire plan. Especially not on these piddling one season moves. That’s more just fans being overly critical.

 

I am not so certain not spending on pitching was Bloom’s idea. Not like they’ve gone crazy spending on it since his departure.

 

His plan seemed simple to me - keep the parent club competitive without making too many major commitments, and build up the farm system the surest and fastest way possible (i.e. no high risk pitching prospects with early pucks).

 

That he repeatedly folded in July and neither committed to selling nor actually trying to improve a borderline club was completely his fault and shows how he couldn’t commit to his own plan.

[notin]

Not signing any starting pitchers for more than $10 mill was arguably a very bad plan. JBJ, Story, Yoshida, Kike at short, there's plenty to choose from. You choose to focus on the deadline floundering, that's all.

 

Maybe because what I saw was a team in terrible shape and you didn’t. I saw the 2019 team as a squad that dropped 24 games from the previous year, had over $300mill committed to three frequently injured pitchers, and had not locked up any of their young star player core. And did all this st a time when Tampa and NY were making huge strides and the 93-wins the Sox won two AL East pendants with were no net going to be good enough. And all this while everyone was ranking the Sox farm in the 25-30 range.

 

Bloom did fix the farm. And he did make the postseason in 2021. And, if he didn’t just twiddle his thumbs, could have made it in 2022 and 2023 as well.

 

Now if those last two had happened, are you still so critical of his plan?

[Old Red]

Maybe because what I saw was a team in terrible shape and you didn’t. I saw the 2019 team as a squad that dropped 24 games from the previous year, had over $300mill committed to three frequently injured pitchers, and had not locked up any of their young star player core. And did all this st a time when Tampa and NY were making huge strides and the 93-wins the Sox won two AL East pendants with were no net going to be good enough. And all this while everyone was ranking the Sox farm in the 25-30 range.

 

Bloom did fix the farm. And he did make the postseason in 2021. And, if he didn’t just twiddle his thumbs, could have made it in 2022 and 2023 as well.

 

Now if those last two had happened, are you still so critical of his plan?

 

Let’s not get carried away. The 2018 team with a 108 wins was a once in a lifetime record, so while dropping 24 games from that the following year wasn’t good there was bound to be a drop off anyway. Cora didn’t have the team ready to go especially the pitching staff, which he admitted in 2019 either. It wasn’t just Bloom looking for that 3rd option in the fork in the road at the deadline the last two years that prevented the Red Sox from the postseason either.

[Bellhorn04]

Maybe because what I saw was a team in terrible shape and you didn’t. I saw the 2019 team as a squad that dropped 24 games from the previous year, had over $300mill committed to three frequently injured pitchers, and had not locked up any of their young star player core. And did all this st a time when Tampa and NY were making huge strides and the 93-wins the Sox won two AL East pendants with were no net going to be good enough. And all this while everyone was ranking the Sox farm in the 25-30 range.

 

Bloom did fix the farm. And he did make the postseason in 2021. And, if he didn’t just twiddle his thumbs, could have made it in 2022 and 2023 as well.

 

Now if those last two had happened, are you still so critical of his plan?

 

Here's the thing. You blame Bloom for not doing more to help the 2022 and 2023 teams at the deadlines. But after Bloom was fired we got the leaked stories about the trades that he didn't make, like Turner for Cabrera. At the 2023 deadline Turner was arguably the team MVP, while Cabrera was a struggling pitcher with a 4.79 ERA. That trade would have been about the future, not 2023.

 

As it turns out there are more indications that Bloom got fired for not selling at the deadlines than for not buying at the deadlines.

 

But you blame him for not buying. I'm with you on that, actually. But the evidence is that Bloom didn't really know which way to go. How much of that was his fault and how much was the fault of the rest of the brain trust we'll never know.

[Old Red]

You’re getting too mixed up with citing each individual move as part of the plan. Kike at SS was clearly not; it was a reaction to an injury. Bloom didn’t fix it properly but it clearly wasn’t planned.

 

Also, can we stop labeling Yoshida a bust after one season? Did you think Hideki Matsui was a bust after one season? And especially since Yoshida was actually a very good hitter for the bulk of the year but had a late season collapse. So did Justin Turner. Was he also a mistake?

 

In fact the notion that “he acquired player X and that guy was bad” is NOT an indictment of the entire plan. Especially not on these piddling one season moves. That’s more just fans being overly critical.

 

I am not so certain not spending on pitching was Bloom’s idea. Not like they’ve gone crazy spending on it since his departure.

 

His plan seemed simple to me - keep the parent club competitive without making too many major commitments, and build up the farm system the surest and fastest way possible (i.e. no high risk pitching prospects with early pucks).

 

That he repeatedly folded in July and neither committed to selling nor actually trying to improve a borderline club was completely his fault and shows how he couldn’t commit to his own plan.

 

Trading a 96 RBI OF for JBJ who couldn’t hit, no backup plan for RF except Arroyo, no backup plan for 1B except for Franchy Strangeglove. In total cluster f—-. Those were some of Bloom’s master plans.

[notin]

Trading a 96 RBI OF for JBJ who couldn’t hit, no backup plan for RF except Arroyo, no backup plan for 1B except for Franchy Strangeglove. In total cluster f—-. Those were some of Bloom’s master plans.

 

He definitely let 1b go that one year.

 

But you’re falling into the “This move didn’t work out do the whole plan is shot” mentality. Every GM makes moves that don’t work out. The idea is to limit those to impacting one season…

[notin]

Here's the thing. You blame Bloom for not doing more to help the 2022 and 2023 teams at the deadlines. But after Bloom was fired we got the leaked stories about the trades that he didn't make, like Turner for Cabrera. At the 2023 deadline Turner was arguably the team MVP, while Cabrera was a struggling pitcher with a 4.79 ERA. That trade would have been about the future, not 2023.

 

As it turns out there are more indications that Bloom got fired for not selling at the deadlines than for not buying at the deadlines.

 

But you blame him for not buying. I'm with you on that, actually. But the evidence is that Bloom didn't really know which way to go. How much of that was his fault and how much was the fault of the rest of the brain trust we'll never know.

 

I blame him for doing nothing at the deadlines, and I count Hosmer as nothing. Really I could see counting Austin Davis and Hansel Robles as nothing, too. My exact words were “twiddled his thumbs”, which is a metaphor for inaction, not for “failing to sell.”

 

I wouldn’t have liked it if he dealt JD and Sale in 2022 and Turner in 2023, but I would at least acknowledge he had a direction.

 

Unlike some people, I’m not criticizing Bloom for not running the team the way I wanted it run; my criticisms are when he failed to run it at all…

Edited January 27, 2024 by notin