Red Sox Sign Masataka Yoshida

[moonslav59]

I have to reiterate, I'm not trying to make Yoshida bad. I just think when all is said and done the signing indicates very questionable decision-making on Bloom's part. Why, when you are on a limited budget, do you allocate a huge chunk to a DH, and a risky one at that? And of course the fact he signed another DH at the same time exacerbated our defensive problems.

 

Just too many odd decisions by Chaim.

 

I think all of us are very concerned that Yoshida may underperform his contract, especially since we usually expect the best to be years 1, 2 and 3.

 

The word was, our scouts we having wet dreams over this guy for years and years. I guess, at some point, you have to trust your scouts or replace them.

 

Ultimately, it seems it was Bloom who made the final call on Yoshi and Story. Both still have several years left to make good or salvage what they have started out producing, but it's really too early to make the call on Yoshi.

 

I'm not sure my theory is correct, but if the team's plan was to fill up the foundation of everyday players, and then add SP'ers right before "the window opens," then maybe we can see why the moves are not as "odd" as it seems.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

I have to reiterate, I'm not trying to make Yoshida bad. I just think when all is said and done the signing indicates very questionable decision-making on Bloom's part. Why, when you are on a limited budget, do you allocate a huge chunk to a DH, and a risky one at that? And of course the fact he signed another DH at the same time exacerbated our defensive problems.

 

Just too many odd decisions by Chaim.

 

The lead role in one of those after-school special, made-for-TV movies about a gangly teen's awkward attempts at gaining popularity with both staff and student body(ies)...

 

... carrying and showing off binders of his collections to lunch ladies in the cafe: "and here's my binder of career utility players... well, Marwin didn't work out, but Kike almost won the pennant; let's put him at short; and this book has pages of relief pitchers I got off waiver wires, DFAed by other clubs -- there's a good one in every center pocket: Whitlock, Schreiber, Bernardino... just ignore all the Bear Claws surrounding them on each page."

 

Will he ever get a seat at the cool kids' table?

[Bellhorn04]

I think all of us are very concerned that Yoshida may underperform his contract, especially since we usually expect the best to be years 1, 2 and 3.

 

The word was, our scouts we having wet dreams over this guy for years and years. I guess, at some point, you have to trust your scouts or replace them.

 

Ultimately, it seems it was Bloom who made the final call on Yoshi and Story. Both still have several years left to make good or salvage what they have started out producing, but it's really too early to make the call on Yoshi.

 

I'm not sure my theory is correct, but if the team's plan was to fill up the foundation of everyday players, and then add SP'ers right before "the window opens," then maybe we can see why the moves are not as "odd" as it seems.

 

Planning everything around a couple of splashy starting pitcher acquisitions seems very risky in itself. Don't see how the Sox have much choice though.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Bloom let Mookie leave?

 

The forum just knew it could count on a few posters to literally JUMP at the slightest turn of a phrase in any post, just to defend the worst man in charge of the Boston Red Sox in this century.

[notin]

The forum just knew it could count on a few posters to literally JUMP at the slightest turn of a phrase in any post, just to defend the worst man in charge of the Boston Red Sox in this century.

 

And yet you chose those words anyway…

[notin]

I think all of us are very concerned that Yoshida may underperform his contract, especially since we usually expect the best to be years 1, 2 and 3.

 

The word was, our scouts we having wet dreams over this guy for years and years. I guess, at some point, you have to trust your scouts or replace them.

 

Ultimately, it seems it was Bloom who made the final call on Yoshi and Story. Both still have several years left to make good or salvage what they have started out producing, but it's really too early to make the call on Yoshi.

 

I'm not sure my theory is correct, but if the team's plan was to fill up the foundation of everyday players, and then add SP'ers right before "the window opens," then maybe we can see why the moves are not as "odd" as it seems.

 

I have my doubts on that theory simply due to the lack of drafting pitchers. Some pitchers might be acceptable via trade, but having an internal pipeline was supposed to be the entire point. If the Sox are going to add pitchers “right before the window opens”, where are these pitchers coming from? Kidnappings?

[notin]

Planning everything around a couple of splashy starting pitcher acquisitions seems very risky in itself. Don't see how the Sox have much choice though.

 

Do teams even believe in this “window” concept?

