Red Sox: Off Season '23-'24

[dgalehouse]

I would not trade Duran. I think he can be a catalyst to this ballclub. He provides a spark to the offense . And I don't think he has reached his full potential as yet. Would definitely keep him, Casas and Rafaela.

[Larry Cook]

I would not trade Duran. I think he can be a catalyst to this ballclub. He provides a spark to the offense . And I don't think he has reached his full potential as yet. Would definitely keep him, Casas and Rafaela.

 

I think abreau and Rafeala have earned a shot at Boston in spring training.

Duran is such a defensive liability that it is hard to see him playing regularly.

[Nick]

I think abreau and Rafeala have earned a shot at Boston in spring training.

Duran is such a defensive liability that it is hard to see him playing regularly.

 

Stick him in left field. He has athleticism to get better defensively, unlike Yoshida.

[moonslav59]

I think abreau and Rafeala have earned a shot at Boston in spring training.

Duran is such a defensive liability that it is hard to see him playing regularly.

 

Duran would be okay in LF and better than Yoshida and Refsnyder.

 

I'm not sure I hand a FT OF slot to Rafaela and Abreu without having an insurance piece in place, in case either struggles. I'm fine with counting on one of the two to hold one slot (CF or RF.) I'd plan so both could be FT'ers without squeezing a good player to the bench.

[Old Red]

Stick him in left field. He has athleticism to get better defensively, unlike Yoshida.

 

To me Duran is still a question mark on what he can do. He had tailed off big time before he got hurt. Abreu is still a question mark on what he can do full time, and so is the RAF Man at this point, so to count on all 3 next year full time to me is risky business.

[moonslav59]

To me Duran is still a question mark on what he can do. He had tailed off big time before he got hurt. Abreu is still a question mark on what he can do full time, and so is the RAF Man at this point, so to count on all 3 next year full time to me is risky business.

 

Agreed. Even holding down 2 OF slots for all 3 to fill may prove to be a mistake. Having Yoshi start at FT DH does allow for him to move back to LF, if one of the 3 fails, but Refsnyder is not a true 4th OF'er. He is limited to platoon value, only, and the short end of that, to boot.

 

We'd need to keep Dugo, or extend him as notin wants, or sign a guy like Duvall.

[Larry Cook]

Duran would be okay in LF and better than Yoshida and Refsnyder.

 

I'm not sure I hand a FT OF slot to Rafaela and Abreu without having an insurance piece in place, in case either struggles. I'm fine with counting on one of the two to hold one slot (CF or RF.) I'd plan so both could be FT'ers without squeezing a good player to the bench.

 

I think if they both have a good spring training, they deserve to stay in Boston. Abreau has excellent on base potential. And Rafeala, has tremendous potential to be a difference maker in center field

[moonslav59]

I think if they both have a good spring training, they deserve to stay in Boston. Abreau has excellent on base potential. And Rafeala, has tremendous potential to be a difference maker in center field

 

I agree. I guess it comes down to this: are we all okay with not adding a RH'd bat to the OF and going with this on opening day?

 

DH Yoshida

LF Duran-Refsnyder (Yoshida as depth)

CF Rafaela- Abreu (Duran as depth)

RF Verdugo- Abreu (Refsnyder as depth)

 

How about this: trade Dugo and don't add a RH'd bat in the OF?

 

DH Yoshida

LF Duran- Refnsyder (Yoshida in LF more often)

CF- Rafaela (Duran in CF more often)

RF- Abreu (Refsnyder in RF more often)

(Rosier on the farm as depth)

 

OR

Trade Dugo and sign Duvall"

DH Yoshida

LF Duran-Refsnyder (Duvall as depth)

CF Rafaela (Duvall as depth)

RF Duvall- Abreu (Ref as emergency depth)

Note: if we sign Duvall to what Dugo would make in arb, it would be no added cost to the budget.

[notin]

To me Duran is still a question mark on what he can do. He had tailed off big time before he got hurt. Abreu is still a question mark on what he can do full time, and so is the RAF Man at this point, so to count on all 3 next year full time to me is risky business.

 

Rafaela at least has a defensive floor. If the Sox keep Verdugo in RF, left field may or may not even be available, depending on what the new GM/CBO does with Yoshida…

[Larry Cook]

I agree. I guess it comes down to this: are we all okay with not adding a RH'd bat to the OF and going with this on opening day?

 

DH Yoshida

LF Duran-Refsnyder (Yoshida as depth)

CF Rafaela- Abreu (Duran as depth)

RF Verdugo- Abreu (Refsnyder as depth)

 

How about this: trade Dugo and don't add a RH'd bat in the OF?

