Fire Bloom .

[Kimmi]

My bad on the plural form. She is a rare optimist, but 10-15 minutes per week are probably a safe limit when all your star players strike out swinging at balls in the dirt on the same night against the worst team in the majors.

 

Frustrating game, to be sure.

 

I think it's safe to say that this team goes as our offense goes. I still don't think our season has been about the bullpen. It's been about the offense.

[Kimmi]

I do agree that Bloom is in over his head in Boston 100%.

 

Couldn't disagree more.

[moonslav59]

Couldn't disagree more.

 

Careful, you'll be accused of ganging up on the negative gang.

[Larry Cook]

I do not think Hang’em Chaim is in over his head, I think he made one bad decision concerning the back end of his bullpen.

 

If we do not blow 12 save opportunities out of 52 games (a staggering number) we are right in the middle of things and with sale and maybe Paxton back contributing next month.

[moonslav59]

I do not think Hang’em Chaim is in over his head, I think he made one bad decision concerning the back end of his bullpen.

 

If we do not blow 12 save opportunities out of 52 games (a staggering number) we are right in the middle of things and with sale and maybe Paxton back contributing next month.

 

I do agree, our pen looked weak, on paper, and counting on Sale to be healthy was a big gamble, but had we signed Iglesias, who do we not sign?

 

Wacha, Strahm and Hill?

 

Story?

 

Wacha, Diekman and Hill?.

 

Let Vaz walk and not sign Wacha?

[notin]

I do not think Hang’em Chaim is in over his head, I think he made one bad decision concerning the back end of his bullpen.

 

If we do not blow 12 save opportunities out of 52 games (a staggering number) we are right in the middle of things and with sale and maybe Paxton back contributing next month.

 

 

I think if Barnes had been able to bounce back and Sale not gotten hurt, the backend of this bullpen would have been very solid. But with the lockout, Bloom was not able to talk to Barnes or Sale to see how everything was going…

[notin]

I do agree, our pen looked weak, on paper, and counting on Sale to be healthy was a big gamble, but had we signed Iglesias, who do we not sign?

 

Wacha, Strahm and Hill?

 

Story?

 

Wacha, Diekman and Hill?.

 

Let Vaz walk and not sign Wacha?

 

They might have let Vazquez walk had they closed the deal for Stallings. (Or more likely, they would have dealt him to Miami.)

[moonslav59]

They might have let Vazquez walk had they closed the deal for Stallings. (Or more likely, they would have dealt him to Miami.)

 

The $7M on Vaz would not likely have been enough for a solid closer.

[Bellhorn04]

I do not think Hang’em Chaim is in over his head, I think he made one bad decision concerning the back end of his bullpen.

 

If we do not blow 12 save opportunities out of 52 games (a staggering number) we are right in the middle of things and with sale and maybe Paxton back contributing next month.

 

Blown saves for AL East teams:

 

Boston 12

Tampa 11

Toronto 10

NY 7

Baltimore 5

 

As you can see, it's a number that probably needs to be analyzed a bit further.

[JDavis76]

I think if Barnes had been able to bounce back and Sale not gotten hurt, the backend of this bullpen would have been very solid. But with the lockout, Bloom was not able to talk to Barnes or Sale to see how everything was going…

 

If the queen had balls she'd be the king

[Larry Cook]

I do agree, our pen looked weak, on paper, and counting on Sale to be healthy was a big gamble, but had we signed Iglesias, who do we not sign?

 

Wacha, Strahm and Hill?

 

Story?

 

Wacha, Diekman and Hill?.

 

Let Vaz walk and not sign Wacha?

 

I do not think it was an either or situation. It was an exercise in roster building:

 

Did Hang’em Chaim do the following to build his roster:

 

1.) Depth of starters - yes. I have been pleasantly surprised by how well his starters have performed.

2.) build a roster of quality position players and have depth - yes. Not Hang’em Chaim’s fault some of our guys struggled early!

3.) build a complete bullpen from innings eaters to set up men to a quality closer - no and that is his downfall. He knew the budget. He knew where the dollars should have been allocated. He chose to hope barnes could recover his form. Note to Hang’em Chaim- hope is never a good or viable strategy!

[moonslav59]

I do not think it was an either or situation. It was an exercise in roster building:

 

Did Hang’em Chaim do the following to build his roster:

 

1.) Depth of starters - yes. I have been pleasantly surprised by how well his starters have performed.

2.) build a roster of quality position players and have depth - yes. Not Hang’em Chaim’s fault some of our guys struggled early!

3.) build a complete bullpen from innings eaters to set up men to a quality closer - no and that is his downfall. He knew the budget. He knew where the dollars should have been allocated. He chose to hope barnes could recover his form. Note to Hang’em Chaim- hope is never a good or viable strategy!

 

So, you think he could have spent a lot more and chose not to?

[notin]

If the queen had balls she'd be the king

 

I assume you’re going to keep using that line until someone finds it amusing?