 

MLB itself has enough parity that the “window” is really always somewhat open. Do teams really look at their minor leagues - where the attrition can be massive - and still think “wait until THESE GUYS get here!!”?

Edited September 12, 2023 by notin

[mvp 78]

By rights we should be comparing Yoshida to J. D. Martinez. Their contracts are not that dissimilar. Both 5 years. Total cash JDM $110 mill, Yoshida $105 mill including posting fee. Allowing for inflation, let's knock Yoshida down to $95 mill or $19 mill AAV compared to $22 mill. So about 15% less in cost.

 

We should also be comparing Yoshida's first year to JD's first year with us.

 

What strikes me is that JD took a lot of heat from the Talksox faithful last year. There weren't many tears shed when he signed with the Dodgers for 1 year and $10 mill.

 

JD's OPS+ last year was 117. Yoshida's 2023 OPS+ is 114.

 

And yet a lot of people are still convinced it was a good signing by Bloom. I think it shows how differently certain players and performances are perceived.

 

The issue with JD was that he fell off after the first month or two the past few years.

 

6/1 - 9/30/22: 703 OPS

 

The worry was that he was older and was just wearing down. I think people are hopeful that Masa is just adjusting to the game and can be better in the future.

[mvp 78]

The forum just knew it could count on a few posters to literally JUMP at the slightest turn of a phrase in any post, just to defend the worst man in charge of the Boston Red Sox in this century.

 

Dan Duquette?

[mvp 78]

I have to reiterate, I'm not trying to make Yoshida bad. I just think when all is said and done the signing indicates very questionable decision-making on Bloom's part. Why, when you are on a limited budget, do you allocate a huge chunk to a DH, and a risky one at that? And of course the fact he signed another DH at the same time exacerbated our defensive problems.

 

Just too many odd decisions by Chaim.

 

The reports were that the scouting department were high on Masa. This wasn't just Bloom in a vacuum picking up a guy on his own. Aren't all FA signings risky? Most of them are about 50/50.

[Old Red]

Dan Duquette?

 

Seems I remember Duquette. Wasn’t he the guy who with Theo put the 2004 team together?

[Bellhorn04]

Do teams even believe in this “window” concept?

 

MLB itself has enough parity that the “window” is really always somewhat open. Do teams really look at their minor leagues - where the attrition can be massive - and still think “wait until THESE GUYS get here!!”?

 

I agree.

[Bellhorn04]

The reports were that the scouting department were high on Masa. This wasn't just Bloom in a vacuum picking up a guy on his own. Aren't all FA signings risky? Most of them are about 50/50.

 

Right, but why go so big on a DH when you're on a budget, and Bloom can sign guys like Turner and Duvall to his heart's content.

 

I think it took a while to really sink in on us that Masa is strictly a DH.

[notin]

Seems I remember Duquette. Wasn’t he the guy who with Theo put the 2004 team together?

 

I wasn’t a Duquette fan, but in hindsight he was ahead of his time. When he signed Offerman to replace Vaughn, and sold it with “Jose Offerman is one of the best offensive players in the game”, he took a lot of abuse, including from me. But Offerman. But Offerman was coming off a .403 OBP and posted a .391 his first season in Boston and was absolutely an underrated offensive talent. This was before anyone was really valuing OBP.

 

Of course Duquette seemed to make some stupid moves just to spite manager Jimy Williams. Reportedly Williams was excited about having a potential middle infield of Adam Everett and David Eckstein. Duquette then traded Everett (for a much, much more volatile Everett) and released Eckstein. Adam Everett had a long career as the best defensive shortstop of his era and Eckstein had a good career himself and even took home a World Series MVP…

[moonslav59]

Planning everything around a couple of splashy starting pitcher acquisitions seems very risky in itself. Don't see how the Sox have much choice though.

 

It seems to be what the Sox history has been.

 

Build up, add an ace, win a ring, reset, rinse and repeat.

[moonslav59]

I have my doubts on that theory simply due to the lack of drafting pitchers. Some pitchers might be acceptable via trade, but having an internal pipeline was supposed to be the entire point. If the Sox are going to add pitchers “right before the window opens”, where are these pitchers coming from? Kidnappings?

 

Trades.

