Fire Bloom .

[Old Red]

... unless we're waiting on Sale to step in and be the savior... subjugating all Machados down to one knee, while closing out the Ws.

 

I’m not counting on Sale to be anything more than how he came back last year, and not the Chris Sale of old.

[notin]

We may see an input from the farm before the deadline, but I doubt we trade any big prospects, no matter what.

 

I'm not sure the names you mentioned get us a solid closer

 

 

Not likely to be an external move, since most teams are not sellers yet. And even the ones that know they are will wait until all offers are on the table. So they will wait until the deadline anyway. And why wouldn’t they?

[Larry Cook]

I’m not counting on Sale to be anything more than how he came back last year, and not the Chris Sale of old.

 

It is very difficult to predict how pitchers return from UCL replacement surgery.

 

Mata appears to be coming back very strong and throwing the ball really well with no decrease in pre UCL velocity,

 

Groome is probably never going to get his pre UCL velocity back and never going to develop past a Valdez type relief pitcher.

 

We have to see sale throw before we can figure out his recovery is progressing.

[dgalehouse]

So basically, the reason I encouraged the Margot-Kimbrel posts is because it's time now for Bloom to fortify the roster with an actual quality closer.

 

We all know even some of our hottest hitters will cool off eventually, and we'll start losing more games again because of the inadequate bullpen.

 

Trade from prospect strength -- whatever the Red Sox deem that is -- it may be a big bat, like Binelas or Jordan or Kavadas or Northcut... or it may be a starting pitcher from Portland or Woo; if not, promote one into the rotation and send someone good to the back end... or see if the rook can relieve, then slowly transition him into high lev.

 

If Bloom doesn't make a serious move in the next month, it means the Red Sox will most likely be sellers before August -- because this roster will be exposed in July playing the Yankees, Rays and Blue Jays 17 games in a row.

 

Trading for a closer won't be easy. Most of the top guys are on contending teams and unlikely to be dealt. I do think Houck is worth a try. And I definitely would strongly consider Sale when he is ready. What will be interesting is what will happen when Josh Hader enters free agency after next season . He is probably the best closer in the game right now , and his price will surely be high.

[Bellhorn04]

At this point I don't think anyone outside of Red Sox management knows why they're not trying Houck as closer.

[Old Red]

At this point I don't think anyone outside of Red Sox management knows why they're not trying Houck as closer.

 

Because to them playing piggyback is more important.

[Nick]

I think there is a lot of support among posters to give some young arms a shot in the pen over "journeymen" types. I will add a few things:

 

1. DHern fits the journeyman type. Plus, he's hurt and ha sucked, beyond his low OPS Against numbers.

2. Is Sawamura a journeyman? (He's been in less MLB seasons than DHern or Schreiber.)

3. This is 28 year old Scheiber's 4th MLB season. Is he a journeyman?

 

Our best OPS Against in Relief:

.384 Whitlock (currently a starter)

.392 Schreiber

.539 Strahm

.554 Vadlez

.593 Houck

.619 Danish

.645 Sawamura

.650 Davis

.658 Davis

 

How many of these are journeymen or young prospects?

.715 Robles

.762 Diekman

.908 Crawford

.935 Brasier

 

Possible pen arms to be promoted:

 

Starters to pen?

Winckowski

Seabold

Bello

Walter

Groome

Murphy

 

Pen

German

Kelly

Politi

Ort

E Bazardo

J Thompson

 

 

 

Jesus, all of you are really getting technical about each post. I guess words do matter.

 

BTW, I consider Sawamura to be a journeyman because of his experience in Japan. Maybe that's wrong on my part.

 

I'd consider every starter on Worcester roster to come pitch in the pen for us based on ineffectiveness of Sox pen. Yeah, I didn't make that clear with Winckowski.

SHOOT ME. Not perfect like many of you here. Let's gang up on Nick day.

 

I had no idea Darwinzon was struggling in the minors. My bad for opening my big mouth without little research. But if my life depended it on it, I may pick Darwinzon over couple of bullpen guys in extra inning. That's just me.

 

I see Cordero as 'sexy' ballplayer. I see Arroyo as blue collar, lunch bucket type. Each to his own. I like players with high ceiling, especially when they are young. If you think Arroyo has higher ceiling than Cordero than we have nothing to talk about. I maybe wrong but that's just me.

