Bloom fired

[notin]

Yep. The Rays lead the industry in getting the most for their money. Friedman went to LA and has generally kicked butt.

 

Henry was salivating at getting in on all that. He completely set aside Bloom's lack of experience for the job. As you say he wanted Bloom and had nobody else in mind.

 

Not to mention, Click went to Houston and presided over a World Series champ.

 

Bloom didn’t work out, but the track record of former Rays’ execs is solid…

[notin]

DD rebuilt the Tigers. He could have done it here if he was told to.

 

He rebuilt the Tigers through free agency and dealing the farm. That’s not much different than what he did in Boston…

[Old Red]

I’m sure there are lower moves that happen all the time that we don’t hear about it.

 

How often is it reported when the Sox hire a new scout? Or doctor?

I don’t think a scout, or a doctor had to much to do with the plight of the Red Sox the last few years. I don’t believe much of what Sam Kennedy says, but he was right at the year end press conference last year that All of baseball ops failed with the team having the record, and the finish they did. Well the same thing happened again this year, so all of baseball ops must of failed again. Now I’m glad as hell that Bloom is gone, but what I can’t understand is how others have gotten promotions, and gotten more power. Was Bloom solely responsible for the Sox residing in last place? I don’t believe that the Red Sox new GM, or whatever you want to call it job is as highly sought after like Sam Kennedy thinks it is, by working for JH, and not getting to pick his own manager, or even his own Exec VP of baseball ops.

[mvp 78]

Hard to say.

 

78 wins this year. Add 2 players worth 8 wins, which is easier said than done, and that still only gets you to 86. The rest would have to come from internal improvements, which we're all hoping for, but not really guaranteed.

 

Trevor Story should be a big factor. Casas probably won’t be a black hole in April.

[Randy Red Sox]

He rebuilt the Tigers through free agency and dealing the farm. That’s not much different than what he did in Boston…

 

what prospects that DD traded make a big impact? We are seeing DD prospects that he didn't trade like Bello, Duran, Houk, Raefala, Casas become big contributors now as well. There is just simply no comparison between the 2 GM's.

[notin]

Trevor Story should be a big factor. Casas probably won’t be a black hole in April.

 

Urias over Arroyo?

[notin]

what prospects that DD traded make a big impact? We are seeing DD prospects that he didn't trade like Bello, Duran, Houk, Raefala, Casas become big contributors now as well. There is just simply no comparison between the 2 GM's.

 

So you’re saying he didn’t rebuild the Tigers through free agency and by dealing their prospects?

[Randy Red Sox]

You know what - this is so true. I'm reading about all of the things that Dave Dombrowski would or would not have been able to do and how he was great with a big payroll but couldn't build the farm and how he just traded away so much talent. I truly wish that he was our GM today. My guess is that baseball would still be relevant in Boston right now. Looking at what has happened to this franchise since he left, makes me wonder why any accomplished GM would want this job right now. Turning this program around will be a very very difficult job. They are not just a couple of players be they pitchers or hitters away from being any good.

 

I disagree. There is still a good core in place. They need 2 SOLID SP , an upgrade at 2B, and figuring out their OF but all this is reasonably achieved PROVIDED Henry is willing to spend again. Houck and Whitlock both go to the pen.

[moonslav59]

DD rebuilt the Tigers. He could have done it here if he was told to.

 

He rebuilt the Tigers with money and by trading prospects.

 

The parameters would have had to have changed, but then you have to think how Bloommight have done had he spent millions more and traded Mayer, Duran and others.

[moonslav59]

Henry got what he deserved, and unfortunately the rest of us went along for the ride. Bloom thought they were underdogs. He turned the Red Sox into a Mickey Mouse operation.

 

I don’t get your fixation on the underdog thing. Did anyone think we were favorites at any point since day one in Bloom’s term?

 

The 2020 team was a mess and a major underdog.

[notin]

I disagree. There is still a good core in place. They need 2 SOLID SP , an upgrade at 2B, and figuring out their OF but all this is reasonably achieved PROVIDED Henry is willing to spend again. Houck and Whitlock both go to the pen.

 

Need a like button.

 

Also add please improve the defense…

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t get your fixation on the underdog thing. Did anyone think we were favorites at any point since day one in Bloom’s term?

 

The 2020 team was a mess and a major underdog.