 

It already happened. Back in 1970…

[notin]

Blown saves for AL East teams:

 

Boston 12

Tampa 11

Toronto 10

NY 7

Baltimore 5

 

As you can see, it's a number that probably needs to be analyzed a bit further.

 

 

Not to mention saying 12 blown saves in 52 games implies all but 40 games. Without looking it up, I’m pretty sure the Sox have a game or two with multiple blown saves.

 

But some further analysis would include number of opportunities and team records in games with a blown save. Not all blown saves are losses…

[Larry Cook]

So, you think he could have spent a lot more and chose not to?

 

No, I think he had a choice of where to spend his budgeted dollars.

[moonslav59]

No, I think he had a choice of where to spend his budgeted dollars.

 

But you said you did not think it was "either or."

 

In hindsight, maybe not sign Diekman, but that gets you $4M. Who else do we not sign, so we could sign a solid closer?

 

Are you thinking trade?

[Kimmi]

I do not think Hang’em Chaim is in over his head, I think he made one bad decision concerning the back end of his bullpen.

 

If we do not blow 12 save opportunities out of 52 games (a staggering number) we are right in the middle of things and with sale and maybe Paxton back contributing next month.

 

It's interesting to note that the Rays now also have 12 blown saves. Our save % is much worse, but some of that has to do with the fact that the save and blown save stats are whack to begin with.

[notin]

It's interesting to note that the Rays now also have 12 blown saves. Our save % is much worse, but some of that has to do with the fact that the save and blown save stats are whack to begin with.

 

And blown saves themselves are just so random with how they get credited. Like in the bullpen meltdown vs Baltimore

 

Diekman comes in and surrenders a 3-run home run to one of the lightest hitters in MLB. Nothing.

 

Schreiber comes in and gives up a 2 run shot to Hays that didn’t land for 3 more days. Nothing.

 

Strahm comes in and gives up a little roller to 3b that Devers throws away - BLOWN SAVE!!

[Bellhorn04]

And blown saves themselves are just so random with how they get credited. Like in the bullpen meltdown vs Baltimore

 

Diekman comes in and surrenders a 3-run home run to one of the lightest hitters in MLB. Nothing.

 

Schreiber comes in and gives up a 2 run shot to Hays that didn’t land for 3 more days. Nothing.

 

Strahm comes in and gives up a little roller to 3b that Devers throws away - BLOWN SAVE!!

 

Rivera getting the blown save in Game 5 of the 2004 ALCS instead of Gordon is the all-time classic.

[Larry Cook]

But you said you did not think it was "either or."

 

In hindsight, maybe not sign Diekman, but that gets you $4M. Who else do we not sign, so we could sign a solid closer?

 

Are you thinking trade?

 

Yes a trade was always an option open to him.

[Maxbialystock]

It's interesting to note that the Rays now also have 12 blown saves. Our save % is much worse, but some of that has to do with the fact that the save and blown save stats are whack to begin with.

 

Finally, finally, a truth speaker. I love it when a great closer like Uehara works his magic, especially in the postseason, but I also can't forget what a dingus Kimbrel was in the 2018 postseason when he got 6 saves with an ERA over 5.

[Larry Cook]

Finally, finally, a truth speaker. I love it when a great closer like Uehara works his magic, especially in the postseason, but I also can't forget what a dingus Kimbrel was in the 2018 postseason when he got 6 saves with an ERA over 5.

 

Saves may be an artificially manufactured stat, but being on the wrong end of a walk off is really hard.

[Maxbialystock]

I do not think Hang’em Chaim is in over his head, I think he made one bad decision concerning the back end of his bullpen.

 

If we do not blow 12 save opportunities out of 52 games (a staggering number) we are right in the middle of things and with sale and maybe Paxton back contributing next month.

 

Meh. The Sox started the season with two closers, Barnes and Robles, both of who have proved worthless. So has everyone else in the bullpen who tried to close. But the real point, which moonslav has stated and kimmi has implied, is that the bullpen as a whole is weak--and don't forget you don't have to wait until the 9th inning to get a blown save.

 

The fact is that these days you really need a slew of good relievers, with 2 or 3 who can close, to have a reliable bullpen.

[Larry Cook]

Meh. The Sox started the season with two closers, Barnes and Robles, both of who have proved worthless. So has everyone else in the bullpen who tried to close. But the real point, which moonslav has stated and kimmi has implied, is that the bullpen as a whole is weak--and don't forget you don't have to wait until the 9th inning to get a blown save.

 

The fact is that these days you really need a slew of good relievers, with 2 or 3 who can close, to have a reliable bullpen.

 

As I posted earlier, Hang’em Chaim seems to have huge issues with differentiating between electric stuff and below average stuff!

[Old Red]

Finally, finally, a truth speaker. I love it when a great closer like Uehara works his magic, especially in the postseason, but I also can't forget what a dingus Kimbrel was in the 2018 postseason when he got 6 saves with an ERA over 5.