[notin]

At this point I don't think anyone outside of Red Sox management knows why they're not trying Houck as closer.

 

No one on this board can explain it.

 

But since Hill is starting today, Houck will pitch. The only question is when.

 

The stupidest part of the incredibly stupid piggyback strategy is Cora seems to completely ignore if Hill is doing well and tries to force reasons to bring in Houck. Hill can throw 5 no hit inning, but an infield single that rolls 30 feet down the baseline will enough to knock him out of the game…

[Bellhorn04]

No one on this board can explain it.

 

But since Hill is starting today, Houck will pitch. The only question is when.

 

Houck pitched 2 innings yesterday. Only 14 pitches, but it likely precludes the piggyback.

[Bellhorn04]

No one on this board can explain it.

 

But since Hill is starting today, Houck will pitch. The only question is when.

 

The stupidest part of the incredibly stupid piggyback strategy is Cora seems to completely ignore if Hill is doing well and tries to force reasons to bring in Houck. Hill can throw 5 no hit inning, but an infield single that rolls 30 feet down the baseline will enough to knock him out of the game…

 

But what about the third time through the order principle?

[moonslav59]

Trading for a closer won't be easy. Most of the top guys are on contending teams and unlikely to be dealt. I do think Houck is worth a try. And I definitely would strongly consider Sale when he is ready. What will be interesting is what will happen when Josh Hader enters free agency after next season . He is probably the best closer in the game right now , and his price will surely be high.

 

We need to find the next Uehara. Trading for an established closer will almost certainly NOT happen.

[moonslav59]

Jesus, all of you are really getting technical about each post. I guess words do matter.

 

BTW, I consider Sawamura to be a journeyman because of his experience in Japan. Maybe that's wrong on my part.

 

I'd consider every starter on Worcester roster to come pitch in the pen for us based on ineffectiveness of Sox pen. Yeah, I didn't make that clear with Winckowski.

SHOOT ME. Not perfect like many of you here. Let's gang up on Nick day.

 

I had no idea Darwinzon was struggling in the minors. My bad for opening my big mouth without little research. But if my life depended it on it, I may pick Darwinzon over couple of bullpen guys in extra inning. That's just me.

 

I see Cordero as 'sexy' ballplayer. I see Arroyo as blue collar, lunch bucket type. Each to his own. I like players with high ceiling, especially when they are young. If you think Arroyo has higher ceiling than Cordero than we have nothing to talk about. I maybe wrong but that's just me.

 

I didn't mean to sound like I was ripping apart your post or ideas. I actually want us to call up Seabold, German and maybe even Kelly.

 

I'd like to see Winckowski get more chances, too, but maybe not as a starter, as of now.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Not likely to be an external move, since most teams are not sellers yet. And even the ones that know they are will wait until all offers are on the table. So they will wait until the deadline anyway. And why wouldn’t they?

 

... unless someone makes a godfather offer... from which -- we'd have to assume -- the acquiring club would receive that missing link to put them over the top and secure a title.

 

Sox probably aren't quite there, yet.

 

Then again, what was the single biggest reason Boston fell two wins short of the pennant last year? (those who think "no offense the last three games" let earlier images of grand salamis obscure bad memories of the biggest weakness)

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

No one on this board can explain it.

 

But since Hill is starting today, Houck will pitch. The only question is when.

 

The stupidest part of the incredibly stupid piggyback strategy is Cora seems to completely ignore if Hill is doing well and tries to force reasons to bring in Houck. Hill can throw 5 no hit inning, but an infield single that rolls 30 feet down the baseline will enough to knock him out of the game…

 

It's not just Cora -- Hill has been getting hosed since Dave Roberts yanked him with a one-hitter in the 7th inning of a World Series game after he struck out Eduardo Nunez. Even the then President of the United States of America questioned that one...

[notin]

But what about the third time through the order principle?

 

That implies Cora lets him see the lineup two full times first…

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Jesus, all of you are really getting technical about each post. I guess words do matter.

 

BTW, I consider Sawamura to be a journeyman because of his experience in Japan. Maybe that's wrong on my part.

 

I'd consider every starter on Worcester roster to come pitch in the pen for us based on ineffectiveness of Sox pen. Yeah, I didn't make that clear with Winckowski.

