A Realistic View at 2023: Part I

[moonslav59]

1B Casas

2B Story

SS Mayer

CF Rafaela

SP Bello

SP Matta

RP Whitlock

RP Houck

 

I would focus on Devers this winter. If no agreement on extension, then trade him.

 

C McGuire/Wong

1B Casas

2B Story

SS Mayer

3B Devers

LF Yorke

CF Rafaela

RF Dugo

DH Kavadas

SP Bello

SP Matta

SP Walter

SP TWard

RP Whitlock

RP Houck

RP Kelly/German

[Old Red]

Tell me how DD would have brought us to the WS with the farm and budget Bloom had.

 

We are not bashing DD. No GM could have done it.

 

Pure speculation on your part, but what isn’t speculation is that Bloom has not brought the Red Sox to the WS.

[Tedballgame]

Tell me how DD would have brought us to the WS with the farm and budget Bloom had.

 

We are not bashing DD. No GM could have done it.

 

DD would have put a much better team on the field than Bloom did. It may not have made the WS but it would have been much better than the 2022 Sox team was.

[notin]

DD would have put a much better team on the field than Bloom did. It may not have made the WS but it would have been much better than the 2022 Sox team was.

 

That’s just conjecture.

 

The 2019 team DD constructed was only 6 games better than the 2022 Red Sox and didn’t play 76 games against 4 division opponents that were all over .500. Heck the 2019 team got to play 38 games against the Blue Jays (67-95) and the Orioles (54-108) and still only won 6 more times.

 

Obviously that’s not the norm for a DD team, but certainly he showed he’s fallible…

[Nick]

Say what you want but Dave Dombrowski got another team to the World Series. Meanwhile, the Sox are languishing in the bottom of the AL East.

 

He did sign Schwarber and I still think we made a mistake on him. Just one year of overlap. We went over the luxury tax limit as is.

[moonslav59]

DD would have put a much better team on the field than Bloom did. It may not have made the WS but it would have been much better than the 2022 Sox team was.

 

DD has very little experience finding under the radar players. He needs to spend to build a good team.

 

Look at all the payroll cut for the 2020 team after the 2019 team already showed a very steep decline.

 

What could any GM do to create a winning team?

 

I'm not bashing DD. I'm saying you guys expect miracles with no farm infusion or winter spending budgets of any significance.

 

This year's opening day payroll is still $30M below 2019's, and Sale, Nate and JD were still part of the 2022 team without giving anything like the 2018 team.

[Old Red]

DD has very little experience finding under the radar players. He needs to spend to build a good team.

 

Look at all the payroll cut for the 2020 team after the 2019 team already showed a very steep decline.

 

What could any GM do to create a winning team?

 

I'm not bashing DD. I'm saying you guys expect miracles with no farm infusion or winter spending budgets of any significance.

 

This year's opening day payroll is still $30M below 2019's, and Sale, Nate and JD were still part of the 2022 team without giving anything like the 2018 team.

It is true that DD, and Bloom do things a different way, and it is also true that DD has gotten better results.

[Old Red]

That’s just conjecture.

 

The 2019 team DD constructed was only 6 games better than the 2022 Red Sox and didn’t play 76 games against 4 division opponents that were all over .500. Heck the 2019 team got to play 38 games against the Blue Jays (67-95) and the Orioles (54-108) and still only won 6 more times.

 

Obviously that’s not the norm for a DD team, but certainly he showed he’s fallible…

Really that’s where you want to go. Comparing the 2019 team with the 2022 team. If the 2019 team played the same teams with the same talent as the 2022 team I’m pretty sure they would have finished with a lot better record, and wouldn’t have been a losing team with a lost place in the Div finish. Not even close to a good comparison.

[moonslav59]

It is true that DD, and Bloom do things a different way, and it is also true that DD has gotten better results.

 

No doubt. There is no argument, if you only look at wins and losses.

 

If you look at the farm he inherited and left and the b udget he had vs Bloom, it's night and day times two.

 

Do you really think DD wins us a ring without trading prospects for Sale, Kimbrel, and others? Bloom could get us more wins by doing that, too, but that's not the plan.

 

That's just half of it.

 

Now, forget about inflation: these are the opening day budgets.

 

DD

184M

197M

234M

236M

 

Bloom

73M (pro-rated for covid)

180M

206M

 

Throw away 2020 and DD's 2019 budget was cut from $236M to $180M. That's $56M. Tell me how DD builds a winner by cutting payroll and notv trading top prospects.

[notin]

Really that’s where you want to go. Comparing the 2019 team with the 2022 team. If the 2019 team played the same teams with the same talent as the 2022 team I’m pretty sure they would have finished with a lot better record, and wouldn’t have been a losing team with a lost place in the Div finish. Not even close to a good comparison.

 

What are you basing that on? I mean, besides absolutely nothing…

[moonslav59]

What are you basing that on? I mean, besides absolutely nothing…

 

I'm pasting myself on the b ack trying to figure out where the lost place in the division is hiding.

[notin]

I'm pasting myself on the b ack trying to figure out where the lost place in the division is hiding.

 

I’m not picking on anyone’s typos. That’s a door I don’t want to open…

[notin]

I'm pasting myself on the b ack trying to figure out where the lost place in the division is hiding.

