Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[Bellhorn04]

yep. he pays Yoshi stupid money but won't pay Wacha reasonable money. Bloom has not done one f***ing thing that has impressed me in four years.

 

His best moves have generally been the fringe-y kind, like Wacha last year and Turner and Duvall this year. But they'll be gone next year, so there's no long-term value.

[Bellhorn04]

Yoshi is a little rich but not crazy. But he really should be a full time DH.

 

He should be. And that makes him a very expensive DH - only a little cheaper than JDM's contract, when you add in the posting fee of $15 mill, which is very real money even if it doesn't count for luxury tax calcs.

[moonslav59]

tell me who is trading a #1 SP for an unproven albeit very promising prospects??

 

It still happens.

 

Luis Castillo was one example.

 

[moonslav59]

Yamamoto is a must sign IMO. then and only then we sign Snell [1} or Nola {2}. I like Gray but he is getting up there in age. I f we dont get Yamamoto then I dont sign any of those other 4 because on their own they won't make enough of a difference. Out of your 2nd group of ideas I stay FAR FAR away from Strohman and i doubt Kershaw signs anywhere but LA. No way E-Rod comes back to Boston and I don't see any of the others worth the cost it would take to sign any of them.

 

The thing about getting Gray is that the length of the deal would likely be shorter than others, due to his age.

 

I'm not optimistic we outbid everyone for 2 top 7 or 8 pitchers, but I think we need to do just that, or trade for one while signing a top 4 SP'er.

[moonslav59]

Wong would be a fine backup.

 

If Teel's bat is great, he can DH on "rest days." Yes, Wong would make for a fin e back-up, and we'd trade McGuire.

[moonslav59]

Then why doesn’t Bloom do it?

 

My theory is that the team's plan has been to wait on adding big SP'er contracts until the very end of the rebuild process, as they tend to decline quickly after signing.

 

One example was signing Pablito and HRam before Price, instead of Scherzer, first then _____.

[moonslav59]

I realize that. At least we can see there's a possibility of making good signings that don't cost a mint.

 

We could trade Mayer in a package for an ace and that could blow up spectacularly in our faces.

 

We all know there is no guarantee of success with any signing or any trade.

 

Indeed, and watching Mayer go on to greatness as the SP'er get implodes would be a double whammy hurt.

[moonslav59]

You cited you wanted mid-range signings and accepted they are not guarantees. So they’re essentially a gamble. If you accept that you have to gamble, you should also accept that you will occasionally lose.

 

I’m all for the “mid range” signings, because they don’t require 7-8 years of commitment. But some of them are simply not going to work out and a big part of that is predicting the future just isn’t the exact science many want it to be…

 

The difference between $40M/3 and $50M/4 deals vs $7M/1 & $10M/1 deals is likely a better gamble than $50M/4 vs $200M/8 to $250M/8 deals.

[moonslav59]

He should be. And that makes him a very expensive DH - only a little cheaper than JDM's contract, when you add in the posting fee of $15 mill, which is very real money even if it doesn't count for luxury tax calcs.

 

Counting inflation and the posting fee, the Yoshi AAV is about like JD's- maybe less but with less production, too.

[notin]

it's not like our best pitcher from the previous season was hanging out there available at a reasonable cost. oh....wait.

 

Wacha was asking for 2 years $30mill, at which not only did Boston pass but also several other teams, becsuse per MLBTR, that’s actually a lot for a 2 year deal for a SP.

 

Sam Diego came along with this heavy incentive multi-year deal that could be worth up to $41.5mill over three. But Wacha is really just another one of those players where talent isn’t the issue and chances are pretty good he finishes with less that 130 IP again for the sixth straight year (although counting 2020 is not entirely fair). This situation is not likely to change as Wacha gets older…

[notin]

My theory is that the team's plan has been to wait on adding big SP'er contracts until the very end of the rebuild process, as they tend to decline quickly after signing.

 

One example was signing Pablito and HRam before Price, instead of Scherzer, first then _____.