 

DH Yoshida

LF Duran- Refnsyder (Yoshida in LF more often)

CF- Rafaela (Duran in CF more often)

RF- Abreu (Refsnyder in RF more often)

(Rosier on the farm as depth)

 

OR

Trade Dugo and sign Duvall"

DH Yoshida

LF Duran-Refsnyder (Duvall as depth)

CF Rafaela (Duvall as depth)

RF Duvall- Abreu (Ref as emergency depth)

Note: if we sign Duvall to what Dugo would make in arb, it would be no added cost to the budget.

 

This is a perfectly acceptable plan. I do think rosier could actually contribute in 2024. Dude makes lots of contact and has speed to burn

[moonslav59]

This is a perfectly acceptable plan. I do think rosier could actually contribute in 2024. Dude makes lots of contact and has speed to burn

 

I still like the thrid option best, and it may not cost a penny more, plus we get something for Dugo.

[notin]

I would not trade Duran. I think he can be a catalyst to this ballclub. He provides a spark to the offense . And I don't think he has reached his full potential as yet. Would definitely keep him, Casas and Rafaela.

 

It has to be an option to consider if you want pitching…

[moonslav59]

It has to be an option to consider if you want pitching…

 

It should be a requirement for anyone who says I would not trade _____ to have to add who they would trade, then.

 

(And not Dalbec, Mata and Reyes for an ace, either.)

[Larry Cook]

I still like the thrid option best, and it may not cost a penny more, plus we get something for Dugo.

 

Any trade involving Miami will cost a package headlined by either verdugo or cassas depending on the quality of pitcher we trade for.

[Old Red]

Any trade involving Miami will cost a package headlined by either verdugo or cassas depending on the quality of pitcher we trade for.

 

Verdugo is not any headliner especially on his last arb year.

[moonslav59]

Any trade involving Miami will cost a package headlined by either verdugo or cassas depending on the quality of pitcher we trade for.

 

I don't think MIA wants a one year OF'er like Dugo.

 

They may or may not value Duran, but he should give more return than Dugo.

 

Rafaela or Abreu might be more in line with what they want.

 

Anthony could be a "headline," but he's "untouchable" to many, here.

 

Most of the Marlin pitchers mentioned have 5-6 years of control, so we will have to trade a big time young player or prospect to get one.

 

Dugo and Duran are not headliners.

 

Mayer, Casas, Anthony and maybe Rafaela or Bleis, but the latter two would take some other higher second tier guys like Wikelman, Zanetello or Perales.

[dgalehouse]

I would think anything Miami does would be to better their team. They are not in business to help the Red Sox. I don't see how they would be interested in Verdugo.

[a700hitter]

C. Wong

1B Casas

2B Reyes

SS Story

3B Devers

OF Duran

OF Rafaela

OF Abreu

OF/DH Yoshida, Duvall

INF/DH Turner

INF Urias

 

P Sale

P Bello

P Crawford

P ?

P ?

 

BP Whitlock

BP Martin

BP Houck

BP Wink

BP ?

CL Jansen

 

Here’s my starting point.

 

edits in red

Edited September 17, 2023 by a700hitter

[moonslav59]

C. Wong

1B Casas

2B Reyes

SS Story

3B Devers

OF Duran

OF Rafaela

OF Abreu

OF/DH Yoshida, Duvall

INF/DH Turner

INF Urias

 

P Sale

P Bello

P ?

P ?

P ?

 

BP Whitlock

BP Martin

BP Houck

BP ?

BP ?

CL ?

 

Here’s my starting point.

 

You lost me on Sale as the #1. I struggled to write him in as our #6.

 

No Jansen?

[Nick]

C. Wong

1B Casas

2B Reyes

SS Story

3B Devers

OF Duran

OF Rafaela

OF Abreu

OF/DH Yoshida, Duvall

INF/DH Turner

INF Urias

 

P Sale

P Bello

P ?

P ?

P ?

 

BP Whitlock

BP Martin

BP Houck

BP ?

BP ?

CL ?

 

Here’s my starting point.

 

It's a good starting point.

 

Jansen has another year left so he's our closer for next year.

I would pencil in Pivetta, Winckowski, Crawford and Bernardino on the roster for pitching.

[moonslav59]

It's a good starting point.

 

Jansen has another year left so he's our closer for next year.

I would pencil in Pivetta, Winckowski, Crawford and Bernardino on the roster for pitching.

 

Crawford, for sure.

 

Sale as the #1, no way that can be our starting point.

[Old Red]

Crawford, for sure.

 

Sale as the #1, no way that can be our starting point.

 

I agree with your earlier post that at the most Sale shouldn’t be penciled in higher than a 6.

[moonslav59]

I agree with your earlier post that at the most Sale shouldn’t be penciled in higher than a 6.

