Devers next deal

[mvp 78]

Seriously, when has there been a year that there were a lot of FA SP's who weren't older or injury-prone?

 

Are you thinking of Gerrit Cole the $324 million man?

 

FA SP who have youth, effectiveness and durability cost a mint.

 

So we're out on them too...

 

Next year!

 

Starting Pitchers

 

Trevor Bauer (33)*

Matthew Boyd (33)

Carlos Carrasco (37)

Mike Clevinger (33)

Alex Cobb (36) – $10MM club option with a $2MM buyout*

Yu Darvish (37)

Jack Flaherty (28)

Chris Flexen (29)

Kyle Gibson (36)

Lucas Giolito (29)

Sonny Gray (34)

Andrew Heaney (33) – can opt out

Kyle Hendricks (34) – $16MM club option with a $1.5MM buyout

Jakob Junis (31)

Brad Keller (28)

Michael Lorenzen (32)

Lance Lynn (37) – $18MM club option with a $1MM buyout*

Kenta Maeda (35)

Tyler Mahle (29)

Sean Manaea (32) – can opt out

German Marquez (29) – $16MM club option with a $2.5MM buyout

Nick Martinez (33) – two-year, $32MM club option; if declined, two-year, $16MM player option

John Means (31)

Miles Mikolas (35)

Frankie Montas (31)

Jordan Montgomery (31)

Charlie Morton (40) – $20MM club option

Aaron Nola (31)

Jake Odorizzi (34)*

Shohei Ohtani (29)

James Paxton (34)

Martin Perez (33)*

Eduardo Rodriguez (31) – can opt out of remaining three years and $49MM*

Hyun-Jin Ryu (37)*

Luis Severino (30)

Max Scherzer (39) – can opt out of remaining one year, $43,333,334*

Blake Snell (31)

Marcus Stroman (33) – can opt out of remaining one year, $21MM*

Jose Ureña (32) – $4.5MM club option with a $500K buyout

Julio Urias (27)

Vince Velasquez (32)

Adam Wainwright (42)

Alex Wood (33)

 

*ineligible for QO

 

What a bumper crop!

[Bellhorn04]

They're either too old, too injury-prone or too expensive. Take your pick.

 

Bloom and the spreadsheets have generated the solution: don't sign any of them. Genius!

[notin]

They're either too old, too injury-prone or too expensive. Take your pick.

 

Bloom and the spreadsheets have generated the solution: don't sign any of them. Genius!

 

This year, that did describe the top of the pitching market.

 

That doesn’t mean he should ignore pitching, but hamstringing the financial flexibility just for having the privilege of placing a top tier arm on the IL next to Sale isn’t the best idea here, if it?

[Bellhorn04]

This year, that did describe the top of the pitching market.

 

That doesn’t mean he should ignore pitching, but hamstringing the financial flexibility just for having the privilege of placing a top tier arm on the IL next to Sale isn’t the best idea here, if it?

 

You're avoiding the question of what years haven't been like this.

 

When was the great year for free agent starters? Guys who had youth, excellence, durability, affordability? I must have missed that one.

[notin]

You're avoiding the question of what years haven't been like this.

 

When was the great year for free agent starters? Guys who had youth, excellence, durability, affordability? I must have missed that one.

 

Assuming no extensions, next year might not be as bad as this one.

 

But pitching in free agency is best limited to relievers and backend starters. The system basically asks teams to pay pitchers in their 30s for what they did in their 20s for someone else. And do so for 6 or 7 years or more…

[jacksonianmarch]

Sox need to deal Devers. It’ll help them long term since they’re gonna lose him for 24 anyway

[Bellhorn04]

Assuming no extensions, next year might not be as bad as this one.

 

But pitching in free agency is best limited to relievers and backend starters. The system basically asks teams to pay pitchers in their 30s for what they did in their 20s for someone else. And do so for 6 or 7 years or more…

 

OK, well that's the answer to the question - there are no good years for free agent starters. It's not that this year was a bad one.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

OK, well that's the answer to the question - there are no good years for free agent starters. It's not that this year was a bad one.

