Trade Deadline 2023

[Nick]

I'm extremely happy with the emergence of Duran, Casas, Wong and Bello.

 

Bloom did extend Devers.

 

I guess we can blame Bloom for signing injury prone players such as Sale, Paxton and Story.

 

I was okay with Kike signing had he played centerfield and 2B, not shortstop. I am NOT saying I knew beforehand Kike was bad at short. I had no idea.

 

Kluber just sucks.

 

I like this team.

[notin]

I'm extremely happy with the emergence of Duran, Casas, Wong and Bello.

 

Bloom did extend Devers.

 

I guess we can blame Bloom for signing injury prone players such as Sale, Paxton and Story.

 

I was okay with Kike signing had he played centerfield and 2B, not shortstop. I am NOT saying I knew beforehand Kike was bad at short. I had no idea.

 

Kluber just sucks.

 

I like this team.

 

Bloom didn’t sign Sale.

 

I also worry l wouldn’t call Story “injury prone.” He might have been damaged goods (which is not the same thing), but he never missed any time before he got to Boston…

[Old Red]

Bloom didn’t sign Sale.

 

I also worry l wouldn’t call Story “injury prone.” He might have been damaged goods (which is not the same thing), but he never missed any time before he got to Boston…

 

Being damaged goods was even worse.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bloom was hired to field a sustainable, competitive ballclub , while keeping the spending down . He is in charge and we have to assume that he is the one making the decisions. And he has to be responsible for the results. Henry is a billionaire, who doesn't really know a heater from a sweeper from a slider from a hoagie.

 

If Nomar was still around, he could tell you the difference between a grinder and a hero. But his back-up Lou Merloni would then extoll the virtues of a sub.

[dgalehouse]

If Nomar was still around, he could tell you the difference between a grinder and a hero. But his back-up Lou Merloni would then extoll the virtues of a sub.

 

I'm getting hungry.

[Larry Cook]

I'm extremely happy with the emergence of Duran, Casas, Wong and Bello.

 

Bloom did extend Devers.

 

I guess we can blame Bloom for signing injury prone players such as Sale, Paxton and Story.

 

I was okay with Kike signing had he played centerfield and 2B, not shortstop. I am NOT saying I knew beforehand Kike was bad at short. I had no idea.

 

Kluber just sucks.

 

I like this team.

 

And I like some of the guys at Worcester being able to help soon!

 

Center fielder Rafeala is just about ready now

Catcher scott is very close, but not the best defensively

[mvp 78]

And I like some of the guys at Worcester being able to help soon!

 

Center fielder Rafeala is just about ready now

Catcher scott is very close, but not the best defensively

 

Scott is interesting because he hasn't caught for very long and is still learning. He's better defensively than Nathan Hickey who's been behind the dish forever.

 

I do like Abreu too.

[moonslav59]

I basically agree on how JH sees things, which I like to call a sea change because he chose an executive coming from the Tampa Rays system, where they excel at spotting and developing talent without spending big bucks for it. I think the disaster of the 2019 Sox team, coming as it did immediately after the incredible success (with very talented players in both seasons) of 2018, convinced him to try something different.

 

As you have said, for decades the Sox have been good at developing position players, but not pitchers, whom they routinely acquired on the open market (and paid good money for). That's how they ended the 86 year drought and then won 3 more WS, more than any other MLB team, 2003 to today. Today it sure seems as though you can pay a lot of money and players for just one starter--and not get that much in return. Price and Sale of the 2019 Sox team are the perfect example. I believe the White Sox got prospect Moncada as part of the Sale sale.

 

I think JH started the current plan with Ben, but gave up after the 3 last place finishes were just too much to handle. The fans and media were irate. He then switched gears from 1st to 5th, almost overnight.

 

Maybe, this time he lets the plan run its course,

[Bellhorn04]

I think JH started the current plan with Ben, but gave up after the 3 last place finishes were just too much to handle.

 

Hard to say. Ben was sort of the natural in-house replacement for Theo.

 

Plus they spent plenty in the pre-2015 offseason, so you might say that was when the patience ran out.

[Duran Is The Man]

How he was perceived by fans. I think trading Mookie really shook up the fanbase in their beliefs of ownership and the direction of this franchise.

 

Mookie fWAR

2020 2.8

2021 3.9 (his "injured/down" year)

2022 6.5

2023 4.7 (6.6 projected)

 

Seems like this team could have still used him in the lineup.

 

You nailed it. My opinion of JH was low after he fired DD and then went to nothing after trading Mookie.

[notin]

You nailed it. My opinion of JH was low after he fired DD and then went to nothing after trading Mookie.

 

DD looked like it was time to go.

