Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[notin]

with what he gave Kluber, Mondesi and what he left on the table, he could have signed a decent pitcher last year. but he didn't. he went the garbage route. again, i have ZERO faith in this clown to do anything right.

 

Signing Bad free agents of going to happen with every GM. Perez and Richards turned out to be duds in 2021, but the team still made it to the ALCS. The big difference was that team actually added MLB caliber pitchers to the roster midseason. Not good pitchers, but at least they were guys good enough to last an entire season in MLB.

 

Bloom hasn’t added a pitcher to this team mid season since Unless that pitcher was DFAd…

[Hugh2]

Oh. You're one of those.

 

The question is, what decent starting pitcher could he of signed last year?

 

People will say Eovaldi and Wacha, but um....they were ours that year and we couldn't do crap with them. Also, you're not signing guys to one year. SIgning those guys last year might end up meaning they don't sign a top teir free agent pitcher this year and the pitching class is so much better.

 

I tend to look at things on a long-term horizon. Let's say the Sox go out and sign Yama this offseason, well, his next 5 years may be a LOT better than Verlander will be the next few years. 25>105

 

People will say "yeah but the Sox won't go out and sign anyone this offseason" and they very well may be right. But if they didn't touch the crop last year to reset and go after better options this year the overall strategy is good and much better to the long-term health of the organization. It's just hard to build goodwill with people after years of underperformance, injury, lackluster signings and the trading away of Betts.

[Bellhorn04]

The question is, what decent starting pitcher could he of signed last year?

 

People will say Eovaldi and Wacha, but um....they were ours that year and we couldn't do crap with them. Also, you're not signing guys to one year. SIgning those guys last year might end up meaning they don't sign a top teir free agent pitcher this year and the pitching class is so much better.

 

I tend to look at things on a long-term horizon. Let's say the Sox go out and sign Yama this offseason, well, his next 5 years may be a LOT better than Verlander will be the next few years. 25>105

 

People will say "yeah but the Sox won't go out and sign anyone this offseason" and they very well may be right. But if they didn't touch the crop last year to reset and go after better options this year the overall strategy is good and much better to the long-term health of the organization. It's just hard to build goodwill with people after years of underperformance, injury, lackluster signings and the trading away of Betts.

 

If Bloom was waiting for Year 5 to go for it, and he gets fired before he gets the chance, there's gonna be a whole lot of head-scratching about his patience, and the patience of the man he works for.

[cp176]

The question is, what decent starting pitcher could he of signed last year?

 

People will say Eovaldi and Wacha, but um....they were ours that year and we couldn't do crap with them. Also, you're not signing guys to one year. SIgning those guys last year might end up meaning they don't sign a top teir free agent pitcher this year and the pitching class is so much better.

 

I tend to look at things on a long-term horizon. Let's say the Sox go out and sign Yama this offseason, well, his next 5 years may be a LOT better than Verlander will be the next few years. 25>105

 

People will say "yeah but the Sox won't go out and sign anyone this offseason" and they very well may be right. But if they didn't touch the crop last year to reset and go after better options this year the overall strategy is good and much better to the long-term health of the organization. It's just hard to build goodwill with people after years of underperformance, injury, lackluster signings and the trading away of Betts.

 

I think that you are right on with this post. Would I have liked to have seen a better pitching staff this year - of course but who would it have been? What I will say is that it doesn't make people like me a member of a "posse" or whatever else if we really haven't liked the moves bloom has made in general since he has been hired. I think that I am a realist and what has he really done that would make me think that much is going to change during this off season? I'm not sure that he can get the job done even if JH decides to freely spend once again.

[moonslav59]

i would not be holding my breath

 

I'm not.

 

I've said, a few times, I'm not going to expect "this will be the winter we spend."

[moonslav59]

Signing Bad free agents of going to happen with every GM. Perez and Richards turned out to be duds in 2021, but the team still made it to the ALCS. The big difference was that team actually added MLB caliber pitchers to the roster midseason. Not good pitchers, but at least they were guys good enough to last an entire season in MLB.

 

Bloom hasn’t added a pitcher to this team mid season since Unless that pitcher was DFAd…

 

The weird thing is, he did best with his 2022 SP'er additions than 2021 or 2023, and that team had a worse record.

[moonslav59]

If Bloom was waiting for Year 5 to go for it, and he gets fired before he gets the chance, there's gonna be a whole lot of head-scratching about his patience, and the patience of the man he works for.

 

If he gets fired, it might be because it was a 4 year plan, and he took 5+.

[Bellhorn04]

The weird thing is, he did best with his 2022 SP'er additions than 2021 or 2023, and that team had a worse record.

 

The 2023 bullpen is better than the 2022 pen, we can say that much at least.

 

The 2023 W-L record isn't going to be much better than the 2022 record, if it's better at all.

[Bellhorn04]

If he gets fired, it might be because it was a 4 year plan, and he took 5+.

 

And if it was a 4 year plan, his inattention to the 2023 rotation is beyond mind-boggling.