SHOOT ME. Not perfect like many of you here. Let's gang up on Nick day.

 

I had no idea Darwinzon was struggling in the minors. My bad for opening my big mouth without little research. But if my life depended it on it, I may pick Darwinzon over couple of bullpen guys in extra inning. That's just me.

 

I see Cordero as 'sexy' ballplayer. I see Arroyo as blue collar, lunch bucket type. Each to his own. I like players with high ceiling, especially when they are young. If you think Arroyo has higher ceiling than Cordero than we have nothing to talk about. I maybe wrong but that's just me.

 

Nick, you're ok. Who's telling you Sawamura isn't a journeyman? His journey has spanned around the world, from the Far East to the East Coast; he's thirty-freaking-four years old already!

[Bellhorn04]

That implies Cora lets him see the lineup two full times first…

 

Batters faced by Hill in each start:

 

19

21

18

13

17

25

13 (gave up 4 runs and 7 baserunners in 2 innings)

18

 

So there's exactly one glaring example of him getting hooked before going through the order twice.

[Maxbialystock]

Jesus, all of you are really getting technical about each post. I guess words do matter.

 

BTW, I consider Sawamura to be a journeyman because of his experience in Japan. Maybe that's wrong on my part.

 

I'd consider every starter on Worcester roster to come pitch in the pen for us based on ineffectiveness of Sox pen. Yeah, I didn't make that clear with Winckowski.

SHOOT ME. Not perfect like many of you here. Let's gang up on Nick day.

 

I had no idea Darwinzon was struggling in the minors. My bad for opening my big mouth without little research. But if my life depended it on it, I may pick Darwinzon over couple of bullpen guys in extra inning. That's just me.

 

I see Cordero as 'sexy' ballplayer. I see Arroyo as blue collar, lunch bucket type. Each to his own. I like players with high ceiling, especially when they are young. If you think Arroyo has higher ceiling than Cordero than we have nothing to talk about. I maybe wrong but that's just me.

 

1. I like your posts, but don't always agree (which doesn't mean I'm right).

 

2. Arroyo vs. Cordero: I don't care about flashy or blue collar. I just want someone who can hit, and by that I mean this season. Cordero is and Arroyo isn't. Plus I like having a lefty bat in the lineup.

 

3. I have no useful thoughts on relievers--although I don't think Cora is the idiot everyone else seems to think he is.

[moonslav59]

Batters faced by Hill in each start:

 

19

21

18

13

17

25

13 (gave up 4 runs and 7 baserunners in 2 innings)

18

 

So there's exactly one glaring example of him getting hooked before going through the order twice.

 

He pitched beyond 18 batters in 24 of his 31 starts, last year, and did pretty well.

 

He ended the season with 8 straight starts facing 20 or more batters, while never allowing more than 3 ERs (0-2 ERs in 6 of those 8)

 

From May 3rd to the end of the season, Hill started 25 games. The least amount of batters he faced were:

16

16

17

19

19

19

 

Only 3 of those last 25 starts saw him not get to the 3rd time through.

[mvp 78]

He pitched beyond 18 batters in 24 of his 31 starts, last year, and did pretty well.

 

Only 3 of those last 25 starts saw him not get to the 3rd time through.

 

And yet this season:

 

His Barrel % is up 2.5%.

 

His Barrel/PA is ups 2.5.

 

His xSLG is up .120.

 

His K% is down 5%.

 

His ERA is up 1 run.

 

His xERA is in the bottom 25% of MLB pitchers.

 

His Whiff% is in the bottom 10% of pitchers.

 

He's getting Barreled in the top 5% of all pitchers.

 

His curveball, fastball, sinker, cutter and slider all have less movement than last season per Statcast.

 

This year he only has one net positive pitch per Run Value, his changeup and it's only thrown 4% of the time.

