Red Sox Sign Masataka Yoshida

[mvp 78]

Once it was established that Yoshida is a pricey DH, then his comps become David Ortiz and J. D. Martinez. That's part of what I've been saying.

 

The comps can't be Ortiz since salaries in baseball have substantially increases since 2016. It was 2006, when Ortiz was Masa's age.

 

JD is a fair comp as any other current player.

[moonslav59]

The comps can't be Ortiz since salaries in baseball have substantially increases since 2016. It was 2006, when Ortiz was Masa's age.

 

JD is a fair comp as any other current player.

 

Agreed.

[Old Red]

I don't disagree, but your focus seems more on Yoshida's shortcomings. It just seems extreme, to me.

 

I don’t really think he’s 5’8”. I think it’s the high pants he tugs up like waders.

[sk7326]

moon, his fWAR now stands at 0.4. Maybe your argument should be with FanGraphs, not me.

 

Kyle Schwarber is back to having a higher OBP than Yoshida despite batting .197. I love baseball.

[Dipre]

Lots of walks. No one wants to throw him a pitch he can pull.

[Dipre]

Kyle Schwarber is back to having a higher OBP than Yoshida despite batting .197. I love baseball.

 

If it's in response to this post, don't you think I'd be talking about Schwarber?

[Bellhorn04]

To think that Senga signed for less money when we so badly needed starting pitching.

 

To think that Bloom instead focused so much effort and money on a DH.

 

It just confirms that his judgment was terrible.

[Old Red]

To think that Senga signed for less money when we so badly needed starting pitching.

 

To think that Bloom instead focused so much effort and money on a DH.

 

It just confirms that his judgment was terrible.

And the word was at the time of the signing when Boris shut the bidding down so quick he overpaid dong it.

[mvp 78]

To think that Senga signed for less money when we so badly needed starting pitching.

 

To think that Bloom instead focused so much effort and money on a DH.

 

It just confirms that his judgment was terrible.

 

Focusing on Duvall/Turner/Masa when they needed starting pitching was an obviously bad choice. I think we all agreed on that at the time. It made no sense to wait out the market the way he did.

[mvp 78]

And the word was at the time of the signing when Boris shut the bidding down so quick he overpaid dong it.

 

If they do that for a player like Yamamoto, will it matter? As long as they're bringing in the right players, I don't see the problem in it.

[Old Red]

If they do that for a player like Yamamoto, will it matter? As long as they're bringing in the right players, I don't see the problem in it.

 

Yamamoto is for a lot bigger need, and worth the money, and risk. Like I said yesterday going into last offseason the Red Sox needed another OF, and a bat. A year later the Red Sox have OF depth, and Yoshida is just clogging up things when the money would be better spent on pitching.

[moonslav59]

Focusing on Duvall/Turner/Masa when they needed starting pitching was an obviously bad choice. I think we all agreed on that at the time. It made no sense to wait out the market the way he did.

 

I think this statement is something a large percentage of posters would all agree on.

[moonslav59]

If they do that for a player like Yamamoto, will it matter? As long as they're bringing in the right players, I don't see the problem in it.

 

Me neither. We are at a moment very similar to when we did not get Scherzer, then realized our mistake and went for Price.

 

It was a time it needed to be done. That time is now. (Actually, it was years ago, too.)

 

Roll the dice. Roll them 2-3 times.

[mvp 78]

Yamamoto is for a lot bigger need, and worth the money, and risk. Like I said yesterday going into last offseason the Red Sox needed another OF, and a bat. A year later the Red Sox have OF depth, and Yoshida is just clogging up things when the money would be better spent on pitching.

 

There's a difference between the "it's a bad contract" and the commentary about Boras stopping the bidding and whatever. I give them credit for focusing on the guy they really liked and just giving him the money. They were hard pressed to do that for others. They just may have chose the wrong person to do that for. He needs another season before he's written off though. Also, Rafaela, Duran and Abreu are still largely unknowns and can still fall flat in 2024. The depth may be a mirage.

[notin]

Me neither. We are at a moment very similar to when we did not get Scherzer, then realized our mistake and went for Price.

 

It was a time it needed to be done. That time is now. (Actually, it was years ago, too.)

 

Roll the dice. Roll them 2-3 times.