[notin]

And if it was a 4 year plan, his inattention to the 2023 rotation is beyond mind-boggling.

 

The whole “getting injured pitchers back” so no other improvements are needed was just awful. I mean

 

1. We’re supposed to count on a bunch of pitchers who already got injured once?

2. What happens if they’re not full strength?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

With Julio Urias now Pariah Heep, the upcoming free agent pitching class for teams actually going for it comes down to overpay in the Yamamoto bidding war or risky consolations: inconsistent Snell, aging Gray, or closer-to-mediocre Nola and Giolito. Those are purportedly the best starters available.

 

We know none of those guys will "make sense" for this current front office, because -- if they're ever honest with fans -- the Red Sox can't possibly solve all their defensive issues in one off-season to become a legitimate contender. Better be prepared for the signing of a secondary starter like Montgomery, and maybe a Kyle Hendricks as another one-year/$10 mil special.

 

And as for the offense bludgeoning its way to contention -- hey, we're tied for third in OPS, and fifth in runs scored -- can anyone provide team stats that rank offensive proficiency (or ineptitude)... like BA or even making contact with a baserunner on third and less than two outs? 0-for-19 with 10 Ks with runners in scoring position doesn't mean our hitters actually suck -- they are non-existent.

[notin]

With Julio Urias now Pariah Heep, the upcoming free agent pitching class for teams actually going for it comes down to overpay in the Yamamoto bidding war or risky consolations: inconsistent Snell, aging Gray, or closer-to-mediocre Nola and Giolito. Those are purportedly the best starters available.

 

We know none of those guys will "make sense" for this current front office, because -- if they're ever honest with fans -- the Red Sox can't possibly solve all their defensive issues in one off-season to become a legitimate contender. Better be prepared for the signing of a secondary starter like Montgomery, and maybe a Kyle Hendricks as another one-year/$10 mil special.

 

And as for the offense bludgeoning its way to contention -- hey, we're tied for third in OPS, and fifth in runs scored -- can anyone provide team stats that rank offensive proficiency (or ineptitude)... like BA or even making contact with a baserunner on third and less than two outs? 0-for-19 with 10 Ks with runners in scoring position doesn't mean our hitters actually suck -- they are non-existent.

 

So you think Jordan Montgomery only get 1 year / $10mill?

 

I’m thinking 4 years $75-80mill. He fits into that Taijuan Walker/Jameson Taillon mold…

[mvp 78]

So you think Jordan Montgomery only get 1 year / $10mill?

 

I’m thinking 4 years $75-80mill. He fits into that Taijuan Walker/Jameson Taillon mold…

 

Sign me up for 1/10 for Montgomery on day 1.

[mvp 78]

And if it was a 4 year plan, his inattention to the 2023 rotation is beyond mind-boggling.

 

The plan was "hey, I'm going to load up in the pen with some bulk guys and that should take care of the 4-5 innings guys in the rotation." Didn't work out.

 

Sale - injury risk

Paxton - injury risk, lack of use

Whitlock - injury risk

Kluber - older, previous injury, reduced velo

Houck/Crawford - 4 inning guys

Pivetta - 5th starter at best

 

The upside was there for a good rotation, but the downside was what we got to see in 2023. Reaping. Sowing. Yada yada yada.

[mvp 78]

as bad as this year has been, i could get excited for next season if the Sox sign a couple of quality SPs. guys like Casas, Duran, Rafaela, Abreu and Bello give me hope.

 

I hopeful for the guys that are in AA right now too. I think this team should be good going forward, but it needs to be managed better. They need someone that can figure out how to build a rotation and Bloom hasn't been able to do that yet.

[Bellhorn04]

The plan was "hey, I'm going to load up in the pen with some bulk guys and that should take care of the 4-5 innings guys in the rotation." Didn't work out.

 

Sale - injury risk

Paxton - injury risk, lack of use

Whitlock - injury risk

Kluber - older, previous injury, reduced velo

Houck/Crawford - 4 inning guys

Pivetta - 5th starter at best

 

The upside was there for a good rotation, but the downside was what we got to see in 2023. Reaping. Sowing. Yada yada yada.

 

And frankly, the over bettors probably won money on the number of innings we got out of Sale and Paxton.

[mvp 78]

If Bloom was waiting for Year 5 to go for it, and he gets fired before he gets the chance, there's gonna be a whole lot of head-scratching about his patience, and the patience of the man he works for.

 

At that point, couldn't you just let the organization run itself. Bloom isn't really drafting or signing the IFA guys on his own. Maybe he has a say in the 1st or 2nd round, but beyond that it's scouting and guesswork.

 

Couldn't BOH have done this for 5 years if they were going to punt?

 

Did they just need a sacrificial lamb for a few years while they sucked before they promoted CIA plant BOH to CBO?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

So you think Jordan Montgomery only get 1 year / $10mill?