 

He could end up being an ace of a solid #3, but planning on it is a big mistake.

[Elktonnick]

I agree with your earlier post that at the most Sale shouldn’t be penciled in higher than a 6.

 

I all seriousness, the laws of probality say between now and next June Sale will be on the IL.

[a700hitter]

You lost me on Sale as the #1. I struggled to write him in as our #6.

 

No Jansen?

I didn’t write him in as the #1. I wrote him in for for 1 of the 5 SP slots.

[a700hitter]

It's a good starting point.

 

Jansen has another year left so he's our closer for next year.

I would pencil in Pivetta, Winckowski, Crawford and Bernardino on the roster for pitching.

If Jansen is still under contract, he would be the closer. I didn’t realize it was a straight 2 year deal without options and doodads. I would move on from Pivetta.

 

I forgot about Crawford. He could compete for SP slot or BP. I guess that I would also keep Wink because he is cheap.

[Larry Cook]

If Jansen is still under contract, he would be the closer. I didn’t realize it was a straight 2 year deal without options and doodads. I would move on from Pivetta.

 

I forgot about Crawford. He could compete for SP slot or BP. I guess that I would also keep Wink because he is cheap.

 

I thought pivetta was pretty effective once he moved to the bullpen.

[moonslav59]

I thought pivetta was pretty effective once he moved to the bullpen.

 

He's been okay in his second stint as a starter, this year, too.

 

He went 6.1, today with just 2 ER.

 

SP and first 2 RP outings to start 2023:

6.15 ERA (5.47 FIP)

 

Next 15 games as RP only:

1.51 (2.42)

 

Last 10 games, before today (5 GS/5 RP)

5.44 ERA (4.59)

4.69 ERA, if you add today and make it his last 11 games.

 

His last 6 GS

7.1 3 ER 5H 0BB 10K

5.0 2 ER 4H 2BB 8K

4.1 4 ER 5H 3BB 7K

4.2 3 ER 7H 2BB 5K

5.1 3 ER 4H 1BB 10K

6.1 2 ER 4H 0BB 6K

 

Add last RP games of 3 or more IP

4.0 1 2 2 6

5.0 2 4 1 8

6.0 0 0 2 13

5.0 0 3 1 5

4.0 4 6 2 2

5.0 2 3 1 8

3.0 1 2 0 5

 

These are all his long outins since the start of July.

 

He does better in long relief, but he's been okay as a SP'er, too.

 

Edited September 17, 2023 by moonslav59

[Old Red]

He's been okay in his second stint as a starter, this year, too.

 

He went 6.1, today with just 2 ER.

 

SP and first 2 RP outings to start 2023:

6.15 ERA (5.47 FIP)

 

Next 15 games as RP only:

1.51 (2.42)

 

Last 10 games, before today (5 GS/5 RP)

5.44 ERA (4.59)

4.69 ERA, if you add today and make it his last 11 games.

 

His last 6 GS

7.1 3 ER 5H 0BB 10K

5.0 2 ER 4H 2BB 8K

4.1 4 ER 5H 3BB 7K

4.2 3 ER 7H 2BB 5K

5.1 3 ER 4H 1BB 10K

6.1 2 ER 4H 0BB 6K

 

Add last RP games of 3 or more IP

4.0 1 2 2 6

5.0 2 4 1 8

6.0 0 0 2 13

5.0 0 3 1 5

4.0 4 6 2 2

5.0 2 3 1 8

3.0 1 2 0 5

 

These are all his long outins since the start of July.

 

He does better in long relief, but he's been okay as a SP'er, too.

 

 

Pivetta has his ups, and downs every year. Let’s remember why he got taken out of the rotation in the first place. The best thing about him is he shows up every game, and takes his turn, which is a novelty for the Sox.

[a700hitter]

C. Wong

1B Casas

2B Reyes

SS Story

3B Devers

OF Duran

OF Rafaela

OF Abreu

OF/DH Yoshida, Duvall

INF/DH Turner

INF Urias

 

P Sale

P Bello

P Crawford

P ?

P ?

 

BP Whitlock

BP Martin

BP Houck

BP Wink

BP ?

CL Jansen

 

Here’s my starting point.

 

edits in red

 

A big bat is needed to protect Devers

 

2 top of the rotation innings eating Starting pitchers are needed.

 

Also, something that would cost nothing would be some fielding practice and emphasis on base running. The fielding throughout baseball sucks. It wouldn’t take much to get to the middle of the pack from the bottom of the steaming pile of dogs hit. Base running doesn’t require much other than drilling in some knowledge to prevent the season long stupidity that we witnessed.

 

Edit: What do people think about Snell as one of the starting pitcher acquisitions?

Edited September 18, 2023 by a700hitter