Fire Bloom .

[Bellhorn04]

Stork always adds 2 years to every Sox prospect’s age. No idea why. Maybe just trying to remove doubts about his adding ability?

 

As I've said, STORK never lets facts get in the way.

[Bellhorn04]

What is the Red Sox record since Vaz was traded? You can’t blame 3-6 on his play calling, so it must be the 2 backup catchers the Red Sox are using, and their play calling.

 

We sucked before he was traded and we suck after he was traded.

[moonslav59]

We sucked before he was traded and we suck after he was traded.

 

It was two months of a decent player for 2 promising prospects. We should have traded more rentals- not less!

[moonslav59]

But Vaz was the team leader! He led them to an 8-19 record the last month before he was traded.

 

I keep bringing that up.

 

Why cling to "team leaders" that led us into a hole?

 

If they are good, fine, but what leadership plus skills are they showing, now?

 

Crying and pouting about Vaz being traded, because the team sucks?

[JDavis76]

As I've said, STORK never lets facts get in the way.

 

At least he doesn't write a 3K word essay to spin the facts to suit his agenda.....

[Old Red]

I keep bringing that up.

 

Why cling to "team leaders" that led us into a hole?

 

If they are good, fine, but what leadership plus skills are they showing, now?

 

Crying and pouting about Vaz being traded, because the team sucks?

 

I agree with you 100%. Bloom, and Cora are the team leaders, so why cling to them?

[notin]

What is the Red Sox record since Vaz was traded? You can’t blame 3-6 on his play calling, so it must be the 2 backup catchers the Red Sox are using, and their play calling.

 

The Sox were 39-37 in games started by Vazquez behind the plate this year.

 

Of course, at one point, they were 3-6 in those games…

[JDavis76]

It was two months of a decent player for 2 promising prospects. We should have traded more rentals- not less!

 

That's rich considering you were the one spewing the "one game at a time" mantra and posting the WC standings.

 

Flip flopper.....

[JDavis76]

I agree with you 100%. Bloom, and Cora are the team leaders, so why cling to them?

 

Bingo!!

[Old Red]

We sucked before he was traded and we suck after he was traded.

 

Moon just doesn’t like Vaz, and has disdain for him. Moon’s boy toy(Kike) sucked from day 1, and helped the team get off to that 10-19 record. It has been pretty much a team effort from top to bottom.

[Old Red]

That's rich considering you were the one spewing the "one game at a time" mantra and posting the WC standings.

 

Flip flopper.....

 

Not only flip flopped, but patted himself on the back in the process.

[JDavis76]

Not only flip flopped, but patted himself on the back in the process.

 

For sure!!

[Old Red]

It was two months of a decent player for 2 promising prospects. We should have traded more rentals- not less!

 

Duran, and Jeter Downs were once promising prospects/suspects, so promising most times don’t add up with good results.

[Bellhorn04]

It was two months of a decent player for 2 promising prospects. We should have traded more rentals- not less!

 

It certainly looks that way now. But I think the article by Speier laid it out pretty well. Bloom decided he was only going to trade JD or Eovaldi if they were offered a big return, and it didn't happen.

[Bellhorn04]

That's rich considering you were the one spewing the "one game at a time" mantra and posting the WC standings.

 

Flip flopper.....

 

It doesn't take long for things to go sour in this game, though.

[Old Red]

It doesn't take long for things to go sour in this game, though.

 

It didn’t really go sour, but that June was more fantasy, and the rest of the months have turned out to be the real deal.

[Bellhorn04]

It didn’t really go sour, but that June was more fantasy, and the rest of the months have turned out to be the real deal.

 

That's one way to look at it. The AL East has kicked us all year, no question about that.

 

The injuries were pretty brutal too. Especially Sale, Eovaldi (still not 100%), Wacha, Story, and Kike. And obviously those guys being injured exposed our lack of depth and other flaws.

[JDavis76]

It doesn't take long for things to go sour in this game, though.

 

I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy.

[Old Red]

That's one way to look at it. The AL East has kicked us all year, no question about that.

 

The injuries were pretty brutal too. Especially Sale, Eovaldi (still not 100%), Wacha, Story, and Kike. And obviously those guys being injured exposed our lack of depth and other flaws.

 

They definitely had their share of injuries, and then some, and not only that but all seemed to drag on a lot longer than first expected.

[Bellhorn04]

I was merely pointing out the hypocrisy.

 

Why is it necessarily hypocrisy? Why isn't it just the mood swings of a season where the Sox went from leading the Wild Card to the front office throwing in the towel on the season in about a month?

[jung]

They definitely had their share of injuries, and then some, and not only that but all seemed to drag on a lot longer than first expected.

 

Not convinced they had more than their share though. 162 game seasons are brutal and either you have enough depth to mitigate "your share" of injuries or you don't.