 

Bloom made a dumb comment after this year's trade deadline about the Red Sox being underdogs. Varitek and Cora made fun of it. It wasn't a good look for Bloom.

[Old Red]

Bloom made a dumb comment after this year's trade deadline about the Red Sox being underdogs. Varitek and Cora made fun of it. It wasn't a good look for Bloom.

 

One of his many bad looks.

[moonslav59]

what prospects that DD traded make a big impact? We are seeing DD prospects that he didn't trade like Bello, Duran, Houk, Raefala, Casas become big contributors now as well. There is just simply no comparison between the 2 GM's.

 

Do you think DD would have been allowed to trade Mayer, Rafaela, Duran, Bello, Casas or others had he stayed around?

 

Remember, he traded no major prospects after the 2018 deadline, and that was likely going to continue. In dreamland, we can envision he extended Betts and not Sale, had more to spend, and chose wisely on what overrated prospects to trade (like he did before.)

 

He could have traded Chavis, Mata and Groome, when their stock was highest. Later, he might have traded Dalbec, DHern and Jimenez.

 

I seriously doubt DD would have wanted to be here under the circumstances Bloom faced.

 

Change the circumstances for DD, then we should for Bloom, too.

 

IMO, keeping DD around would have only worked, if the parameters changed, too.

 

[notin]

Bloom made a dumb comment after this year's trade deadline about the Red Sox being underdogs. Varitek and Cora made fun of it. It wasn't a good look for Bloom.

 

Bloom seemed to lose it in July/August, at least the last two years. Which was made even more stupid by the fact that he was able to be pretty good in 2021…

[moonslav59]

I disagree. There is still a good core in place. They need 2 SOLID SP , an upgrade at 2B, and figuring out their OF but all this is reasonably achieved PROVIDED Henry is willing to spend again. Houck and Whitlock both go to the pen.

 

I think admitting we are two solid starting pitchers away from being a pretty solid playoff contenders would be admitting Bloom got some things right, along the way to his dismissal.

 

Bell is right in saying adding two studs is not easy, even with enough money and tradeable prospects to add 3-4. You have to pick the right ones. We can't pick the David Prices, Pablitoe's and HRam's like the past. We need to be precise on our choices, which is against the odds, unless you add 4, hoing 2-3 work for a couple -three years.

 

We may be in the minority, Randy, but I am excited about the foundation we have going forward. Does Baltimore and Atlanta have better foundations? Hell, yes, but we are headed in the right direction, and now need to pivot towards making major acquisitions that work well. I fully understand the idea that Bloom was not going to be the guy to trust doing that, and it's not about injuries to Story or a slow start by Yoshia. Getting the "right guy" takes boldness and decisiveness. The next GM better be both.

[notin]

You know what - this is so true. I'm reading about all of the things that Dave Dombrowski would or would not have been able to do and how he was great with a big payroll but couldn't build the farm and how he just traded away so much talent. I truly wish that he was our GM today. My guess is that baseball would still be relevant in Boston right now. Looking at what has happened to this franchise since he left, makes me wonder why any accomplished GM would want this job right now. Turning this program around will be a very very difficult job. They are not just a couple of players be they pitchers or hitters away from being any good.

 

Would they?

 

Simple question - would Dombrowski have traded Betts?

 

He showed he was not able to sign him, and per Mookie didn’t even try to.

 

But if DD doesn’t make that trade, Betts leaves, no Verdugo, no Wong and Price would have been on the team last season…

[Old Red]

Do you think DD would have been allowed to trade Mayer, Rafaela, Duran, Bello, Casas or others had he stayed around?

 

Remember, he traded no major prospects after the 2018 deadline, and that was likely going to continue. In dreamland, we can envision he extended Betts and not Sale, had more to spend, and chose wisely on what overrated prospects to trade (like he did before.)

 

He could have traded Chavis, Mata and Groome, when their stock was highest. Later, he might have traded Dalbec, DHern and Jimenez.

 

I seriously doubt DD would have wanted to be here under the circumstances Bloom faced.

 

Change the circumstances for DD, then we should for Bloom, too.

 

IMO, keeping DD around would have only worked, if the parameters changed, too.

 

I have heard about the bad circumstances Bloom was under at ad nauseam. Bloom made more of them circumstances than he was handled. I believe that most likely if DD would have stayed things would’ve NEVER gotten as bad as they did under Gloom, and Doom Bloom.