 

The best year for free agent starter was 1992, when Greg Maddux, 26, won the Cy Young for the Cubs.

 

Maddux signed with Atlanta and won the next three Cys in a row.

 

That worked out ok.

[moonslav59]

The best year for free agent starter was 1992, when Greg Maddux, 26, won the Cy Young for the Cubs.

 

Maddux signed with Atlanta and won the next three Cys in a row.

 

That worked out ok.

 

The first Scherzer signing- the year before Price- the year of Pablito & HRam- was pretty good, too.

[Bellhorn04]

The first Scherzer signing- the year before Price- the year of Pablito & HRam- was pretty good, too.

 

Scherzer was one. But there aren't many.

Edited December 16, 2022 by Bellhorn04

[moonslav59]

Scherzer was one. But there aren't many.

 

For sure, and...

 

Pedro>>> Price

 

Schilling >> Price

 

Beckett >>> Price

 

Sale >?> Price

 

Trades for aces have worked out well- for us.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

For sure, and...

 

Pedro>>> Price

 

Schilling >> Price

 

Beckett >>> Price

 

Sale >?> Price

 

Trades for aces have worked out well- for us.

 

Tiant in '71 and Wakefield in '95 were signed by Boston after being cut by other clubs...

 

I don't know why fans get so down on Bloom for dumpster diving; the Sox found two aces that way in the last 50 years!

[Hugh2]

Tiant in '71 and Wakefield in '95 were signed by Boston after being cut by other clubs...

 

I don't know why fans get so down on Bloom for dumpster diving; the Sox found two aces that way in the last 50 years!

 

Seems to me we are overdue

[moonslav59]

Tiant in '71 and Wakefield in '95 were signed by Boston after being cut by other clubs...

 

I don't know why fans get so down on Bloom for dumpster diving; the Sox found two aces that way in the last 50 years!

 

Is Richard O'Connell still around?

 

Now, that guy knew talent when he saw it.

[Bellhorn04]

Is Richard O'Connell still around?

 

Now, that guy knew talent when he saw it.

 

He passed in 2002.

[moonslav59]

He passed in 2002.

 

Think of all the talent he acquired.

 

Think of all his the talent Haywood then squandered.

[notin]

OK, well that's the answer to the question - there are no good years for free agent starters. It's not that this year was a bad one.

 

Not all bad years are equal

[Bellhorn04]

Not all bad years are equal

 

To me this year actually looked pretty decent for starting pitchers. Pricey as heck, but that goes without saying.

[moonslav59]

Top FA SP Signings:

 

2023:

185/5 deGrom

162/6 Rodon

87/2 Verlander

72/4 T Walker

68/4 Taillon

63/3 Bassitt

40/3 Eflin

39/3 T Anderson

26/2 Quintana

20/1 Kershaw

20/1 M Perez

25/2 Stripling, Manaea & Heaney

 

2022

130/3 Scherzer

115/5 R Ray

110/5 Gausman

77/5 ERod

71/3 Stroman

56/4 Jon Gray

50/2 Verlander

44/2 Rodon

44/4 Matz

36/3 Kikuchi

36/3 DeSclafani

21/1 Syndergaard

17/1 Kershaw

 

2021

102/3 Bauer

24/3 Odorizzi

23/3 T Walker

18/2 M Minor

15/1 Morton

11/1 Kluber & Smyly

10/1 Richards

 

2020

324/9 Cole

245/7 Strasburg

118/5 Wheeler

80/4 Ryu

55/3 Keuchel

28/3 Gibson

24/2 Roark

18/1 Hamels

 

So many were or are still are complete disasters. Others were pretty bad. Only a few look okay to good.

 

[notin]

To me this year actually looked pretty decent for starting pitchers. Pricey as heck, but that goes without saying.

 

Really?

 

I didn’t like that the top 3 options (Rodon, deGrom, Verlander) were injured a lot or over 40.

