Bloom fired

[Bellhorn04]

And you don’t think that falling out has anything to do with building a $240mill 84-win team with $300mill on the books for three frequently injured pitchers?

 

Because if you’re saying Henry fired him for timbering else, it really paints a picture where Henry is much more tolerant…

 

JH fires everybody. They could do a show about it.

[Bellhorn04]

Like in the Globe today the new GM type will be coming in under some curious conditions. It seems Cora won the power struggle with Bloom, and kudos to him. Cora gets to stay, and help pick out the next in charge. Also O’Hall has already been named the exec VP of baseball ops, so the new person in charge already has their own manager, and staff in place. I don’t know how appealing the Red Sox job is going to be. Sam Kennedy thinks, because it is the Red Sox people will be all lined up for the job, and I don’t think that will be the case at all. It doesn’t seem like a long term job security, and everyone saw that DD got fired after 4 winning season, and a WS title. This is not a normal job opening at all.

 

There's definitely some dysfunction at the junction.

[Old Red]

I think DD wasn't fired because of the contracts, he was fired because there were no in house replacements for the self sustaining contender than JH wanted since the Theo days. The 30th ranked farm system is what pushed him out the door.

I’m not so sure JH is as enamored with the farm rankings as everyone is on here. DD traded some of the farmers for Sale, and Kimbrel, which were good moves at the time.

[Old Red]

There's definitely some dysfunction at the junction.

 

It may turn out better with Cora in charge than it did with Bloom. Bloom still gets paid for another year, so maybe JH is just going to go with an in-house approach for this year, and see how it goes.

[Bellhorn04]

And you don’t think that falling out has anything to do with building a $240mill 84-win team with $300mill on the books for three frequently injured pitchers?

 

Bloom, OTOH, specialized in $230 million 78-win teams.

[Hugh2]

I’m not so sure JH is as enamored with the farm rankings as everyone is on here. DD traded some of the farmers for Sale, and Kimbrel, which were good moves at the time.

 

Running the Boston Red Sox has still got to be one of the more lucrative jobs out there in the sports world. I wouldn't worry about people not wanting to come here.

[notin]

I’m not so sure JH is as enamored with the farm rankings as everyone is on here. DD traded some of the farmers for Sale, and Kimbrel, which were good moves at the time.

 

You’re speaking for Henry…

[notin]

Bloom, OTOH, specialized in $230 million 78-win teams.

 

Which team of his had a payroll that high?

[notin]

Running the Boston Red Sox has still got to be one of the more lucrative jobs out there in the sports world. I wouldn't worry about people not wanting to come here.

 

It’s like any other job. Money is a huge factor…

[Bellhorn04]

Which team of his had a payroll that high?

 

$236 mill for 2022.

 

Still waiting for 2023 number, it'll be somewhere in the $220's.

[moonslav59]

$236 mill for 2022.

 

Still waiting for 2023 number, it'll be somewhere in the $220's.

 

One year is "specializing in...?"

[Bellhorn04]

One year is "specializing in...?"

 

Jeez, you really don't think in the $220's is close enough?

[moonslav59]

Jeez, you really don't think in the $220's is close enough?

 

Well, why not say "Bloom specialized in $220M last place finishes," which he did in 2 of the 4 seasons, here.

 

Either way, to me, it's only about what you have to spend, each year, how many slots you have to fill and how many of those slots are major weakness areas.

 

IMO, he had about 18-21 slots to fill on the 2020 roster with, effectively, less than zero to spend, if you count all the salary lost vs what he had to spend, but okay count the toal at less than $20M.

 

He did not have all that much to spend on 2021, but he had lessened the "open slots" to about 12-14, despite hardly spending anything going into the winter before 2021. (He added Pivetta, Whitlock, Arroyo and others for just about nothing.)

 

It was only before 2022, when his spending budget increased significantly, but with still so many slots to fill, he had to choose where to skimp (Pen in 2022 and SP in 2023.)

 

To me, we have about 3-4 major slots to fill, this winter. We could probably use 4-6, but only 3-4 are crucial. That is a major shift from past winters, IMO. With close to $50M to spend up to tax line 1, we are in better shape than at an time since pre 2019.

 

If we can spend up to the second line and/or decide we can trade a top prospect, we should be able to fill 4-6 slots.

[sk7326]

Indeed, but as it turned out, the additions to the offense were needed and also not really enough.

 

The additions to the pen were needed and that worked out well.

 

The bottom line: there just wasn't enough funds to fill all our needs.

 

More on starting pitching seems to be what everyone agreed on, and the big swing and miss on Kluber was the big mistake.

 

As it turned out, Yoshida did not do all that well, so using his money for pitching and a defensive SS might have made a significant difference, but we had no way of knowing Duran would bounce back, and our OF offense would improve by over 100 points.

 

The winter budget was large, but we were also in need of replacing Bogey, JD, Nate, Wacha, Hill, Vaz and Strahm. The other point was that several other teams passed us in the salary rankings, besides our major winter budget.

 

They didn't have a Top 10 payroll!! That was a choice. The money was there. The money is always there.

[moonslav59]

They didn't have a Top 10 payroll!! That was a choice. The money was there. The money is always there.