 

(I’m also betting Old Red forgot how badly the 2019 underachieved and that they had a losing record in the division despite playing two truly horrible teams 38 times.)

[moonslav59]

I’m not picking on anyone’s typos. That’s a door I don’t want to open…

 

LOL. I was just razzin' cause he razzed me on pasting instead of patting myself on the back.

[moonslav59]

(I’m also betting Old Red forgot how badly the 2019 underachieved and that they had a losing record in the division despite playing two truly horrible teams 38 times.)

 

Because the 2019 team was similar on paper to the 2018 team.

 

The problem was injuries, like 2022, and the on paper 2018 team declined by 2019 and even more so by 2022.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Jon Heyman in the NY Post offers his take to revamp the Yankees: sign an ace (he says Verlander or Rodon), sign a closer (Diaz and the trumpeteer), sign a shortstop (Correa), and of course, sign Judge.

 

These are the exact same targets that some posters have to bring the Red Sox back to relevancy.

[mvp 78]

He did sign Schwarber and I still think we made a mistake on him. Just one year of overlap. We went over the luxury tax limit as is.

 

That was the real stinker this season. Like why go over? It was a sinking ship!

[Bellhorn04]

That was the real stinker this season. Like why go over? It was a sinking ship!

 

Oh great, now we have to have the same argument on 2 different threads.

[mvp 78]

1B Casas

2B Story

SS Mayer

CF Rafaela

SP Bello

SP Matta

RP Whitlock

RP Houck

 

I would focus on Devers this winter. If no agreement on extension, then trade him.

 

I saw a media source in the DR state that the Sox have reached out to him about a 7 year extension and want it done soon.

[mvp 78]

Jon Heyman in the NY Post offers his take to revamp the Yankees: sign an ace (he says Verlander or Rodon), sign a closer (Diaz and the trumpeteer), sign a shortstop (Correa), and of course, sign Judge.

 

These are the exact same targets that some posters have to bring the Red Sox back to relevancy.

 

It's the exact same scenario every team wants to do. That's why it's really impossible to do it all through free agency, because you are competing with other clubs that will offer more money to one of two of the guys that you want.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

It's the exact same scenario every team wants to do. That's why it's really impossible to do it all through free agency, because you are competing with other clubs that will offer more money to one of two of the guys that you want.

 

Agree, except only four or five clubs can pull it off -- if they so choose.

 

Ranking the four possible acquisitions in order of Shock the Red Sox Nation: 1. Judge, 2. Correa, 3. Diaz, 4. Rodon.

 

The latter two -- or other top performers at their positions (ace, closer) -- should still be the first priorities, Bogey or no Bogey.

[mvp 78]

Agree, except only four or five clubs can pull it off -- if they so choose.

 

Ranking the four possible acquisitions in order of Shock the Red Sox Nation: 1. Judge, 2. Correa, 3. Diaz, 4. Rodon.

 

The latter two -- or other top performers at their positions (ace, closer) -- should still be the first priorities, Bogey or no Bogey.

 

IDK, Texas grabbed Semien AND Seager last season.

 

It just takes one owner to want to take their club out of irrelevancy. These people have the money, they just don't always want to spend it.

 

I think Diaz is the LEAST likely FA for the Sox. That guy isn't leaving NY.

[Bellhorn04]

IDK, Texas grabbed Semien AND Seager last season.

 

Yes, and then fired everybody LOL.

[mvp 78]

Yes, and then fired everybody LOL.

 

Don't give the keys to your teenage son and then get mad when he crashes your nice car.

[moonslav59]

Don't give the keys to your teenage son and then get mad when he crashes your nice car.

 

Give him the old pick-up truck.

[mvp 78]

I saw a media source in the DR state that the Sox have reached out to him about a 7 year extension and want it done soon.

 

Update:

 

@hgomez27

Can confirm. The Red Sox's offer is expected to nearly double the initial offer we reported on April 6, which was rejected by Rafael Devers. As reported by @YancenPujols , there's talk of a contract extension of at least 7 guaranteed years.

 

So 7/200ish?

[mvp 78]

Give him the old pick-up truck.

 

Whatever is the slowest.

[dgalehouse]

Folks, it's not fair to expect John Henry to keep tapping into his fortune to meet the rising costs of owning a winning team. Bogey, Raffy and the boys need your help. That's why I am asking each and every member of Red Sox Nation to donate nineteen dollars a month (that's just pennies a day). Call 1-800- OUR-BOYS. Do it NOW. If operators are busy, go online and pledge your donation to save/our/team.org. Thank you.

[mvp 78]

Folks, it's not fair to expect John Henry to keep tapping into his fortune to meet the rising costs of owning a winning team. Bogey, Raffy and the boys need your help. That's why I am asking each and every member of Red Sox Nation to donate nineteen dollars a month (that's just pennies a day). Call 1-800- OUR-BOYS. Do it NOW. If operators are busy, go online and pledge your donation to save/our/team.org. Thank you.

 

I thought that's where my mlb.tv money went?

[moonslav59]

Update:

 

@hgomez27

Can confirm. The Red Sox's offer is expected to nearly double the initial offer we reported on April 6, which was rejected by Rafael Devers. As reported by @YancenPujols , there's talk of a contract extension of at least 7 guaranteed years.

 

So 7/200ish?

 

That is encouraging and seems like a fair offer... maybe they can get him to take $200M/8.