 

Lackey and Price were really the only two major FA attempts

 

Trades:

Pedro (pre-JH)

Schilling

Beckett

Sale

Porcello (not really an ace)

 

It has worked, for us,

 

Compare that list to our homegrown aces since the late 90's:

 

Lester

[Bellhorn04]

It seems to be what the Sox history has been.

 

Build up, add an ace, win a ring, reset, rinse and repeat.

 

Think John Henry is up for another David Price?

[moonslav59]

Do teams even believe in this “window” concept?

 

 

Yes, for sure.

[moonslav59]

Think John Henry is up for another David Price?

 

Maybe.

 

I think he'd prefer a $150M/6 guy or two $110M/5 guys, though.

[Bellhorn04]

Yes, for sure.

 

The new model was supposed to be "sustainability".

[moonslav59]

The new model was supposed to be "sustainability".

 

Sustain a 3-4 year window?

 

Maybe, it means between windows, we don't finish in last place 3 out of 4 years? Because, we still keep a steady flow of maturing prospects?

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

The new model was supposed to be "sustainability".

 

All along it's just been stainability. Bloom was so nervous in his first presser, he stuttered on the word.

[mvp 78]

Seems I remember Duquette. Wasn’t he the guy who with Theo put the 2004 team together?

 

No. Duquette gave the Sox some real great seasons like 2000 and 2001 even when it had HOF talent on it. They would have never gotten to a WS under Duquette.

[mvp 78]

Right, but why go so big on a DH when you're on a budget, and Bloom can sign guys like Turner and Duvall to his heart's content.

 

I think it took a while to really sink in on us that Masa is strictly a DH.

 

Why did they sign all 3? IDK! Not a great idea!

[mvp 78]

I wasn’t a Duquette fan, but in hindsight he was ahead of his time. When he signed Offerman to replace Vaughn, and sold it with “Jose Offerman is one of the best offensive players in the game”, he took a lot of abuse, including from me. But Offerman. But Offerman was coming off a .403 OBP and posted a .391 his first season in Boston and was absolutely an underrated offensive talent. This was before anyone was really valuing OBP.

 

Of course Duquette seemed to make some stupid moves just to spite manager Jimy Williams. Reportedly Williams was excited about having a potential middle infield of Adam Everett and David Eckstein. Duquette then traded Everett (for a much, much more volatile Everett) and released Eckstein. Adam Everett had a long career as the best defensive shortstop of his era and Eckstein had a good career himself and even took home a World Series MVP…

 

What did Offerman do in the two years after '99?

[Old Red]

No. Duquette gave the Sox some real great seasons like 2000 and 2001 even when it had HOF talent on it. They would have never gotten to a WS under Duquette.

 

Agree, and that’s why I said with Theo they put the 2004 team together. I don’t think Dan would have broken bread with Schill at Thanksgiving.

[moonslav59]

Hard to know for sure if Dan D could have built a winner under JH.

 

Theo was awesome.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No. Duquette gave the Sox some real great seasons like 2000 and 2001 even when it had HOF talent on it. They would have never gotten to a WS under Duquette.

 

Maybe not, but he did assemble a partial core of '04: signed Wakefield, Manny, Damon; traded for Pedro, Varitek and Lowe. All good moves for players who were Red Sox stars.

 

Bloom hasn't even picked up anyone off waivers as good as Troy O'Leary, who had 7.8 WAR for Boston.

[moonslav59]

Maybe not, but he did assemble a partial core of '04: signed Wakefield, Manny, Damon; traded for Pedro, Varitek and Lowe. All good moves for players who were Red Sox stars.

 

Bloom hasn't even picked up anyone off waivers as good as Troy O'Leary, who had 7.8 WAR for Boston.

 

Troy was with the Sox for 7 yrs.

 

Schreiber 3.6 bWAR is 2.1 yrs.

 

Bernardino 1.2 in 1/2 yr.

 

Ref 1.3 in 2 yrs.

 

Arroyo 2.2 in 3.5 yrs

 

(I might be missing someone.)

 

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Troy was with the Sox for 7 yrs.

 

 

 

That's awesome: a serviceable left fielder who in his four Boston prime years ('96-99) averaged 20 HR, 87 RBI and .803 OPS -- and they valued him enough to keep him around.