 

In fairness, I do not see the depth in organizations that I was used to seeing decades ago. Nobody has that any more from what I can see. Narrowly focusing on a combination of power hitting and pitchers spent after 3 innings has more downsides than what we can see within the dynamics of a single game. They have an impact over the entire season and over the entire organization.

[JDavis76]

Why is it necessarily hypocrisy? Why isn't it just the mood swings of a season where the Sox went from leading the Wild Card to the front office throwing in the towel on the season in about a month?

 

Because now he acts like he was all for being sellers at the deadline when the reality is he wasn't.

 

He was still spouting the "one game at a time" nonsense.

[Hugh2]

Nobody has the depth to overcome a certain threshold of injuries. You don’t stash Aces, and premium bats in the minors. It’s debatable to what extent but to some extent the Sox injuries were just too much too much to overcome. That gets lost in a lot of this noise

[moonslav59]

Why is it necessarily hypocrisy? Why isn't it just the mood swings of a season where the Sox went from leading the Wild Card to the front office throwing in the towel on the season in about a month?

 

Shades of '78.

[jung]

Nobody has the depth to overcome a certain threshold of injuries. You don’t stash Aces, and premium bats in the minors. It’s debatable to what extent but to some extent the Sox injuries were just too much too much to overcome. That gets lost in a lot of this noise

 

Thats not actually the point. Each organization has about 280 players. Probably 150 of those are everyday players. Ask if they have a guy that can lay down a bunt ANYWHERE in the contemporary baseball organization. Most often the answer will be NOPE. How many can play a position competently, let's say just a hair over average. I would say maybe 50 including the guys on the major league 26.

[Hugh2]

Thats not actually the point. Each organization has about 280 players. Probably 150 of those are everyday players. Ask if they have a guy that can lay down a bunt ANYWHERE in the contemporary baseball organization. Most often the answer will be NOPE. How many can play a position competently, let's say just a hair over average. I would say maybe 50 including the guys on the major league 26.

 

So what you’re saying is the majority of those 280 players can not add value at the MLB level? That was my point.

[notin]

Nobody has the depth to overcome a certain threshold of injuries. You don’t stash Aces, and premium bats in the minors. It’s debatable to what extent but to some extent the Sox injuries were just too much too much to overcome. That gets lost in a lot of this noise

 

I keep hearing it’s an excuse and every team has them…

[moonslav59]

I keep hearing it’s an excuse and every team has them…

 

We ]had a few years with relatively low injuries, but this one was more than the norm, not even counting Sale & Paxton, who were expected to miss a lot of time.

 

Missed starts:

23+ Paxton

21+ Sale

10+ Wacha

6 Nate

6 Hill

 

Pen time on IL:

Houck, Whitlock and just about every other RP'er

 

Everyday games missed:

60+ Kike

50+ Arroyo

30+ Story

10+ Devers, JD, Refsnyder

5+ several players

 

 

 

[notin]

Thats not actually the point. Each organization has about 280 players. Probably 150 of those are everyday players. Ask if they have a guy that can lay down a bunt ANYWHERE in the contemporary baseball organization. Most often the answer will be NOPE. How many can play a position competently, let's say just a hair over average. I would say maybe 50 including the guys on the major league 26.

 

So you’re saying teams have depth but not depth that can play baseball?

[moonslav59]

How about all the depth we had for the 60 game season of 2020?

 

19 players got 4 or more PAs, 17 had 45 or more.

Chavis was 7th in PAs.

Pillar 8th.

Peraza 9th.

11 Plawecki

12 Arauz

14 Lin

17 Munoz (on pace for 120 PAs, which is more than Refsnyder has, this year)

 

30 players pitched, including Plawecki & Peraza.

27 pitchers had 4+ IP.

19 had 10+ IP, not counting Workman (6.2)& Hembree (9.2), who were traded.

15 had 14+ IP, whic h projects to over 36 IP on a full season.

15 of our 18 top IP pitchers were named (in order of most IP): Perez, Weber, Valdez, Mazza, Godley, Brewer, Brasier, Springs, Brice, Osich, Covey, Kickham, Stock, Walden & Hart! Some depth! (And people blamed Bloom for not being able to turn that staff around on a $40M total winter spending budget!)

 

With all the injuries, this year, we've had...

23 pitchers 5+ IP

21 with 11+

16 with 25+

14 with 31+

12 with 43+

 

We have had 18 players with 25+ PAs

14 with 109+

 

The killers on offense?

 

#2 in PA w .705 OPS: Verdugo

#5 w .713: Story

#7 w .651 Bobby Dee

#8 w .578 JBJ

#9 w .660 Cordero

10. w .613 Kike

11. w .680 Duran

13. w .503 Plawecki