Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

Babe Ruth

 

I was thinking more like Luis Tiant.

[vegasbob]

To beat the proverbial deadhorse, anyone who saw or read the box score on the Rays-Rangers first game will realize why defense , though third to pitching & hitting, can influence games. Rays made 4 errors but also failed on multiple plays not made. They also chased a lot of breaking balls by Montgomery.

[moonslav59]

And I’ll say the same thing I said last time you said that. The Red Sox did not win in 1967 , 1975, 1978, or 1986, because JH wasn’t the owner.

 

He was 18 in '67, so I agree. Your answer has nothing to do with my point, anyway.

 

BTW, IMO, we did lose in those first 3 WS chances due to management not wanting to spend enough to get us over the top. In '75 and '78 we had a good GM, but were always one top pitcher away from a ring. Everyone knew it.

 

We sign Catfish Hunter and not the Yanks, what happens?

 

Anyway, the past does not matter to you, so why bring it up?

 

[moonslav59]

I was thinking more like Luis Tiant.

 

We are due!

[Old Red]

Don't accept reality, if you choose.

 

The 2023 season is in the past, to me. It sucked, badly. I accept we sucked, because it happened. Obviously changes were made based on that acceptability falling below a certain level. Congrats! You got what you wanted.

 

I know it’s hard to believe that there is someone out there who wanted Bloom gone more than me, but I think theirs is, and that is Cora. I’m thinking since Cora is JH right hand man now that he also had something to do with Bloom getting the boot. If he did I would definitely make an exception, and wave the Pom Poms on that one.

[moonslav59]

I know it’s hard to believe that there is someone out there who wanted Bloom gone more than me, but I think theirs is, and that is Cora. I’m thinking since Cora is JH right hand man now that he also had something to do with Bloom getting the boot. If he did I would definitely make an exception, and wave the Pom Poms on that one.

 

Yup. Celebrating- just as I mentioned.

 

6 or seven posts ago, you asked, "How did I get what I wanted?"

 

You just answered your own question. I can feel the joy seeping out of my laptop.

[Old Red]

Yup. Celebrating- just as I mentioned.

 

6 or seven posts ago, you asked, "How did I get what I wanted?"

 

You just answered your own question. I can feel the joy seeping out of my laptop.

 

The hilarious part is you’re worried more about me celebrating that Bloom got fired than you are Cora, and I still say Cora had a big hand in getting him fired. Thee cheers for Alex. Hip Hip Horay, Hip Hip Horay, Hip Hip Horay!👍👍👍

[moonslav59]

The hilarious part is you’re worried more about me celebrating that Bloom got fired than you are Cora, and I still say Cora had a big hand in getting him fired. Thee cheers for Alex. Hip Hip Horay, Hip Hip Horay, Hip Hip Horay!👍👍👍

 

I'm not "worried" about you celebrating, at all. I knew you'd be happy.

 

Why should I care, if Cora had a hand in the choice, at all? It means nothing to me. I don't get why you feel I should be worried about Cora's having a hand in it all (or not,) but I'm sure it makes perfect sense to your twisted mind.

 

The choice was made. It was the right choice.

 

I'm actually glad to see you are no longer hiding your giddiness. It upset you so much seeing us getting giddy over the team winning, back in July, and now we can all see what makes you giddy, and it ain't the Sox winning. You chose to hide, then.

 

Crack open a bottle of champagne. Your time has come! Come out of the basement! Rejoice- rejoice!

 

Don't forget to pat yourself on the back. You've gone 47 seconds since your last pat.

 

[moonslav59]

B ack to baseball and the offseason:

 

Who are some big RHBs available via trade?

 

No, not Trout.

[notin]

The hilarious part is you’re worried more about me celebrating that Bloom got fired than you are Cora, and I still say Cora had a big hand in getting him fired. Thee cheers for Alex. Hip Hip Horay, Hip Hip Horay, Hip Hip Horay!

 

You can say it all you want, but that doesn’t make it true.

 

For all we know, maybe Henry saw my trade deadline grade and decided that was enough to fire Bloom…

[notin]

B ack to baseball and the offseason:

 

Who are some big RHBs available via trade?

 

No, not Trout.

 

Trout was exactly what I said he was - better on an Internet forum than for a guy actually making decisions.

 

The thing is, the Sox probably need a RH bat they can play RF at Fenway, especially if they move on from Verdugo ( which isn’t a given).