 

2022:

1st time through the order: 3.05 ERA, 688 OPS, wOBA 298, BB% 3.7%

2nd time through the order: 5.63 ERA, 835 OPS, wOBA 365, BB% 8.6%

3rd time through the order: 15.43 ERA, 1.083, wOBA 472, BB% 14.3%

[Swiharts Ghost]

Verdugo is an absolute disappointment ,the guy has a career 36 home runs and plays corner OF .Pull the plug NOW !!!! Next Franchy is at his absolute high water mark so freaking cash the hell in NOW Bloom !!!! Next Bob D is an absolute non factor and needs to be replaced by a warmer body .Next Kevin the catcher suuuuuuuuuuucks he has past his time here loooooong ago and should Be DFA tomorrow.Next Casas is middling player at AAA and may never hit enough and it’s waaaaay past time to upgrade 1B .Next offer bogey offer him 270 over 9 if he as much as stammers ??? I’m looking to trade him to the Nationals for a certain OF player ..bang on me all you want but that’s a freaking bargain the way things are going .Next Devers same as Bogey offer the guy same exact deal and if he bucks and the nationals want him vs Bogey it’s a freaking deal but we need a window to negotiate the extension with said OF that remains nameless.Next Pitching as in particular the Closer everyone is worried over .I happen to think that player is Sale for this year .Next Matty Barnes change of scenery bad contract for bad contract you figure that one out .....I think Matt should be DFA tonight or better yet a month ago .Cora I extend .Bloom either makes a serious push or he’s finished in my opinion .Chaim is over his head he’s a terrible fit for Boston .

[Maxbialystock]

Verdugo is an absolute disappointment ,the guy has a career 36 home runs and plays corner OF .Pull the plug NOW !!!! Next Franchy is at his absolute high water mark so freaking cash the hell in NOW Bloom !!!! Next Bob D is an absolute non factor and needs to be replaced by a warmer body .Next Kevin the catcher suuuuuuuuuuucks he has past his time here loooooong ago and should Be DFA tomorrow.Next Casas is middling player at AAA and may never hit enough and it’s waaaaay past time to upgrade 1B .Next offer bogey offer him 270 over 9 if he as much as stammers ??? I’m looking to trade him to the Nationals for a certain OF player ..bang on me all you want but that’s a freaking bargain the way things are going .Next Devers same as Bogey offer the guy same exact deal and if he bucks and the nationals want him vs Bogey it’s a freaking deal but we need a window to negotiate the extension with said OF that remains nameless.Next Pitching as in particular the Closer everyone is worried over .I happen to think that player is Sale for this year .Next Matty Barnes change of scenery bad contract for bad contract you figure that one out .....I think Matt should be DFA tonight or better yet a month ago .Cora I extend .Bloom either makes a serious push or he’s finished in my opinion .Chaim is over his head he’s a terrible fit for Boston .

 

I do agree about Sale as the closer this year--others also agree even though that's a lot of money to spend on a closer. But of course the money's already spent, so the trick is to get some value out of him.

 

I don't think Bogey is worth $270M, period. Devers might be, but he wants more than $270M.

 

As for the lousy players, I think Bloom will do what makes the most sense.

[JDavis76]

Verdugo is an absolute disappointment ,the guy has a career 36 home runs and plays corner OF .Pull the plug NOW !!!! Next Franchy is at his absolute high water mark so freaking cash the hell in NOW Bloom !!!! Next Bob D is an absolute non factor and needs to be replaced by a warmer body .Next Kevin the catcher suuuuuuuuuuucks he has past his time here loooooong ago and should Be DFA tomorrow.Next Casas is middling player at AAA and may never hit enough and it’s waaaaay past time to upgrade 1B .Next offer bogey offer him 270 over 9 if he as much as stammers ??? I’m looking to trade him to the Nationals for a certain OF player ..bang on me all you want but that’s a freaking bargain the way things are going .Next Devers same as Bogey offer the guy same exact deal and if he bucks and the nationals want him vs Bogey it’s a freaking deal but we need a window to negotiate the extension with said OF that remains nameless.Next Pitching as in particular the Closer everyone is worried over .I happen to think that player is Sale for this year .Next Matty Barnes change of scenery bad contract for bad contract you figure that one out .....I think Matt should be DFA tonight or better yet a month ago .Cora I extend .Bloom either makes a serious push or he’s finished in my opinion .Chaim is over his head he’s a terrible fit for Boston .

 

Ok, now the only reason the nats would trade soto is because they know they can't afford to sign him long term.

 

Now why in the world would they trade him for a lesser player who is 6 yrs older and is demanding a huge contract??!!

 

Congrats on winning dumbest post of the month and it's only June 1st.......

