Red Sox Sign Masataka Yoshida

[moonslav59]

Now you're just reading too much into this.

 

I looked at his monthly splits, the pattern keeps getting worse and seems to indicate a serious issue. The numbers are what they are.

 

Okay, but you are basing your opinion on him based on June 1>>

 

Not April 1>>> (okay, maybe a little)

 

or

 

August 28th>>>

 

I just don't see why June 1 to now is any better indicator of what we can expect going forward as any other significant sample size chosen.

 

I could be wrong, but you seem to seek the worst numbers you can find on him, and that is what you cite.

[Old Red]

Okay, but you are basing your opinion on him based on June 1>>

 

Not April 1>>> (okay, maybe a little)

 

or

 

August 28th>>>

 

I just don't see why June 1 to now is any better indicator of what we can expect going forward as any other significant sample size chosen.

 

I could be wrong, but you seem to seek the worst numbers you can find on him, and that is what you cite.

 

If Masa was coming out this year instead of last year do you think he would have been signed, and would the need be as great this year as last year? Lots of moving parts in the OF now, and I think his contract money could have been spent better elsewhere. All of this he’d be better as the DH just doesn’t seem he was worth the $100M spent.

[vegasbob]

The goal with Yoshida was to get a good OBP guy to be on base when Devers/Duvall ( or his repl) were hitting. Is that worth the price of a $100MM total cost? Not in 2023 because it achieved nothing in terms of real team success. Yoshi started off at leadoff and since has descended into the lineup mid range . Certainly have to give him his shot in 2024 and await improved results

[Bellhorn04]

Okay, but you are basing your opinion on him based on June 1>>

 

Not April 1>>> (okay, maybe a little)

 

or

 

August 28th>>>

 

I just don't see why June 1 to now is any better indicator of what we can expect going forward as any other significant sample size chosen.

 

I could be wrong, but you seem to seek the worst numbers you can find on him, and that is what you cite.

 

K/BB is a very big indicator for his profile. He's supposed to be a guy who doesn't strike out much and draws a lot of walks. That's his bread and butter. The pattern is an alarming one over half a season now. It's obvious that pitchers have adjusted to him, and he's chasing pitches out of the zone, as the article mvp linked shows.

 

We'll have to see if he can make the necessary adjustments.

 

Maybe there's some confirmation bias on my part because I've got in my head that it was a bad signing. But the numbers are real.

[Bellhorn04]

K/BB is a very big indicator for his profile. He's supposed to be a guy who doesn't strike out much and draws a lot of walks. That's his bread and butter. The pattern is an alarming one over half a season now. It's obvious that pitchers have adjusted to him, and he's chasing pitches out of the zone, as the article mvp linked shows.

 

We'll have to see if he can make the necessary adjustments.

 

Maybe there's some confirmation bias on my part because I've got in my head that it was a bad signing. But the numbers are real.

 

Reading that article again, it suggests that the reason he's been chasing so much may be simply because he's worn down, with the WBC playing a part in that.

[Old Red]

The goal with Yoshida was to get a good OBP guy to be on base when Devers/Duvall ( or his repl) were hitting. Is that worth the price of a $100MM total cost? Not in 2023 because it achieved nothing in terms of real team success. Yoshi started off at leadoff and since has descended into the lineup mid range . Certainly have to give him his shot in 2024 and await improved results

 

Yoshida did Not start off at leadoff, because Cora said he didn’t want to put that pressure on him, and batted him 4th I believe. Don’t have a choice to give him his shot next year unless you can find a trading partner.

[moonslav59]

The goal with Yoshida was to get a good OBP guy to be on base when Devers/Duvall ( or his repl) were hitting. Is that worth the price of a $100MM total cost? Not in 2023 because it achieved nothing in terms of real team success. Yoshi started off at leadoff and since has descended into the lineup mid range . Certainly have to give him his shot in 2024 and await improved results

 

He has never been slotted number 1.

 

40 times at #4

35 #2

16 #3

16 #5

12 #6

[moonslav59]

K/BB is a very big indicator for his profile. He's supposed to be a guy who doesn't strike out much and draws a lot of walks. That's his bread and butter. The pattern is an alarming one over half a season now. It's obvious that pitchers have adjusted to him, and he's chasing pitches out of the zone, as the article mvp linked shows.

 

We'll have to see if he can make the necessary adjustments.

 

Maybe there's some confirmation bias on my part because I've got in my head that it was a bad signing. But the numbers are real.

 

I'm extremely concerned about Yoshi, too.

 

Yes, the numbrs are real- some just look worse than others.