 

Free agency has very little, unless you like Randal Grichuk and his Sub-.300 OBP.

 

There was a time Ramón Laureano felt like the perfect fit. He certainly has the arm. But he’sh has a few other issues, including vanishing offense, that he becomes a question mark, too…

[Old Red]

You can say it all you want, but that doesn’t make it true.

 

For all we know, maybe Henry saw my trade deadline grade and decided that was enough to fire Bloom…

 

Yea it must of been your trade deadline grade that clinched for JH. I haven’t heard it anywhere else that Cora played a big part in getting Bloom fired, and yes by me saying it doesn’t make it true. We know Cora had a meeting with John Henry, and Tom Werner, and Cora told them he wasn’t ready to be GM. Did they offer him the job? Possibly, or possibly not. We know Cora is going to be the manager next year, and we know Cora is going to have a hand in picking the next GM. Now I don’t know what that means to you, but to me I’d it sounds like Cora is JH right hand man, and it wouldn’t be out of the realm of possibilities that Cora had something to do with getting Bloom fired. To me that’s more plausible than have a twisted mind, and idea by saying it.

[Old Red]

Trout was exactly what I said he was - better on an Internet forum than for a guy actually making decisions.

 

The thing is, the Sox probably need a RH bat they can play RF at Fenway, especially if they move on from Verdugo ( which isn’t a given).

 

Free agency has very little, unless you like Randal Grichuk and his Sub-.300 OBP.

 

There was a time Ramón Laureano felt like the perfect fit. He certainly has the arm. But he’sh has a few other issues, including vanishing offense, that he becomes a question mark, too…

 

Are they better options than Duvall?

[moonslav59]

Are they better options than Duvall?

 

On the FA market, he might be the best option. I'm not sure about his defense in RF.

 

He'd be fine in LF, but we have that position covered 4 times over.

 

I don't really want to see him in CF, unless in a pinch.

 

On D, he could be a step down from Verdugo in RF.

[notin]

Are they better options than Duvall?

 

Duvall is absolutely a solid option.

 

It’s hard to think of any better ones that would actually be available.

 

Another good all around RHH outfielder who will definitely be available is Avisail Garcia. But he’s been fairly banged up the past two seasons so who knows what left. He’s owed $29mill over the next 2 years, so he’s not a huge gamble, and the spendthrift Marlins might encourage Boston with other pieces just to unload that deal…

[notin]

On the FA market, he might be the best option. I'm not sure about his defense in RF.

 

He'd be fine in LF, but we have that position covered 4 times over.

 

I don't really want to see him in CF, unless in a pinch.

 

On D, he could be a step down from Verdugo in RF.

 

 

Duvall did win a Gold Glove in RF as recently as 2021, getting more votes than some guy named Betts…

Edited October 4, 2023 by notin

[moonslav59]

OF OAA 2022 to 2023

 

RF

+1 Duvall

+0 Verdugo

+0 Duran

(-4 T Hernandez, -7 Renfroe, -16 J Soto)

 

CF

+2 Rafaela (in a very short time)

+0 Duvall

+0 Refsnyder

-1 Abreu (small sample)

-2 Duran

(+11 Bellinger)

 

LF

+1 Abreu

+1 Duvall

+0 Duran

-2 Refsnyder

-4 Verdugo

-9 Yoshida (no 2022)

(+0 T Hern)

 

[moonslav59]

Duvall did win a Gold Glove in RF as recently as 2021, getting more votes than some guy named Betts…

 

Yes, and he did have a +9 DRS and +11.2 UZR/150. OAA had him at just +2.

 

I'm still not sure, if he as good as Dugo was in 2023. The thing is, Dugo might not be that good in 2024, as well.

 

I think I'd be fine with trading Dugo and going with Duvall in RF with Abreu as his back-up. Abreu can also back up CF (to Rafaela) and LF (Duran) and probably get enough PAs to prove he deserves more, or not. We may not want to trade Ref, until we know more about Duran, Rafaela and Abreu, even if we do bring back Duvall.

[moonslav59]

There has been talk, here in Houston, all year about the Astros possibly trading Chas McCormick. He's pretty damn good on D and can hit LHPs real well. His .760 v RHPs in 2023 was not bad, either.

 

Not sure what we have that they want.