 

The Scherzer contracts with Washington was labeled a massive overpay at the time. I doubt anyone in the Boston organization viewed not typing the Washington or as a mistake. And if they did and that is why they went crazy for Price, they learned the wrong lesson…

Edited September 29, 2023 by notin

[Hugh2]

I think this statement is something a large percentage of posters would all agree on.

 

I don't disagree but I just don't like how it sounds, and I could just be reading it wrong.

 

It didn't have to be a zero-sum game. It's not like, "we addressed a hole in the outfield so we did nothing on pitching" They didn't NOT get pitching because they spent too much time, effort and money on Yoshida. They didn't get pitching because they weren't willing to spend 1.10 on the dollar for guys they didn't think were worth going above their value line E.G. Eovaldi, Efflin.

[Old Red]

There's a difference between the "it's a bad contract" and the commentary about Boras stopping the bidding and whatever. I give them credit for focusing on the guy they really liked and just giving him the money. They were hard pressed to do that for others. They just may have chose the wrong person to do that for. He needs another season before he's written off though. Also, Rafaela, Duran and Abreu are still largely unknowns and can still fall flat in 2024. The depth may be a mirage.

 

I know there is good quantity, but not necessarily good quality in the OF, and I have said it would be risky to count on Raf Man, Abreu, and Duran as full time starters next year. If Dugy leaves they need another RHB, and even if he stays another RHH OF is needed. Of course not shoring up he rotation is even riskier.

[Hugh2]

The Scherzer contracts with Washington was labeled a massive overpay at the time. I doubt anyone in the Boston organization viewed not typing the Washington or as a mistake. And if they did and that is why they went crazy for Price, they lacked the wrong lesson…

 

I stood on a hill alone back in the day wanting the Sox to go all in for Scherzer. I had a crazy conspiracy theory that they weren't willing to budge on Lester because if he wouldn't take the deal, they were fine going with the MAX upgrade.

 

It does look like they changed their minds but went with the wrong guy in Price.

 

People love to talk about long term contracts not panning out, now an element of luck is involved, but you need the right guys around you making smart decisions about WHO to invest in. One has to belive that the group of Ohtani, Snell, Nola, Yama + have some guys in it that will continue to be good for a very long time. Risk vs. reward.

[Bellhorn04]

I don't disagree but I just don't like how it sounds, and I could just be reading it wrong.

 

It didn't have to be a zero-sum game. It's not like, "we addressed a hole in the outfield so we did nothing on pitching" They didn't NOT get pitching because they spent too much time, effort and money on Yoshida. They didn't get pitching because they weren't willing to spend 1.10 on the dollar for guys they didn't think were worth going above their value line E.G. Eovaldi, Efflin.

 

I think when you're talking about the payroll budget, it IS a zero sum game. If you spend 18 million AAV on Yoshida, that's 18 million less you have for pitching and other needs.

[mvp 78]

I think when you're talking about the payroll budget, it IS a zero sum game. If you spend 18 million AAV on Yoshida, that's 18 million less you have for pitching and other needs.

 

At some point, they need to be the BOSTON RED SOX and stop penny pinching a little. I get that they can't go over the CBT every year, but Sale is coming off the books next season. Having one bad contract isn't going to kill a 230M budget.

[mvp 78]

I don't disagree but I just don't like how it sounds, and I could just be reading it wrong.

 

It didn't have to be a zero-sum game. It's not like, "we addressed a hole in the outfield so we did nothing on pitching" They didn't NOT get pitching because they spent too much time, effort and money on Yoshida. They didn't get pitching because they weren't willing to spend 1.10 on the dollar for guys they didn't think were worth going above their value line E.G. Eovaldi, Efflin.

 

Yup.

[Bellhorn04]

At some point, they need to be the BOSTON RED SOX and stop penny pinching a little. I get that they can't go over the CBT every year, but Sale is coming off the books next season. Having one bad contract isn't going to kill a 230M budget.

 

And personally I've never been one to moan and groan about the Price contract. It seemed like a solid choice at the time, he helped win a WS. But after that his contract started to be viewed as an insurmountable disaster.

 

If the Price contract made these owners gun-shy, we can forget Yamamoto, Snell or Nola.

[mvp 78]

And personally I've never been one to moan and groan about the Price contract. It seemed like a solid choice at the time, he helped win a WS. But after that his contract started to be viewed as an insurmountable disaster.