[mvp 78]

Hard contact? He chops the ball over half the time. He's in the bottom percentile of the league when it comes to barrels and hard hit rate

 

No, he is definitely not.

[mvp 78]

No, I just started by looking at the monthly splits. June is the month when his K/BB ratio started to get worse. It's been a steady monthly decline. Look at the splits yourself.

 

I guess if the only measure of playing well is k/bb...

[Old Red]

Hard contact? He chops the ball over half the time. He's in the bottom percentile of the league when it comes to barrels and hard hit rate

 

He likes playing ping pong.

[Bellhorn04]

I guess if the only measure of playing well is k/bb...

 

'Course not. But it's a pretty important indicator for this hitter's skill set...

[mvp 78]

K/BB is a very big indicator for his profile. He's supposed to be a guy who doesn't strike out much and draws a lot of walks. That's his bread and butter. The pattern is an alarming one over half a season now. It's obvious that pitchers have adjusted to him, and he's chasing pitches out of the zone, as the article mvp linked shows.

 

We'll have to see if he can make the necessary adjustments.

 

Maybe there's some confirmation bias on my part because I've got in my head that it was a bad signing. But the numbers are real.

 

95th percentile in K rate. Whiff 89th percentile. He has elite bat to ball skills.

[Old Red]

similar to seiya suzuki. About 20 hr a year. Walks a ton, doesn’t strike out.

 

33 bb/68k.

[mvp 78]

33 bb/68k.

 

My assessment is still fair. I said "about 20 HR" and "doesn't strike out."

 

That's more of a projection than you'll ever do.

[mvp 78]

68k's is amazing in this day and age in MLB. That is "doesn't strike out."

[Old Red]

My assessment is still fair. I said "about 20 HR" and "doesn't strike out."

 

That's more of a projection than you'll ever do.

 

I wouldn’t say walks a ton is a very good assessment. Maybe you were thinking about Schwarber.

[moonslav59]

No, he is definitely not.

 

I'm not sure where to find "barrel rates," but fangraphs has this....

 

263 batters with 300+ PAs

 

#211 in Line Drive % at 17.7

 

#190 in Hard Hit % at 30.5

Edited September 11, 2023 by moonslav59

[Bellhorn04]

68k's is amazing in this day and age in MLB. That is "doesn't strike out."

 

Yes, that's a good rate, but what the heck happened to the walks?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yes, that's a good rate, but what the heck happened to the walks?

 

It's gotta be pitchers around the league just aren't afraid to throw strikes to him anymore, like when he was starting in the MLB as the leading RBI man for the WBC team that won the whole world!

[Bellhorn04]

The truth is I don't watch very many games any more, just follow them on the computer, watch highlights, occasionally some live action. I assume pitchers are throwing Yoshida a lot of hard sinking stuff to induce him to hit it on the ground.

[Bellhorn04]

By rights we should be comparing Yoshida to J. D. Martinez. Their contracts are not that dissimilar. Both 5 years. Total cash JDM $110 mill, Yoshida $105 mill including posting fee. Allowing for inflation, let's knock Yoshida down to $95 mill or $19 mill AAV compared to $22 mill. So about 15% less in cost.

 

We should also be comparing Yoshida's first year to JD's first year with us.

 

What strikes me is that JD took a lot of heat from the Talksox faithful last year. There weren't many tears shed when he signed with the Dodgers for 1 year and $10 mill.

 

JD's OPS+ last year was 117. Yoshida's 2023 OPS+ is 114.

 

And yet a lot of people are still convinced it was a good signing by Bloom. I think it shows how differently certain players and performances are perceived.

Edited September 11, 2023 by Bellhorn04

[Nick]

By rights we should be comparing Yoshida to J. D. Martinez. Their contracts are not that dissimilar. Both 5 years. Total cash JDM $110 mill, Yoshida $105 mill including posting fee. Allowing for inflation, let's knock Yoshida down to $95 mill or $19 mill AAV compared to $22 mill. So about 15% less in cost.

 

We should also be comparing Yoshida's first year to JD's first year with us.

 

What strikes me is that JD took a lot of heat from the Talksox faithful last year. There weren't many tears shed when he signed with the Dodgers for 1 year and $10 mill.

 

JD's OPS+ last year was 117. Yoshida's 2023 OPS+ is 114.

 

And yet a lot of people are still convinced it was a good signing by Bloom. I think it shows how differently certain players and performances are perceived.

 

Only thing I would give edge to Yoshida is the fact he did play outfield. But, his defense was a suspect or adequate at best.