 

You know this for a fact?

 

Bloom chose to be at #12?

 

Spotrac has us $17M under the #10 team. We'd have gone over the tax line to get to #10.

[Old Red]

You’re speaking for Henry…

 

If I was speaking for JH I’d be sayings things like why did I hire Bloom in the first place, and maybe I should just sell the team. Saying I’m not so sure about something I don’t believe is anyway speaking for someone.

[Bellhorn04]

You know this for a fact?

 

Bloom chose to be at #12?

 

Spotrac has us $17M under the #10 team. We'd have gone over the tax line to get to #10.

 

He said "they". I assume he meant it was ownership's choice not to spend more.

[moonslav59]

He said "they". I assume he meant it was ownership's choice not to spend more.

 

Okay.

 

I just don't get what is gained by repeating that over and over. Virtually every team can say that about their owner. It's pointless, to me.

 

We can hope it happens, but hope hasn't worked for over 4 years. (The high spending stopped right after the Sale, Nate & Bogey extensions, which when taken in the context of also losing Betts, half Price and Porcello was hardly a spending spree. One could argue, the big spending stopped after the 2018 trade deadline.

[Bellhorn04]

Well, why not say "Bloom specialized in $220M last place finishes," which he did in 2 of the 4 seasons, here.

 

My point was pretty simple, moon.

 

notin keeps referring to DD's 240 million 84 win team.

 

I pointed out that Bloom put together back to back 78 win teams for a total cost of about 460 million, which averages 230 million.

 

Am I right or am I wrong?

[moonslav59]

My point was pretty simple, moon.

 

notin keeps referring to DD's 240 million 84 win team.

 

I pointed out that Bloom put together back to back 78 win teams for a total cost of about 460 million, which averages 230 million.

 

Am I right or am I wrong?

 

Wrong.

 

1. I wouldn't take the average and make it sound like he specialized in spending $230 for more than 1 year.

2. Bloom did not "put together" the half Price payments, nor the Sale contract.

3. His winter spending budgets were mostly meager, when you factor in how many slots he needed to fill each year.

[Bellhorn04]

Wrong.

 

1. I wouldn't take the average and make it sound like he specialized in spending $230 for more than 1 year.

2. Bloom did not "put together" the half Price payments, nor the Sale contract.

3. His winter spending budgets were mostly meager, when you factor in how many slots he needed to fill each year.

 

I don't really care if you wouldn't take the average. It's close enough. You're being silly.

 

notin never takes into account the things DD got stuck with, so it's only fair not to take into account what Bloom got stuck with. Apples to apples.

[Old Red]

I don't really care if you wouldn't take the average. It's close enough. You're being silly.

 

notin never takes into account the things DD got stuck with, so it's only fair not to take into account what Bloom got stuck with. Apples to apples.

 

But what isn’t apples to apples is DD put together 4 winning seasons, and a WS title, where Bloom put together two 78 win teams in his last two years on the job.

[moonslav59]

I don't really care if you wouldn't take the average. It's close enough. You're being silly.

 

notin never takes into account the things DD got stuck with, so it's only fair not to take into account what Bloom got stuck with. Apples to apples.

 

You asked if I see the way you do, then say you don't care how I see it.

 

He did not spend $230M, except in 1 year. Am I right or wrong?

[moonslav59]

But what isn’t apples to apples is DD put together 4 winning seasons, and a WS title, where Bloom put together two 78 win teams in his last two years on the job.

 

Indeed.

 

The budgets add context, but don't change those facts.

[Old Red]

Indeed.

 

The budgets add context, but don't change those facts.

 

I think it was his inaction at the trade deadline this year, and the results that followed after players coming out, and saying they needed pitching help, and most likely Cora too that was the final straw.

[moonslav59]

I think it was his inaction at the trade deadline this year, and the results that followed after players coming out, and saying they needed pitching help, and most likely Cora too that was the final straw.

 

Agreed, and within the context of other inactions and "near misses," it spelled his doom.

[Bellhorn04]

You asked if I see the way you do, then say you don't care how I see it.

 

He did not spend $230M, except in 1 year. Am I right or wrong?

 

You're right. Change it to $225 mill if you must. $235 one year, $225 the next year. Satisfactory?

[mvp 78]

You're right. Change it to $225 mill if you must. $235 one year, $225 the next year. Satisfactory?

 

$225 is just not enough in this inflationary market!

[moonslav59]

You're right. Change it to $225 mill if you must. $235 one year, $225 the next year. Satisfactory?

 

Yes, and I agree, it's not much different from what you said.

 

Bloom had a big enough budget to win more than 78 games, the last 2 years, despite all the context and deadwood. We should have done better.

 

The weird thing is, he did better in 2021 with less money and more unproductive FA signings than '22 and '23.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, and I agree, it's not much different from what you said.

 

Bloom had a big enough budget to win more than 78 games, the last 2 years, despite all the context and deadwood. We should have done better.

 

The weird thing is, he did better in 2021 with less money and more unproductive FA signings than '22 and '23.

 

So much randomness in the game, especially with the ever changing casts of characters.

 

Eovaldi and Whitlock had brilliant years in '21. They were close to useless in '22. And so on.