 

We have no idea if the Sox ever talked to Scherzer. For all we know, he might have been very high on their radar. And that contract Washington gave him looked absolutely deadly at the time, so I’m not surprised the Sox (or anyone else) didn’t try to top it…

[moonslav59]

We have no idea if the Sox ever talked to Scherzer. For all we know, he might have been very high on their radar. And that contract Washington gave him looked absolutely deadly at the time, so I’m not surprised the Sox (or anyone else) didn’t try to top it…

 

My point was they were not interested in Scherzer, because they went for building up the foundation BEFORE going for an expensive pitcher.

 

Many were surprised we topped everyone for Price, the next year.

 

They may be surprised we outbid everyone for a top SP'er, this coming winter... or not.

[notin]

My point was they were not interested in Scherzer, because they went for building up the foundation BEFORE going for an expensive pitcher.

 

Many were surprised we topped everyone for Price, the next year.

 

They may be surprised we outbid everyone for a top SP'er, this coming winter... or not.

 

And my point was maybe they were in on Scherzer. A lot of negotiations and offers go unreported. And, at least according to Mookie, some reported offers never happened…

[moonslav59]

And my point was maybe they were in on Scherzer. A lot of negotiations and offers go unreported. And, at least according to Mookie, some reported offers never happened…

 

Okay, I misread your position.

 

I do see value in holding off on major SP'er signings until the instant we feel a window is open, and not beforehand.

 

[Larry Cook]

Japanese lhp pitcher inmaga is going to be posted this year.

 

We should go balls out for him.

[Duran Is The Man]

Wacha was asking for 2 years $30mill, at which not only did Boston pass but also several other teams, becsuse per MLBTR, that’s actually a lot for a 2 year deal for a SP.

 

Sam Diego came along with this heavy incentive multi-year deal that could be worth up to $41.5mill over three. But Wacha is really just another one of those players where talent isn’t the issue and chances are pretty good he finishes with less that 130 IP again for the sixth straight year (although counting 2020 is not entirely fair). This situation is not likely to change as Wacha gets older…

 

maybe i'm not understanding his contract, but the way i see it, SD is only paying him $7.5M this year with TEAM options for the next two years at $16.5/year. Wacha has a player option for $6M for next year. looks like SD got the best of this deal.

[moonslav59]

maybe i'm not understanding his contract, but the way i see it, SD is only paying him $7.5M this year with TEAM options for the next two years at $16.5/year. Wacha has a player option for $6M for next year. looks like SD got the best of this deal.

 

It's not a player option for $6M/1 it's $18.5/3 or about $6.1M x 3.

 

Cots...

 

4 years/$26M (2023-26)

signed by San Diego as a free agent 2/16/23

$3.5M signing bonus

23:$4M, 24-25: club option at $16M annually

if club declines its 2024-25 option, Wacha has the right to exercise a player option for 3 years/$18.5M (24:$6.5M, 25:$6M, 26:$6M)

performance bonuses for 2023 and any player option seasons: $500,000 each for 20, 25 games started. $1M for 30 GS

 

But, yes, it seems like a good team contract and one I wish the Sox would have gotten Wacha for.

[mvp 78]

His best moves have generally been the fringe-y kind, like Wacha last year and Turner and Duvall this year. But they'll be gone next year, so there's no long-term value.

 

Loading up on fringy moves keeps them out of playoff contention.

[moonslav59]

His best moves have generally been the fringe-y kind, like Wacha last year and Turner and Duvall this year. But they'll be gone next year, so there's no long-term value.

 

To me, he's done worse in this "fringy" area than I expected. For every Wacha, Hill, Duvall and Strahm, there are 2 Richards, Perez (twice), Kluber, Kike II and Diekmans.

 

He's big on a few low cost guys like Schreiber, Refsnyder, Bernardino, Arroyo, Reyes, McGuire and others, but the long list of failures on those types of deals is scary, too, especially with RP'ers.