 

What is the Red Sox record when they were either tied, or had a 1,or 2 run lead in the 8th, 9th, or 10 inning? Those were the bad losses.

[Maxbialystock]

Saves may be an artificially manufactured stat, but being on the wrong end of a walk off is really hard.

 

On the other hand, as I keep saying (ad nauseum), last year the Sox had a terrific postseason before losing the ALCS to the Astros, 4 games to 2. In their 6 wins, the Sox had 0 saves. In their 5 losses, they had one blown save--in the 6th freaking inning. In the glorious 2018 postseason, Kimbrel got 6 saves with an ERA of 5.19 because the hitters and the rest of the bullpen gave him a good margin for whenever he trotted to the mound to do his act.

 

Here are runs scored by the Sox in their 27 losses thus far this season: 5, 2, 1, 4, 3, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 5, 0, 1, 5, 0, 2, 1, 2, 3, 1,4, 1, 8, 2, 0, 1.

 

And here the the runs scored by the Sox when they won 27 games: 4, 5, 9, 4, 8, 2, 4, 7,3, 4, 9, 7, 11, 6, 5, 12, 7, 6, 8, 16, 16, 5, 12, 7, 7, 8, and 5.

 

And that's Kimmi's point. The Sox won 21 times when they scored 5 or more runs. They lost 20 games when they scored 3 or fewer runs.

[Old Red]

On the other hand, as I keep saying (ad nauseum), last year the Sox had a terrific postseason before losing the ALCS to the Astros, 4 games to 2. In their 6 wins, the Sox had 0 saves. In their 5 losses, they had one blown save--in the 6th freaking inning. In the glorious 2018 postseason, Kimbrel got 6 saves with an ERA of 5.19 because the hitters and the rest of the bullpen gave him a good margin for whenever he trotted to the mound to do his act.

 

Here are runs scored by the Sox in their 27 losses thus far this season: 5, 2, 1, 4, 3, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 5, 0, 1, 5, 0, 2, 1, 2, 3, 1,4, 1, 8, 2, 0, 1.

 

And here the the runs scored by the Sox when they won 27 games: 4, 5, 9, 4, 8, 2, 4, 7,3, 4, 9, 7, 11, 6, 5, 12, 7, 6, 8, 16, 16, 5, 12, 7, 7, 8, and 5.

 

And that's Kimmi's point. The Sox won 21 times when they scored 5 or more runs. They lost 20 games when they scored 3 or fewer runs.

 

How many of those 20 loses did they have a lead in the 8th, 9th, and 10 inning?

[moonslav59]

How many of those 20 loses did they have a lead in the 8th, 9th, and 10 inning?

 

Well, we are 26-5 when leading going into the 9th.

 

We are 23-4 when leading into the 8th.

 

A team can never be leading going into the 10th. (We are 1-6 in the 10th, but you rarely use your traditional closer when tied.)

[Old Red]

Well, we are 26-5 when leading going into the 9th.

 

We are 23-4 when leading into the 8th.

 

A team can never be leading going into the 10th. (We are 1-6 in the 10th, but you rarely use your traditional closer when tied.)

 

We were leading 2-0 going into the bottom of the tenth, but my point all along has been when we were either tied, or ahead by 1, or 2 runs in the 8th, and 9th inning has not been good.

[moonslav59]

We were leading 2-0 going into the bottom of the tenth, but my point all along has been when we were either tied, or ahead by 1, or 2 runs in the 8th, and 9th inning has not been good.

 

OK. You asked ab out being ahead, and that's when traditional closers are used- usually when the game is close.

 

I don't think 23-4 and 26-3 is all that bad. It's not great, either, but it's not bad.

 

We do suck when we're tied. 3-4 in 8th, 0-5 in 9th, 1-6 in 10th, 0-1 in 11th.

 

Here is a look at other current playoff track teams

 

Ahead in 8th:

30-0 NYY

27-0 HOU

26-1 TOR

24-2 TBR

27-3 MIN

23-4 BOS

 

Ahead in 9th

31-0 NYY

31-0 HOU

28-1 TOR

27-1 MIN

24-2 TBR

26-3 BOS

 

Tied in 8th

7-3 NYY

5-3 HOU

4-3 TBR

3-4 BOS

3-6 TOR

2-3 MIN

 

Tied in 9th

4-2 NYY

4-3 TBR

2-2 HOU

2-2 MIN

2-4 TOR

0-5 BOS

 

Tied in 10th

2-1 NYY

1-1 HOU

1-2 TOR

1-2 MIN

1-6 BOS

 

Nobody is doubting we have had serious issues in the 8th, 9th and 10th, but I'm not sure it's as bad as you make it out to be. 26-3 with the lead in the 9th is pretty close to everyone else. It's just 1, 2 or 3 more losses than others and just 3 from perfection.