[Bellhorn04]

Really?

 

I didn’t like that the top 3 options (Rodon, deGrom, Verlander) were injured a lot or over 40.

 

But you have to compare them to previous years' lists. See moon's lists above for starters.

[notin]

But you have to compare them to previous years' lists. See moon's lists above for starters.

 

Go one year earlier and see how much further down younger versions of Rodon and Verlander were…

[Hugh2]

This years FA market is cementing a truth that has been bubbling for a while now. FA is for filling the holes, or overpaying for teams already established and “going” for it.

 

Locking guys up early is the way to go. The Sox were late to this party, and the consequences seen through Bogey and to some extent Devers (because even if they extend him now it will be at or close to market prices).

 

The Whitlock extension last year was a good sign they have taken note, but they will need to continue to do so. Next up may be Bello/Casas. Who can wait until next year for some extensions, but if they wait 3-4 years it will be too late.

[moonslav59]

This years FA market is cementing a truth that has been bubbling for a while now. FA is for filling the holes, or overpaying for teams already established and “going” for it.

 

Locking guys up early is the way to go. The Sox were late to this party, and the consequences seen through Bogey and to some extent Devers (because even if they extend him now it will be at or close to market prices).

 

The Whitlock extension last year was a good sign they have taken note, but they will need to continue to do so. Next up may be Bello/Casas. Who can wait until next year for some extensions, but if they wait 3-4 years it will be too late.

 

Bingo!

[Bellhorn04]

Go one year earlier and see how much further down younger versions of Rodon and Verlander were…

 

And the #1 and #2 guys on the list were old guy Scherzer and Robbie Ray.

[Bellhorn04]

This years FA market is cementing a truth that has been bubbling for a while now. FA is for filling the holes, or overpaying for teams already established and “going” for it.

 

Locking guys up early is the way to go. The Sox were late to this party, and the consequences seen through Bogey and to some extent Devers (because even if they extend him now it will be at or close to market prices).

 

The Whitlock extension last year was a good sign they have taken note, but they will need to continue to do so. Next up may be Bello/Casas. Who can wait until next year for some extensions, but if they wait 3-4 years it will be too late.

 

I would also argue that the Red Sox needed to sign a free agent starter, because as it stands our rotation is made up of kids (Whitlock, Houck, Bello), major injury risks (Sale, Paxton), and guys who may or may not be major league pitchers.

 

We still desperately need to sign someone like Eovaldi, Kluber, Wacha...I'm assuming a blockbuster trade ain't happening.

[moonslav59]

I would also argue that the Red Sox needed to sign a free agent starter, because as it stands our rotation is made up of kids (Whitlock, Houck, Bello), major injury risks (Sale, Paxton), and guys who may or may not be major league pitchers.

 

We still desperately need to sign someone like Eovaldi, Kluber, Wacha...I'm assuming a blockbuster trade ain't happening.

 

I think the chance we sign Nate s about the same or less than the chances we trade for a solid SP (maybe not a 1/2 type but a solid #3 or decent #2.)

 

Kluber is the one guy I see us having a decent chance at signing. They were interested, last winter.

[Old Red]

I still don’t see why Raffy would want to resign in Boston. He’s going to get his money no matter where he goes now. Bogey is gone, and it doesn’t look like the Red Sox are trying to get much better at least in the short term no matter what story Bloom told to Kike. I’m sure there will be better teams than Boston who will want his services., and will pay more than Boston too.

[Bellhorn04]

I still don’t see why Raffy would want to resign in Boston. He’s going to get his money no matter where he goes now.

 

But if he plays this year without an extension, he does run the risk of injury or having an off season, and seeing his value go down.

[Old Red]

But if he plays this year without an extension, he does run the risk of injury or having an off season, and seeing his value go down.

 

I think he willing to take that risk. The Red Sox had their chance, and I don’t think that chance is there any longer. He’s watched how they treated Bogey, and how he’s been treated himself since last offseason, and I think that matters.