[notin]

… by “last season” I mean 2022 season

[Bellhorn04]

Would they?

 

Simple question - would Dombrowski have traded Betts?

 

He showed he was not able to sign him, and per Mookie didn’t even try to.

 

Right, it couldn't have had anything to do with Henry's unwillingness to offer market value.

[moonslav59]

Bloom seemed to lose it in July/August, at least the last two years. Which was made even more stupid by the fact that he was able to be pretty good in 2021…

 

Agreed, and the funny thing is, I view the winter before 2021 as worse choices made than prior to 2022 and 2023.

 

One major difference was at the deadlines (and later waiver additions):

 

2021: Added Schwarber, Robles, Rios, Davis, Shaw and Iggy. Almost all made significant contributions.

2022: Traded Vaz and others for mostly future assets like Abreu, EValdez and Rosier while whiffing on Pham & Hosmer. McGuire was one minor plus.

2023: Added Urias, although I'm not sure adding Verlander and others would have turned us into a playoff team

 

[moonslav59]

Would they?

 

Simple question - would Dombrowski have traded Betts?

 

He showed he was not able to sign him, and per Mookie didn’t even try to.

 

But if DD doesn’t make that trade, Betts leaves, no Verdugo, no Wong and Price would have been on the team last season…

 

In theory, he he kept Betts, he'd still have had to cut the budget for 2020, somehow.

[notin]

I have heard about the bad circumstances Bloom was under at ad nauseam. Bloom made more of them circumstances than he was handled. I believe that most likely if DD would have stayed things would’ve NEVER gotten as bad as they did under Gloom, and Doom Bloom.

 

Same question - what do you think Dombrowski does with Betts? Trades him or lets him walk?

 

We all know signing was not an option. Because if it was, why didn’t Dombrowski do it?

[notin]

In theory, he he kept Betts, he'd still have had to cut the budget for 2020, somehow.

 

Well he would have easily cut $25mill off that budget by seasons end simply by letting Mookie walk for a draft pick…

[moonslav59]

I have heard about the bad circumstances Bloom was under at ad nauseam. Bloom made more of them circumstances than he was handled. I believe that most likely if DD would have stayed things would’ve NEVER gotten as bad as they did under Gloom, and Doom Bloom.

 

I agree, Bloom failed.

 

How could any GM have gotten the 2020 budget down to what it was and built a winner for 2021?

 

The second part is about trading prospects. I don't think I'm wrong to think it became an organizational philosophy not to trade any for almost 5 years. I don't think Bloom insisted on this. My evidence is that even DD made no significant prospect trades in his last 1.5 seasons with the Sox. That guideline or mandate, or whatever you want to call it, came from above.

 

Maybe DD or any other GM would have done better than Bloom, but I firmly disagree that "Bloom made more of the circumstances" than he was handed, but for those who feel he was the one who chose to trade Betts and cut the budget and hoard all the highly ranked prospects, I can see how you view it that way.

[mvp 78]

DD didn’t have any prospects left to deal his last year.

[moonslav59]

Well he would have easily cut $25mill off that budget by seasons end simply by letting Mookie walk for a draft pick…

 

No. Betts had a final arb year for 2020. He has to pay him in 2020, if he doesn't trade him. Paying him $29M means cutting $29M, elsewhere, plus the $16M for half-Price.

 

The budget cut would have been for 2021 and beyond, but we'd still be paying full Price for David.

[Hugh2]

DD didn’t have any prospects left to deal his last year.

 

That’s another thing, even if all the prospects he traded bust, if he overspent at the time he had less prospects to make other trades down the road. That’s effectively what happened to DD because he always paid 1.2x the price to make sure he got his guy.

 

Bloom was too far the extreme in the other way perhaps. At least DD had balls

[Bellhorn04]

notin will never stop blaming DD for losing Betts, just like dgalehouse will always blame Bloom for it.

[moonslav59]

DD didn’t have any prospects left to deal his last year.

 

Certainly none like the higher ranked ones he had already traded, but he did not trade Chavis, Groome, Casas, Houck, Duran, DHern or Dalbec. It's hard to know, if he asked to do so, and was told not to, or their trade value, at the time, was so low, he could not find a return worth the effort.