 

If the Price contract made these owners gun-shy, we can forget Yamamoto, Snell or Nola.

 

And I don't think it was an insurmountable disaster. I think there are ways that good organizations can work around the last few years of a dead contract. The Dodgers seem to be able to do with with Trevor Bauer and still have Mookie Betts, Freddie Freeman, Clayton Kershaw, Chris Taylor, etc.

[Old Red]

And I don't think it was an insurmountable disaster. I think there are ways that good organizations can work around the last few years of a dead contract. The Dodgers seem to be able to do with with Trevor Bauer and still have Mookie Betts, Freddie Freeman, Clayton Kershaw, Chris Taylor, etc.

 

That’s true about the Dodgers, but the Red Sox have been working around Sale’s dead contract pretty much since it was signed. Glad to see Sale is penciled in as the opening day starter next year unlike this year when Cora gave him the day off to relax, and celebrate his birthday. Of course with Sale being penciled in, and being available are two different things.

[moonslav59]

I don't disagree but I just don't like how it sounds, and I could just be reading it wrong.

 

It didn't have to be a zero-sum game. It's not like, "we addressed a hole in the outfield so we did nothing on pitching" They didn't NOT get pitching because they spent too much time, effort and money on Yoshida. They didn't get pitching because they weren't willing to spend 1.10 on the dollar for guys they didn't think were worth going above their value line E.G. Eovaldi, Efflin.

 

The statement didn't say don't sign all 3 of those everyday players, but clearly we focused more on that than SP'ing.

 

As it turned out, we did need hitting, too.

[sk7326]

I don't disagree but I just don't like how it sounds, and I could just be reading it wrong.

 

It didn't have to be a zero-sum game. It's not like, "we addressed a hole in the outfield so we did nothing on pitching" They didn't NOT get pitching because they spent too much time, effort and money on Yoshida. They didn't get pitching because they weren't willing to spend 1.10 on the dollar for guys they didn't think were worth going above their value line E.G. Eovaldi, Efflin.

 

Yes. And as it turns out - you need pitchers to field a baseball team! Whoops.

[mvp 78]

That’s true about the Dodgers, but the Red Sox have been working around Sale’s dead contract pretty much since it was signed. Glad to see Sale is penciled in as the opening day starter next year unlike this year when Cora gave him the day off to relax, and celebrate his birthday. Of course with Sale being penciled in, and being available are two different things.

 

That's not what Cora said though. He said the goal for Chris Sale's offseason would be to work towards trying to pitch the first game in Seattle, not that Cora was handing it to him.

[Hugh2]

I think when you're talking about the payroll budget, it IS a zero sum game. If you spend 18 million AAV on Yoshida, that's 18 million less you have for pitching and other needs.

 

Yes BUT, if the Sox threw more money in for Eovaldi or Efflin they'd still be sitting below the luxury tax this year. It's not like they were up against the cap. Yoshida didn't prevent them from throwing a few extra dollars at Efflin, or another year at Nate.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Yes BUT, if the Sox threw more money in for Eovaldi or Efflin they'd still be sitting below the luxury tax this year. It's not like they were up against the cap. Yoshida didn't prevent them from throwing a few extra dollars at Efflin, or another year at Nate.

 

Maybe it was Bloom's or company policy... not to pay one dollar more for starting pitchers than the failed anal dept's market evals.

 

Instead, we were treated to Richards and Kluber -- and if any Wacha actually earned a raise, it was easy to point him to the Mass Pike (it's right behind the Monstah).

[notin]

And personally I've never been one to moan and groan about the Price contract. It seemed like a solid choice at the time, he helped win a WS. But after that his contract started to be viewed as an insurmountable disaster.

 

If the Price contract made these owners gun-shy, we can forget Yamamoto, Snell or Nola.

 

The problem isn’t necessarily avoiding guys like Nola and Snell. It does seem like most of those major contracts don’t push teams over the top anyway. The problem was the inactivity. The Sox would have been better with simply adding Kyle Gibson, but they d do isn’t even go that far.

 

Kluber was an understandable chance. But he flopped and was essentially discarded. And then? Plan B seemed to be to simply let the calendar run out. Even with Mluber not contributing, Wacha and Eovaldi succeeding elsewhere, Eflin spurning the Sox for a division rival - even with all that, they were still in contention on August 1.

 

And for the second year in a row, they let contending die that day…