 

His biggest signings look to be his worst, so that makes the lesser ones look better, I guess.

 

Story

Yoshida

Richards

Kluber

 

Although Jansen at $8M x 2 looks good, if you call that "big."

[Bellhorn04]

To me, he's done worse in this "fringy" area than I expected. For every Wacha, Hill, Duvall and Strahm, there are 2 Richards, Perez (twice), Kluber, Kike II and Diekmans.

 

He's big on a few low cost guys like Schreiber, Refsnyder, Bernardino, Arroyo, Reyes, McGuire and others, but the long list of failures on those types of deals is scary, too, especially with RP'ers.

 

His biggest signings look to be his worst, so that makes the lesser ones look better, I guess.

 

Story

Yoshida

Richards

Kluber

 

Although Jansen at $8M x 2 looks good, if you call that "big."

 

I'd call Jansen $16M X 2.

[moonslav59]

I'd call Jansen $16M X 2.

 

Ooops

[Dipre]

No chance do they sign Yamamoto AND Snell or Nola. No f***ing way.

 

Yama-San and a mid-tier sign would be their absolute limit.

[mvp 78]

Angels are open to trading Trout.

 

Trout

80M

 

Story

Duran

Romero

[Bellhorn04]

Angels are open to trading Trout.

 

Trout

80M

 

Story

Duran

Romero

 

Mike's body seems to be breaking down. Might be another DH in waiting.

[mvp 78]

Mike's body seems to be breaking down. Might be another DH in waiting.

 

We love those!

[vegasbob]

Trout may have a full year in him at some point but he has played in 36-119-82 games ( so far) over the past 3 seasons. At age 32 his productivity will decline not increase over a reasonable sample size. Now granted, Mike hasn't had the benefit of Cora "rest" days, so there is that possibility.

 

He is under contract through 2030 at $35.5 million/year. If the Angels really wanted to move him, they would have to eat at least 50% of that deal. Still a big price for a DH in waiting. Ohtani wil present some team with a similar dilemma.

 

Arte Moreno , the clueless Angel owner, could have sold this team for about $3Billion a year ago, with Trout and Ohtani under contract. Now he pretty much has a losing team ( 8 years running) and no shot at Ohtani, with Trout wanting to go to a winning team. Trout is an East Coast guy, so the Phillies, Mets, Nationals could be players. Yankees don't want him unless they could get the fool Angels to swap contracts for Stanton.

[Nick]

Sept. 11: LHP Chris Sale pushed back a couple of days

After Sale's latest sluggish outing since coming off the injured list, the Red Sox have decided to give him two extra days of rest. Rather than pitching on Thursday against the Yankees, Sale is slated to start in Toronto on Saturday. In six starts since his return to action on Aug. 11, Sale is 1-2 with a 5.53 ERA. He has pitched five innings in only two of those outings, and hasn't gone deeper than that.

 

"Rest, that would be good for him," Red Sox manager Alex Cora said when asked about the motivation to push Sale back. "Just to work on a few things during the week and then be ready for Saturday."

 

I am officially giving up on Sale. Horrible extension. We sure do waste money.

[moonslav59]

Sept. 11: LHP Chris Sale pushed back a couple of days

After Sale's latest sluggish outing since coming off the injured list, the Red Sox have decided to give him two extra days of rest. Rather than pitching on Thursday against the Yankees, Sale is slated to start in Toronto on Saturday. In six starts since his return to action on Aug. 11, Sale is 1-2 with a 5.53 ERA. He has pitched five innings in only two of those outings, and hasn't gone deeper than that.

 

"Rest, that would be good for him," Red Sox manager Alex Cora said when asked about the motivation to push Sale back. "Just to work on a few things during the week and then be ready for Saturday."

 

I am officially giving up on Sale. Horrible extension. We sure do waste money.

 

Just "rest" him until 2025.

[Randy Red Sox]

Just "rest" him until 2025.

 

LOL- good one

[moonslav59]

LOL- good one

 

Cora can set a new standard.