 

After a great initial run, his 4th year left an 84 win team with a $240mill payroll, nearly $300mill tied up in 3 oft-injured pitchers, and no help coming up from below. And all this while the AL East was getting tougher.

 

He wasn’t fired without some sort of reasoning…

[Duran Is The Man]

DD looked like it was time to go.

 

After a great initial run, his 4th year left an 84 win team with a $240mill payroll, nearly $300mill tied up in 3 oft-injured pitchers, and no help coming up from below. And all this while the AL East was getting tougher.

 

He wasn’t fired without some sort of reasoning…

 

he had a bad year. third place after three straight AL East titles. i get it. i would have given him more time. maybe he had a plan. we'll never know.

[Dipre]

he had a bad year. third place after three straight AL East titles. i get it. i would have given him more time. maybe he had a plan. we'll never know.

 

DD is not the guy to build a team up, he's the guy to take them over the top.

[moonslav59]

Hard to say. Ben was sort of the natural in-house replacement for Theo.

 

Plus they spent plenty in the pre-2015 offseason, so you might say that was when the patience ran out.

 

It's not exactly the same situation, but Ben hardly traded any prospects- like Bloom.

 

Ben was given a bigger budget earlier on than Bloom was, but Bloom has spent a lot, recently, especially if you count the Devers extension.

 

I think JH wanted to build a sustainable winning team under Ben, and figured he'd have to spend here and there to plug a few holes, but the losing made him switch gears and shift to the opposite plan by hiring DD, who was given the ability to trade over 20 prospects that were, at one time or another, top 20 prospects on SPs.

 

Compare the top prospects trade by DD vs Ben & Bloom. It's obvious big changes in direction and directives were made.

 

[moonslav59]

he had a bad year. third place after three straight AL East titles. i get it. i would have given him more time. maybe he had a plan. we'll never know.

 

Would DD have wanted to stick around, if JH told him he not only had to trade Betts and half-Price, but cut even more from the budget going into 2020, and then take 3 years to get back to similar spending?

 

I think he'd have quit, under the directives Bloom was given.

 

If your argument is that had DD been "given more time," meaning he could have spent more than Bloom was given, and been allowed to go ahead and trade Casas, Duran, Bello and others, then one might argue Bloom's record would have been better under those same terms.

[a700hitter]

Bloom decided to ride with what he has. I don’t understand that perspective, because unless the team is absolutely stacked, it is doomed to failure. If All of your competitors are improving themselves for the stretch run, staying Pat with a very flawed team can’t succeed. I said it weeks ago. He should have sold, clear the deck except for Devers, Casas,, Duran, Bello and the parts that can’t be given away.

[d-money]

Bloom decided to ride with what he has. I don’t understand that perspective, because unless the team is absolutely stacked, it is doomed to failure. If All of your competitors are improving themselves for the stretch run, staying Pat with a very flawed team can’t succeed. I said it weeks ago. He should have sold, clear the deck except for Devers, Casas,, Duran, Bello and the parts that can’t be given away.

 

Let’s see what they do in the offseason. Not expecting much either.

[Duran Is The Man]

Would DD have wanted to stick around, if JH told him he not only had to trade Betts and half-Price, but cut even more from the budget going into 2020, and then take 3 years to get back to similar spending?

 

I think he'd have quit, under the directives Bloom was given.

 

If your argument is that had DD been "given more time," meaning he could have spent more than Bloom was given, and been allowed to go ahead and trade Casas, Duran, Bello and others, then one might argue Bloom's record would have been better under those same terms.

 

unless someone on here knows DD, we'll never know. but yeah, you're right, as a greedy multi-billionaire, JH, has to cut costs.

[moonslav59]

unless someone on here knows DD, we'll never know. but yeah, you're right, as a greedy multi-billionaire, JH, has to cut costs.

 

He's cut and reset, before and followed it up with increased spending and occasional splurges.

 

I'm thinking this is the pattern.

 

The spending has already seen an uptick, and the Devers extension kicks in, next year.

 

I'm thinking JH will spend heavily, when he thinks the moment is right.

[Bellhorn04]

To me, doing nothing at this deadline and staying $10 million or so under the tax threshold for 2023 feels like the Sox front office giving the fans the middle finger one more time. "Crybaby fans", I guess I should say.

[Duran Is The Man]

To me, doing nothing at this deadline and staying $10 million or so under the tax threshold for 2023 feels like the Sox front office giving the fans the middle finger one more time. "Crybaby fans", I guess I should say.

 

to me, it gives the appearance that JH, billionaire, thinks saving $10 million is more important than winning. it's not a good look.

 

signed,

Crybaby fan

[moonslav59]

I feel the same way. At least spending that $10M or so would give fans the impression the plan involved being as competitive as possible within the confines of a reset.

 

NOPE!

 

Quick question: are fans more pissed after this deadline than the last one?