 

I’m thinking 4 years $75-80mill. He fits into that Taijuan Walker/Jameson Taillon mold…

 

That's not what I said. I said a Hendricks-type will be another 1/$10M. Your numbers on Monty look about right.

 

Dombro did ok with Walker, who's 15-5 -- that's a pretty good #3 for a legit World Series contender.

[notin]

Sign me up for 1/10 for Montgomery on day 1.

 

Even at $80/4, it’s not horrible…

[mvp 78]

Even at $80/4, it’s not horrible…

 

I think he's a solid mid-rotation guy. Sox don't have a great development process for the rotation, so they'll need to buy a few in the short term if they aren't going to trade for any (I know one poster that will disagree).

 

Someway, somehow, they need 2 rotation guys that can give them good INNINGS.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The plan was "hey, I'm going to load up in the pen with some bulk guys and that should take care of the 4-5 innings guys in the rotation." Didn't work out.

 

Sale - injury risk

Paxton - injury risk, lack of use

Whitlock - injury risk

Kluber - older, previous injury, reduced velo

Houck/Crawford - 4 inning guys

Pivetta - 5th starter at best

 

The upside was there for a good rotation, but the downside was what we got to see in 2023. Reaping. Sowing. Yada yada yada.

 

There were zealots who thought that rotation was so deep and loaded -- with Cy Young arms like it was still 2017.

 

There were others who knew from Day One that plan was a backfire waiting to happen -- just like when the actually better aging, injury-prone rotation from '22 inevitably broke down.

[Elktonnick]

I do not know why anyone would assume Bloom.had any organized plan.

[notin]

with what he gave Kluber, Mondesi and what he left on the table, he could have signed a decent pitcher last year. but he didn't. he went the garbage route. again, i have ZERO faith in this clown to do anything right.

 

Not bringing in Mondesi does allow you to upgrade from Kluber to Mike Clevinger or Noah Syndergaard…

[sk7326]

There were zealots who thought that rotation was so deep and loaded -- with Cy Young arms like it was still 2017.

 

There were others who knew from Day One that plan was a backfire waiting to happen -- just like when the actually better aging, injury-prone rotation from '22 inevitably broke down.

 

Honestly, given the prices of the players they let go, it looks much worse. Like, Eduardo Rodriguez at that price and Nathan Eovaldi for even a bit above what the Rangers got him for (and that even programs in his annual injury) does not look shabby now.

[Hugh2]

There were zealots who thought that rotation was so deep and loaded -- with Cy Young arms like it was still 2017.

 

There were others who knew from Day One that plan was a backfire waiting to happen -- just like when the actually better aging, injury-prone rotation from '22 inevitably broke down.

 

I don't really remember anyone saying that, there were those who were saying if everyone was healthy that the rotation would be crowded and had potential and that was true.

 

Sale got hurt

Whitlock got hurt

Houck got hurt

Kluber got hurt (ok he just sucked)

Paxton, not injured but obviously fatigued and slowing down.

 

More than half of their opening-day rotation missed significant time. The way Sale and Paxton were pitching back in June was promising, after a slow start the pitching staff was starting to look really good and then it fell apart. It pretty much looked like what people said could happen WAS happening. I know because I was the captain of that club and I was also very specific to say there was a ton of injury risk to this rotation and we saw exactly that happen throughout the year. So, I don't think anyone sold anyone a false bill of goods here.

[Hugh2]

There were zealots who thought that rotation was so deep and loaded -- with Cy Young arms like it was still 2017.

 

There were others who knew from Day One that plan was a backfire waiting to happen -- just like when the actually better aging, injury-prone rotation from '22 inevitably broke down.

 

Who said that?

[Hugh2]

I remember being BIG on the Kodai Senga bandwagon.

 

Imagine how much better this team would be with him in the rotation instead of adding Kluber, that would also of pushed one of Houk/Whitlock to the pen and maybe even keeping them more healthy.

 

Probably 4-5 more wins at least and in serious contention for the WC right now. That's ok....I'll take me some Yama

[Bellhorn04]

I remember being BIG on the Kodai Senga bandwagon.

 

Imagine how much better this team would be with him in the rotation instead of adding Kluber, that would also of pushed one of Houk/Whitlock to the pen and maybe even keeping them more healthy.

 

Probably 4-5 more wins at least and in serious contention for the WC right now. That's ok....I'll take me some Yama

 

As it turns out, Eflin and Senga were the best values in the 2023 free agent market for starters.

[Old Red]

And frankly, the over bettors probably won money on the number of innings we got out of Sale and Paxton.

 

Remember when Cora didn’t want to start Sale on opening day to take the stress of him, and let him relax, and enjoy his birthday? Glad that worked out so well.

[Bellhorn04]

Remember when Cora didn’t want to start Sale on opening day to take the stress of him, and let him relax, and enjoy his birthday? Glad that worked out so well.

 

Yes, I was one of those who said no worries, Kluber can do the job!

 

Pollyanna really got her ass kicked this year by Bloom. He left the poor girl for dead.