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Verdugo is an absolute disappointment ,the guy has a career 36 home runs and plays corner OF .Pull the plug NOW !!!! Next Franchy is at his absolute high water mark so freaking cash the hell in NOW Bloom !!!! Next Bob D is an absolute non factor and needs to be replaced by a warmer body .Next Kevin the catcher suuuuuuuuuuucks he has past his time here loooooong ago and should Be DFA tomorrow.Next Casas is middling player at AAA and may never hit enough and it’s waaaaay past time to upgrade 1B .Next offer bogey offer him 270 over 9 if he as much as stammers ??? I’m looking to trade him to the Nationals for a certain OF player ..bang on me all you want but that’s a freaking bargain the way things are going .Next Devers same as Bogey offer the guy same exact deal and if he bucks and the nationals want him vs Bogey it’s a freaking deal but we need a window to negotiate the extension with said OF that remains nameless.Next Pitching as in particular the Closer everyone is worried over .I happen to think that player is Sale for this year .Next Matty Barnes change of scenery bad contract for bad contract you figure that one out .....I think Matt should be DFA tonight or better yet a month ago .Cora I extend .Bloom either makes a serious push or he’s finished in my opinion .Chaim is over his head he’s a terrible fit for Boston .

 

Some posters may dismiss this as irrational rantings, but all perspectives are fresh reminders of the rationality of grown men and women who choose to spend their free time typing opinions on a board called Talksox about professional athletes getting paid millions to play a kid's game ...

[Bellhorn04]

Some posters may dismiss this as irrational rantings, but all perspectives are fresh reminders of the rationality of grown men and women who choose to spend their free time typing opinions on a board called Talksox about professional athletes getting paid millions to play a kid's game ...

 

Your only mistake was bringing women into it. We have one female poster, and she spends maybe 10-15 minutes a week here.

[5GoldGlovesOF,75]

Your only mistake was bringing women into it. We have one female poster, and she spends maybe 10-15 minutes a week here.

 

My bad on the plural form. She is a rare optimist, but 10-15 minutes per week are probably a safe limit when all your star players strike out swinging at balls in the dirt on the same night against the worst team in the majors.

[mvp 78]

My bad on the plural form. She is a rare optimist, but 10-15 minutes per week are probably a safe limit when all your star players strike out swinging at balls in the dirt on the same night against the worst team in the majors.

 

10-15 minutes per week is probably too much if the best someone can come up with is trade Xander for Soto.

[Old Red]

Verdugo is an absolute disappointment ,the guy has a career 36 home runs and plays corner OF .Pull the plug NOW !!!! Next Franchy is at his absolute high water mark so freaking cash the hell in NOW Bloom !!!! Next Bob D is an absolute non factor and needs to be replaced by a warmer body .Next Kevin the catcher suuuuuuuuuuucks he has past his time here loooooong ago and should Be DFA tomorrow.Next Casas is middling player at AAA and may never hit enough and it’s waaaaay past time to upgrade 1B .Next offer bogey offer him 270 over 9 if he as much as stammers ??? I’m looking to trade him to the Nationals for a certain OF player ..bang on me all you want but that’s a freaking bargain the way things are going .Next Devers same as Bogey offer the guy same exact deal and if he bucks and the nationals want him vs Bogey it’s a freaking deal but we need a window to negotiate the extension with said OF that remains nameless.Next Pitching as in particular the Closer everyone is worried over .I happen to think that player is Sale for this year .Next Matty Barnes change of scenery bad contract for bad contract you figure that one out .....I think Matt should be DFA tonight or better yet a month ago .Cora I extend .Bloom either makes a serious push or he’s finished in my opinion .Chaim is over his head he’s a terrible fit for Boston .

 

I do agree that Bloom is in over his head in Boston 100%.

[Kimmi]

Verdugo is an absolute disappointment ,the guy has a career 36 home runs and plays corner OF .Pull the plug NOW !!!!

 

I stopped reading at this point.

[Kimmi]

Your only mistake was bringing women into it. We have one female poster, and she spends maybe 10-15 minutes a week here.

 

To be fair, I used to spend a lot more time posting. I miss not having as much time to post. It's one of my favorite things to do, honestly. But I won't complain about having people and things in my life that take precedence. School is out in 2 weeks, so I'm hoping to have more time then.

 

I wish I could post while at work like a lot of you guys do. LOL