[moonslav59]

Some notable OAA numbers from 2021-2023- all OF combined:

 

23 MCcormick

21 Margot

15 Kike & JBJ

12 Nimmo

12 Pache

8 Trout

7 Duvall

6 Dubon

2 Mookie, Rafaela

0 Abreu, Gallo

-2 Duran

-4 Franchy, THern

-6 Laureano, Tapia

-7 Grichuk

-9 Verdugo, Yoshida

-10 Renfroe

-11 Benintendi

-14 T Pham

-38 Schwarber

 

 

[Tedballgame]

I think the Red Sox feel they will have to make major moves this off season to improve the team and to keep the fan base interested. All the empty seats this past season have sent a clear message. I will be interested to see what they do.

[cp176]

He was 18 in '67, so I agree. Your answer has nothing to do with my point, anyway.

 

BTW, IMO, we did lose in those first 3 WS chances due to management not wanting to spend enough to get us over the top. In '75 and '78 we had a good GM, but were always one top pitcher away from a ring. Everyone knew it.

 

We sign Catfish Hunter and not the Yanks, what happens?

 

Anyway, the past does not matter to you, so why bring it up?

 

 

I'll first admit that I haven't been paying much attention lately but I did see this post. Had to make a point. I like our chances in '67 a lot more with Conigliaro on the field instead of down and out. As for '75, not having Rice in the lineup was a back breaker.

[mvp 78]

I think the Red Sox feel they will have to make major moves this off season to improve the team and to keep the fan base interested. All the empty seats this past season have sent a clear message. I will be interested to see what they do.

 

Attendance was higher in '23 than it was in '22 with all the star players they had under contract.

[mvp 78]

Duvall's defense has fallen off since '21 and is only going to get worse as he gets older.

[notin]

Yes, and he did have a +9 DRS and +11.2 UZR/150. OAA had him at just +2.

 

I'm still not sure, if he as good as Dugo was in 2023. The thing is, Dugo might not be that good in 2024, as well.

 

I think I'd be fine with trading Dugo and going with Duvall in RF with Abreu as his back-up. Abreu can also back up CF (to Rafaela) and LF (Duran) and probably get enough PAs to prove he deserves more, or not. We may not want to trade Ref, until we know more about Duran, Rafaela and Abreu, even if we do bring back Duvall.

 

If Abreu isn’t a starter (or a strong side of a platoon), leave him in Worcester until he’s needed.

 

Duvall makes more sense than any other option I can think of.

 

Not sure what one year of Verdugo is getting traded for…

[notin]

Duvall's defense has fallen off since '21 and is only going to get worse as he gets older.

 

He’s only played 178 games since 2021, and only 37 in RF.

 

But he is getting older…

[moonslav59]

I'll first admit that I haven't been paying much attention lately but I did see this post. Had to make a point. I like our chances in '67 a lot more with Conigliaro on the field instead of down and out. As for '75, not having Rice in the lineup was a back breaker.

 

Those teams, along with ‘78’s were good enough to win, when healthy, but we never seemed to go that extra step with the wallet, especially with pitching.

 

I did not mention ‘86 for a reason. We had pitching, but there were holes onthat team, too.

 

I give enormous credit to this ownership group that went that extra mile to make sure we built teams with as few flaws as possible. They hired the right guys to make sure we had some great windows of opportunity and had SPers that knew how to win.

 

I’m not sure we have 4 rings without JH. I wasn’t trying to slight some of our past GMs and leadership groups.

[Old Red]

Attendance was higher in '23 than it was in '22 with all the star players they had under contract.

 

I don’t think you can look too much into that. Lots of people go to Fenway for the experience of Fenway Park itself, and not so much the product on the field, and it’s been that way for years. 19,000+ showed up in Tampa last night to watch the Rays. The lowest attendance since the 1919 WS.

[Bellhorn04]

I don’t think you can look too much into that. Lots of people go to Fenway for the experience of Fenway Park itself, and not so much the product on the field, and it’s been that way for years. 19,000+ showed up in Tampa last night to watch the Rays. The lowest attendance since the 1919 WS.

 

NESN ratings would probably be more revealing than attendance figures.

[mvp 78]

I don’t think you can look too much into that. Lots of people go to Fenway for the experience of Fenway Park itself, and not so much the product on the field, and it’s been that way for years. 19,000+ showed up in Tampa last night to watch the Rays. The lowest attendance since the 1919 WS.

 

I was just refuting the "empty seats" comment. Major moves won't matter if they don't win.

 

Attendance is down to pre-2003 levels. Maybe it's just where the fanbase is? Are they burnt out? Is it a function of the rollercoaster the ownership has put us on?