[moonslav59]

263 batters with 300+ PAs in 2023

 

GB%

6. Yoshida 55.6%

90. Verdugo 44.6% (2nd on Sox)

 

GB/FB

12. Yoshida 2.08

75. Dugo 1.31

91. Duran 1.25

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Only thing I would give edge to Yoshida is the fact he did play outfield. But, his defense was a suspect or adequate at best.

 

I bet a lot of fans forget that JD started in RF the last game of the 2018 World Series in LA (Mookie started in CF); there was still no DH in NL parks. Sure enough, someone hit a fly ball over his head and he was like, "Whooooops"... I wasn't amused, since the game was only for the championship of the world.

 

JD's production wasn't the issue most fans had with him in Boston; it was the strikeouts. On a two-strike count to JD, every Sox fan in the Nation knew what pitch was coming (no one even have to say that it was never a strike). Even when he was great and batting .330, JD whiffed more than anyone on the team, more than even Bradley, more than Papi ever did. Most Red Sox Ks in the JD Martinez Era: 2018-2022... JD Martinez.

 

On top of that, he never opted out. His contract allowed him to sign and play elsewhere, but he kept coming back (be honest: who here secretly hoped JD would opt out after Dombrowski said, "We can't keep them all" -- so we could keep Mookie... or so we could keep Schwarber... come on, who cried when Old Yeller died?)

[Bellhorn04]

I bet a lot of fans forget that JD started in RF the last game of the 2018 World Series in LA (Mookie started in CF); there was still no DH in NL parks. Sure enough, someone hit a fly ball over his head and he was like, "Whooooops"... I wasn't amused, since the game was only for the championship of the world.

 

JD's production wasn't the issue most fans had with him in Boston; it was the strikeouts. On a two-strike count to JD, every Sox fan in the Nation knew what pitch was coming (no one even have to say that it was never a strike). Even when he was great and batting .330, JD whiffed more than anyone on the team, more than even Bradley, more than Papi ever did. Most Red Sox Ks in the JD Martinez Era: 2018-2022... JD Martinez.

 

On top of that, he never opted out. His contract allowed him to sign and play elsewhere, but he kept coming back (be honest: who here secretly hoped JD would opt out after Dombrowski said, "We can't keep them all" -- so we could keep Mookie... or so we could keep Schwarber... come on, who cried when Old Yeller died?)

 

JD had an .889 OPS and 135 OPS+ with the Sox.

 

You're making my point about the way different players are perceived.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

JD had an .889 OPS and 135 OPS+ with the Sox.

 

You're making my point about the way different players are perceived.

 

Let's not just limit it to JD. He's one of four former Sox sluggers -- along with Betts, Bogaerts and Schwarber -- that Bloom has let leave on his watch.

 

That quartet has combined for 126 home runs so far this season.

 

Four players with the most HRs that Bloom has replaced them with -- Verdugo, Turner, Duvall, Yoshida -- have combined for 70 HRs.

[Bellhorn04]

I have to reiterate, I'm not trying to make Yoshida bad. I just think when all is said and done the signing indicates very questionable decision-making on Bloom's part. Why, when you are on a limited budget, do you allocate a huge chunk to a DH, and a risky one at that? And of course the fact he signed another DH at the same time exacerbated our defensive problems.

 

Just too many odd decisions by Chaim.

[moonslav59]

Let's not just limit it to JD. He's one of four former Sox sluggers -- along with Betts, Bogaerts and Schwarber -- that Bloom has let leave on his watch.

 

That quartet has combined for 126 home runs so far this season.

 

Four players with the most HRs that Bloom has replaced them with -- Verdugo, Turner, Duvall, Yoshida -- have combined for 70 HRs.

 

Bloom "let leave" is a loaded phrase.

 

Betts: not Bloom's doing or idea.

 

Schwarber: a rental who got overpaid by PHI.

 

JD: his time had come, despite this year's resurgence and time on the IL.

 

Bogey: his HR power seems to be sapped and has been for 3 years.

 

Not replacing them is a legit point, but Turner & Duvall have done well.

 

Let's see who we have in 2024: Urias, Rafaela & Abreu?

 

Upticks from Casas, Devers & Story?

 

Anyway, without adding 3 solid pitchers, it might not matter how many HRs we hit.

[notin]

Let's not just limit it to JD. He's one of four former Sox sluggers -- along with Betts, Bogaerts and Schwarber -- that Bloom has let leave on his watch.

 

That quartet has combined for 126 home runs so far this season.

 

Four players with the most HRs that Bloom has replaced them with -- Verdugo, Turner, Duvall, Yoshida -- have combined for 70 HRs.

 

Bloom let Mookie leave?