 

(I'm kinda thinking no.)

[Bellhorn04]

I feel the same way. At least spending that $10M or so would give fans the impression the plan involved being as competitive as possible within the confines of a reset.

 

NOPE!

 

Quick question: are fans more pissed after this deadline than the last one?

 

(I'm kinda thinking no.)

 

I don't know any way we could possibly determine whether fans are more collectively pissed off or not.

 

Last year's team was playing like crap before the deadline, and perhaps unworthy of being improved.

 

This year's team was playing pretty well but obviously needed some pitching help.

 

I'm kind of pissed off but I'm also puzzled. I don't understand exactly how this front office thinks. The team seems to be headed in the right direction, but they also keep doing things that make you grind your teeth.

[moonslav59]

Here is a look at some of the bigger trades made, recently and how BTV valued them vs what might the Sox have had to give up to match the value actually given up.

 

(There is no way of knowing the other team would have accepted the deals I am describing, and I would not have been for many of them, but here are a few ideas.

 

Do any look like deals you might have supported?

 

21.2 for Civale

for

26.2 Houck

24.0 Anthony

22.0 Yorke & Hickey or Brannon

20.1 Crawford

21.8 Rafaela & Romero

22.7 Rafaela, Paulino & Walter

 

 

20.9 for Verlander & $35M

for

20.1 Crawford

21.8 Rafaela & Romero

22.7 Rafaela, Paulino & Walter

 

20.1 for Scherzer & $35M

for

20.1 Crawford

21.8 Rafaela & Romero

22.5 Rafaela, Paulino & Drohan or Perales

4.6 for Flaherty

 

7.2 for Montgomery & Stratton

for

8.7 Romero

8.0 Walter & Perales or Drohan

7.0 Paulino & Hickey

 

[moonslav59]

I don't know any way we could possibly determine whether fans are more collectively pissed off or not.

 

Last year's team was playing like crap before the deadline, and perhaps unworthy of being improved.

 

This year's team was playing pretty well but obviously needed some pitching help.

 

I'm kind of pissed off but I'm also puzzled. I don't understand exactly how this front office thinks. The team seems to be headed in the right direction, but they also keep doing things that make you grind your teeth.

 

I have to think we could have traded for some overpaid pitcher and gave up nothing very important. Just making the effort might have appeased fans to some extent, and who know, maybe it even would have helped the team.

 

[Old Red]

I have to think we could have traded for some overpaid pitcher and gave up nothing very important. Just making the effort might have appeased fans to some extent, and who know, maybe it even would have helped the team.

 

 

Appease the fans? How about appeasing the players in the clubhouse, which is most important. Raffy said the team needed pitching meaning now where every game is important, and not waiting for the inured pitchers to come back. God forbid the 2023 team would get some help that had no implications for 2024, or beyond.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Appease the fans? How about appeasing the players in the clubhouse, which is most important. Raffy said the team needed pitching meaning now where every game is important, and not waiting for the inured pitchers to come back. God forbid the 2023 team would get some help that had no implications for 2024, or beyond.

 

The other day I posted the losing records of every Red Sox team in August after Bloom's petrified trade deadlines. Maybe that's just a coincidence and not a reflection of clubhouse/dugout reaction.

 

As for fans, what is there to appease? The bullpen blew three games this week. And it's still only Thursday. Why would we want to see any legitimate pitching additions to the Big League staff?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Here is a look at some of the bigger trades made, recently and how BTV valued them vs what might the Sox have had to give up to match the value actually given up.

 

(There is no way of knowing the other team would have accepted the deals I am describing, and I would not have been for many of them, but here are a few ideas.

 

Do any look like deals you might have supported?

 

21.2 for Civale

for

26.2 Houck

24.0 Anthony

22.0 Yorke & Hickey or Brannon

20.1 Crawford

21.8 Rafaela & Romero

22.7 Rafaela, Paulino & Walter

 

 

20.9 for Verlander & $35M

for

20.1 Crawford

21.8 Rafaela & Romero

22.7 Rafaela, Paulino & Walter

 

20.1 for Scherzer & $35M

for

20.1 Crawford

21.8 Rafaela & Romero

22.5 Rafaela, Paulino & Drohan or Perales

4.6 for Flaherty

 

7.2 for Montgomery & Stratton

for

8.7 Romero

8.0 Walter & Perales or Drohan

7.0 Paulino & Hickey

 

 

Brannon for Civale - yes

Romero for Montgomery and Stratton - yes

 

Homer for Montgomery Burns - no; don't trade power for over-the-hill, injury-prone rental cases

[Randy Red Sox]

seems like we sid that last offseason

Let’s see what they do in the offseason. Not expecting much either.

[Dipre]

It's like a nursery in here.